Bloodline Arcana & Powers and Wizard spells


Rules Questions


It maybe because it is late or because I have been looking at Sorcerer Bloodline Powers and Arcana for far too long but, either way, I need your help

This particular arises from the idea of a Sorcerer 1/Exploiter Wizard X (with Bloodline Development) multiclass.

Arcane Bloodline

Arcana works with Wizard spells?

Does
Metamagic Adept?
School Power
Arcane Apotheosis

Astral Bloodline

Arcana works with Wizard spells

Does Peerless Speed?


FAQ wrote:

Sorcerer: Do the bonuses granted from Bloodline Arcana apply to all of the spells cast by the sorcerer, or just those cast from the sorcerer's spell list?

The Bloodline Arcana powers apply to all of the spells cast by characters of that bloodline, not just those cast using the sorcerer's spell slots.

General rule: If a class ability modifies your spellcasting, it applies to your spells from all classes, not just spells from the class that grants the ability. (The exception is if the class ability specifically says it only applies to spells from that class.)


willuwontu wrote:
FAQ wrote:

Sorcerer: Do the bonuses granted from Bloodline Arcana apply to all of the spells cast by the sorcerer, or just those cast from the sorcerer's spell list?

The Bloodline Arcana powers apply to all of the spells cast by characters of that bloodline, not just those cast using the sorcerer's spell slots.

General rule: If a class ability modifies your spellcasting, it applies to your spells from all classes, not just spells from the class that grants the ability. (The exception is if the class ability specifically says it only applies to spells from that class.)

Okay thank you so

Peerless Speed

"At 3rd level, you can tap into the power of the Astral’s enhanced magical nature to gain the ability to accelerate your spellcasting dramatically.

Once per day as a swift action, you can cast one cantrip you know as though it were augmented by the Quicken Spell metamagic feat, without altering the cantrip’s level.

At 5th level and every 2 levels thereafter, the maximum level of the spell you can augment with this ability increases by 1, to a maximum of an 8th-level spell at 19th level. If you use this ability while on the Astral Plane or on any plane whose enhanced magic trait allows you to cast a spell as if augmented by Quicken Spell, you can instead choose to augment the spell as though you had applied the Empower Spell or Maximize Spell metamagic feats instead."

It doesn't specify Sorcerer spells so I can use it with Wizard spells

Shadow Lodge

Probably, but you have to have the Sorcerer levels to pull it off. So to quicken a 1st level wizard spell you'd need to be a Sorcerer 5/Wizard 1.


Dragonborn3 wrote:
Probably, but you have to have the Sorcerer levels to pull it off. So to quicken a 1st level wizard spell you'd need to be a Sorcerer 5/Wizard 1.

No I don't

"At 1st level and every 4 levels thereafter, the exploiter wizard gains a single arcanist exploit. The exploiter wizard uses his wizard level as his arcanist level for determining the effects and DCs of his arcanist exploits."

The Bloodline Development

"If the arcanist already has a bloodline (or gains one later), taking this exploit instead allows her arcanist levels to stack with the levels of the class that granted her access to the bloodline when determining the powers and abilities of her bloodline."


Yep, that works.

One level of sorcerer with astral bloodline changes the bloodline development exploit such that instead exploiter wizard levels stack with those of sorcerer to determine astral bloodline powers. So a sorcerer 1/exploiter X can use peerless speed as a sorcerer (X + 1) to cast either sorcerer or wizard spells. Might not be a bad tradeoff for losing a level of casting progression.


blahpers wrote:

Yep, that works.

One level of sorcerer with astral bloodline changes the bloodline development exploit such that instead exploiter wizard levels stack with those of sorcerer to determine astral bloodline powers. So a sorcerer 1/exploiter X can use peerless speed as a sorcerer (X + 1) to cast either sorcerer or wizard spells. Might not be a bad tradeoff for losing a level of casting progression.

I am assuming it only works with the prepared spells that day?


Yes. Peerless speed doesn't lift any limitations related to casting spells other than casting time, so any such limitations continue to apply.


I'm just throwing out an opinion here. What this creates is a half-powered Arcanist.

A 1 level dip takes away the advantage of being a wizard and slows your progression down to the level of an arcanist. You get half of the exploits and lack some of the arcanists abilities, but you get a full bloodline.

Wizard could care less about most bloodline spells since they can get the full wizard spell list.

OP is trading all of that for a once a day Quickened spell. While a Metamagic Rod of Quicken is horribly expensive, it is something that gold alone can do. Gold won't make up for everything else OP has given up to do this trick.

This is better than combining Sorcerer and Arcanist to do the same thing. If you did that it would be a whole 2 levels behind a Wizard's spell progress.


Meirril wrote:

I'm just throwing out an opinion here. What this creates is a half-powered Arcanist.

A 1 level dip takes away the advantage of being a wizard and slows your progression down to the level of an arcanist. You get half of the exploits and lack some of the arcanists abilities, but you get a full bloodline.

Wizard could care less about most bloodline spells since they can get the full wizard spell list.

OP is trading all of that for a once a day Quickened spell. While a Metamagic Rod of Quicken is horribly expensive, it is something that gold alone can do. Gold won't make up for everything else OP has given up to do this trick.

This is better than combining Sorcerer and Arcanist to do the same thing. If you did that it would be a whole 2 levels behind a Wizard's spell progress.

Unfortunately your opinion is based on the reduced information I have provided. I provided the reduced information to ease the complexity of the question so that I may receive a simple answer

I am planning a Crossblooded Sorcerer (Arcane&Astral) 1/Pact Exploiter Wizard X

And with uncertainity as to how Peerless Speed works and interacts, I was unable to determine which bloodline power would be more beneficial at 3rd level; Metamagic Adept or Peerless Speed


I have somebody arguing I cannot, and as it is counter to what was agreed here I thought I would post so that you can either counter or revise your answers

"Once per day as a swift action, you can cast one cantrip you know"

Emphasis mine. You don't know wizard spells, you learn and prepare wizard spells.


Minigiant wrote:

I have somebody arguing I cannot, and as it is counter to what was agreed here I thought I would post so that you can either counter or revise your answers

"Once per day as a swift action, you can cast one cantrip you know"

Emphasis mine. You don't know wizard spells, you learn and prepare wizard spells.

That's a somewhat silly argument, but in any case the Core Rulebook says clearly that wizards do know spells.

A wizard may know any number of spells.
CRB: Magic wrote:
A wizard can use a borrowed spellbook to prepare a spell he already knows and has recorded in his own spellbook, but preparation success is not assured.


Yup. Wizards know spells. The distinction between "spells known" and "spells recorded in their spellbook" matters only on rare occasions. One of the situations in which it does matter is the one Fuzzy-Wuzzy cited above--when attempting to prepare a spell from a borrowed spellbook after their own spellbook has been lost or destroyed. If the wizard knows the spell and has previously recorded it in their spellbook, they can attempt to prepare it from a borrowed spellbook. If not, they cannot.

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