Metamorph Alchemist + Discoveries


Rules Questions


So, the Metamorph Alchemist's description is a little lacking when it comes to saying what discoveries they can or cannot take. Would I be correct in assuming that they can take any discovery that does not effect class features they don't have like bombs or other alchemy abilities like extracts?
TL;DR: Can Metamorph Alchemists take discoveries like Chameleon and other flavorful discoveries that would presumably also work with their shapechanging abilities so long as they don't require alchemy?

EDIT: Also, since the Metamorph doesn't technically get spell slots or really have a caster level, how does the Wings discovery work for them? Do their levels count as caster levels even though they don't get spells since the base class being modified gets spells or is the whole thing moot and they can just sprout wings and gain a fly speed via shapechanging? and


1. A metamorph can take any discovery for which they meet the prerequisites, but if a discovery's only benefit is dependent on having alchemy or bombs, it won't really benefit them.

2. It doesn't. Alchemy is the feature that lets an alchemist use their caster level for things other than brewing potions. Without a caster level, the metamorph can use wings for 0 minutes per day. If you want wings, you'll have to either talk your GM into allowing it anyway (probably not a big deal with most GMs, including me), use shapechange's monstrous physique option, or use one of the myriad other ways of gaining wings.

3.

Quote:
and

Oh no! erasedisknow must have died while writing that post!


blahpers wrote:
Alchemy is the feature that lets an alchemist use their caster level for things other than brewing potions. Without a caster level, the metamorph can use wings for 0 minutes per day.

Good thing the only polymorph form you need has a fly speed!


blahpers wrote:

3.

Quote:
and
Oh no! erasedisknow must have died while writing that post!

No. I was just on my phone while writing this and must have accidentally autocompleted an and while going for the submit button.


Derklord wrote:
blahpers wrote:
Alchemy is the feature that lets an alchemist use their caster level for things other than brewing potions. Without a caster level, the metamorph can use wings for 0 minutes per day.
Good thing the only polymorph form you need has a fly speed!

That is disgusting. X D

Grand Lodge

Derklord wrote:
blahpers wrote:
Alchemy is the feature that lets an alchemist use their caster level for things other than brewing potions. Without a caster level, the metamorph can use wings for 0 minutes per day.
Good thing the only polymorph form you need has a fly speed!

Whoo boy, that creature is ridiculous. It's probably a good thing PFS banned that creature from polymorph choices...


Depends on what you use it for. Metamorph gives up 6/9 casting, bombs, and can't use the Wings discovery, I think being able to both fly and pounce is the least it should get - Deathsnatcher is all but mandatory to make the archetype not suck. Somethign like a Brown-Fur Transmuter casting it on some Barbarian or something is an entire different topic...

Oh, and when the alternatives are Popobala, Tikbalang, Rokurokubi, Calikang, Vouivre, Derhii, and Gegenee, having a polymorph form that you can actually pronounced is like a godsend! It also makes the character look cool, while the alternative is a very weird man-horse-thing.

­
Also, it's not even in the same league of cheesyness as Great Old One Yig, (add Strong Jaw and the bite attack's damage is literally off the chart, although easy to predict). Yig's biggest problem is actually that you can expect every other player and GM to come up with the "you can't turn into an individual creature!!1" argument, even though that line is only about appearance and not form selection.


Derklord wrote:
Somethign like a Brown-Fur Transmuter casting it on some Barbarian or something is an entire different topic...

( ゚ Д゚)


What, you don't like the idea of a Barbarian polymorphed into a Deathsnatcher, with an additional gore attack from Lesser Fiend Totem, maxed out accuracy from Rage and Reckless Abandon (with Power Attack, obviously), 1d6 bonus damage on all 8 (with Haste) attacks from Elemental Rage, and maybe another 1d6 from rage cycling Lesser Elemental Rage?


Derklord wrote:
What, you don't like the idea of a Barbarian polymorphed into a Deathsnatcher, with an additional gore attack from Lesser Fiend Totem, maxed out accuracy from Rage and Reckless Abandon (with Power Attack, obviously), 1d6 bonus damage on all 8 (with Haste) attacks from Elemental Rage, and maybe another 1d6 from rage cycling Lesser Elemental Rage?

A craft construct focused BFT, who uses it on their golems. So scary.

Shadow Lodge

Warning on the metamorph: I retired mine after level 7 because it was so broken overpowered.


gnoams wrote:
Warning on the metamorph: I retired mine after level 7 because it was so broken overpowered.

Ehh, Doesn't really get particularly strong until level 9 (pounce), and is somewhat weak below level 5.

I wouldn't say they're THAT strong. Lots of other classes can be equally strong around that time, as well as be useful for more than just combat.

They're a cool class, but reasonably well balanced; perhaps even a bit weak.

Quote:
Do their levels count as caster levels even though they don't get spells since the base class being modified gets spells or is the whole thing moot and they can just sprout wings and gain a fly speed via shapechanging?

Officially/RAW, Wings won't do anything. Any reasonable person should allow it. Overall it's a moot point because like you said one would just shapechange into a creature that can fly in the first place


Joesi wrote:
I wouldn't say they're THAT strong. Lots of other classes can be equally strong around that time, as well as be useful for more than just combat.

You're both right and wrong. Metamorph is fairly limited when it comes to out-of-combat utility, although less so than most martial characters. In combat, archers and melees with pounce will be ahead, but the full attack damage (and later pounce damage) is pretty extreme, and higher than most martials'. From 5th level on to pretty high levels, a Deathnsatcher-Metamorph can kill an average monster of CR equal to their level in on round.

Of course, Metamorph is hit pretty hard by damage reduction, and by facing a multitude of weaker enemies (as normal for a melee). Metamorph also has a weak base will save and no innate boosts, so they need to invest into patching that up (on the other hand, they don't need many feats for combat prowess).

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder RPG / Rules Questions / Metamorph Alchemist + Discoveries All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.