Dragons are honestly less horny and more radioactive.
Dragonness spreads just by being around them
... I don't get it? -__-
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... I don't get it? -__-Dragons are honestly less horny and more radioactive.
Dragonness spreads just by being around them
He's saying draconic heritage and dragon-blood magic just happens by sheer presence and less direct ****ing. Essentially a draconic sorcerer is irradiated by the aura of a dragon being near his village, not because a dragon boned his great-great granny... I think I got that right?
He's saying draconic heritage and dragon-blood magic just happens by sheer presence and less direct ****ing. Essentially a draconic sorcerer is irradiated by the aura of a dragon being near his village, not because a dragon boned his great-great granny... I think I got that right?... I don't get it? -__-Dragons are honestly less horny and more radioactive.
Dragonness spreads just by being around them
Hah hah hah! Nice! Now I get it! XD
Sorry guys but "spreads" didn't register, always had trouble understanding the concept ^___^
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I kind of figured the ability to crossbreed with literally everything was really the shtick of Outsiders and dragons (dragons in particular aren't picky with some of the weird half-dragons floating around).Dragons are notorious in the whole Great Beyond for being horny beasts who like doing the nasty.
One of my former GMs ran a 3.5 game set in a homebrew island with a huge dungeon. There was an ancient white dragon that lived in the dungeon and was almost as old as the dungeon itself, and we kept running into various half-white dragon things include a half-white dragon hydra and other creatures.
When we noticed the theme and mentioned it to the GM, he commented that out of all of the materials he'd written for the dungeon, possibly his favorite thing was a timeline of the dragon's life cross referenced with the various creatures she had created half-breeds with based on her size category. XD
Even in 1e planetouched were available to all races. Heck in Starfinder there is picture of shirren ifrit in dawn of flame
I know but its rarely been shown in art of lore. Even though books like Blood of angels clearly wtite non-humans can be aasimar (in fact I think there is a halfling aasimar in said book). Either its just my hopes. Know its not gonna be that way.
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I kind of figured the ability to crossbreed with literally everything was really the shtick of Outsiders and dragons (dragons in particular aren't picky with some of the weird half-dragons floating around).Dragons are notorious in the whole Great Beyond for being horny beasts who like doing the nasty.
My group frequently jokes about this. We have a saying: "Dragons will <mate with> anything." That's the sanitized version, it's probably easy to tell what word to substitute for the bit in the angle-brackets. It gets used often whenever weird half-dragons and dragon-descended things are around... Ok, now I just got this idea of a horny little wyrmling creating a group of half-dragon squirrels. Dragon-Squirrels! That's so absurd, it's awesome! Because as everyone knows, everything's nuttier with squirrels. They obviously like their nuts dry-roasted. Also a dragon-squirrel could be an adorably insane familiar.
Humans mostly can just breed with elves and orcs (which makes it weird that in Golarion, aparently Orcs and elves aren't compatible with each other, which also opens up weird questions like can a half-orc and an elf breed? Or a half-elf and full orc? Or half-elf and half-orc? Can elves have orcs in their bloodline, and vise versa, but only with a few part human ancestors in there to bridge the gap? Are humans the missing link between elf and orc?)That way lies madness, Herr Doktor. You shouldn't treat an arbitrary conceit spawned by half-remembered bits of fantasy literature in a decade famous for its abundant use of drugs and pretend it makes sense in a very real, scientific, genetic kind of way.
Well I am a mad Doktor after all.
But actually it's interesting. I'd say, as long as it doesn't become ridiculous at your table it works. At mine, the half-orc and the elf couldn't breed, nor the half-elf and the orc, but the half-elf and the half-orc could and would bear either a half-elf or an half-orc, so half-elves can have orcish ancestors, for sure.
Yeah, I'd totally allow the half-orc/half-elf pairing to work. I'm honestly not sure how'd I'd go with half-orc/full elf or half-elf/full orc. I actually had an issue with this with a draft background of a recent character of mine. I decided to go completely out of my comfort zone, so I did a female, elf full-caster (arcanist in this case). All three things I normally don't do, casters because I hate vancian casting and the complexity is a bit much, elf because I've gotten turned off by the whole "Elves are perfect beings, better than you in every way, and total jerks who always remind you of it" trope, and female because I'm male, and just found it a bit awkward to go the other way (I really don't want to be That Guy who does the hyper-sexualized female characters all the time). Well anyway, while working out what she's been doing with her 136 years before becoming a 1st level PC, I had an idea of her falling in love with a half-orc man and living as a couple for his natural life. There was the question "Why no kids?" And that really brought up the question of is it even possible. I eventually discarded the idea because Dead Husband just didn't fit with the happy free-spirit concept I wanted to play, and having kids would complicate that as well. But the question of possibility still is unanswered.
There are other unanswered pairings too. Like can a Kitsune interbreed with a human? I think possibly yes, their human form is, well human. I'm currently GMing a game with a Kitsune PC in it, and the player takes the opposite view, they look human but are really a forest spirit creature. Both seem valid. And I'm assuming that all the planetouched count as the ancestry for these purposes. Same with Dahmpir, and I'd think Changeling, but I'm less sure here. I understand that Paizo probably doesn't want to print an interbreeding chart, because that gets into squicky territory. But it is setting info that would be nice to know. As it is, we basically have to infer based on what shows up in the setting and what doesn't.
And actually, really interesting: are humans the missing link? In a sense. We're certainly a middle ground between the 2 ancestries. As for the official setting, maybe not even JJ knows...
... OR DOES HE? (Dum dum dum!!)
There are some interesting story possibilities here. Maybe Golarion humans are decended from elves in some way and orcs created form humans. Orvian tinkering would be a good explanation for the human to orc part. And how do Lashunta fit into this? They share a planet and physical characteristics with elves, are they related? Can they interbreed? Well, that's probably more than enough about reproduction in fantasy races for now.
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IIRC Bastards of Golarion had stuff about the unorthodox mixing of blood
You're right:
Why are there no half-dwarves?
Although humans can have children with many other races, there are limits to this gift. Half-dwarves, half-gnomes, half-halflings, and numerous other combinations are all but unheard of on Golarion. Biological incompatibility is the first and foremost reason that such half-races cannot exist. Simply put, dwarves, gnomes, and others just aren’t compatible with other races, even humans.
In a realm shrouded in magic, it would be foolish to assume no spell in the known multiverse could produce a viable child between a dwarf and a humanoid of another race. Indeed, dwarven aasimars and gnome tieflings are known to exist, arising through the influence of outsiders or because of magical anomalies understood by few. A miracle or wish spell could likewise result in the birth of a half-dwarf, though the individuals able or willing to practice such spellcraft are few and far between.
Also, there's a chapter listing all the myriad heritages a human can have, even when the "race" would still register just as human: aasimar, changeling, dhampir, elf, fetchling/kayal, fey, gillfolk/Low Azlanti, half-dragon, ifrit, mongrelfolk, ogrekin, orc, oread, skinwalker, skum, suli, sylph, tiefling, undine... I bet humans can have children with even more creatures.
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IIRC Bastards of Golarion had stuff about the unorthodox mixing of bloodYou're right:
Also, there's a chapter listing all the myriad heritages a human can have, even when the "race" would still register just as human: aasimar, changeling, dhampir, elf, fetchling/kayal, fey, gillfolk/Low Azlanti, half-dragon, ifrit, mongrelfolk, ogrekin, orc, oread, skinwalker, skum, suli, sylph, tiefling, undine... I bet humans can have children with even more creatures.Why are there no half-dwarves?
Although humans can have children with many other races, there are limits to this gift. Half-dwarves, half-gnomes, half-halflings, and numerous other combinations are all but unheard of on Golarion. Biological incompatibility is the first and foremost reason that such half-races cannot exist. Simply put, dwarves, gnomes, and others just aren’t compatible with other races, even humans.
In a realm shrouded in magic, it would be foolish to assume no spell in the known multiverse could produce a viable child between a dwarf and a humanoid of another race. Indeed, dwarven aasimars and gnome tieflings are known to exist, arising through the influence of outsiders or because of magical anomalies understood by few. A miracle or wish spell could likewise result in the birth of a half-dwarf, though the individuals able or willing to practice such spellcraft are few and far between.
Ah. That's quite a bit more extensive than I was thinking. Although a lot of those are part human races like skinwalkers and planetouched, while some of the others are descended from humans, like mongrelfolk and gillfolk (presumably Caligni, Munarvi and possibly even Morlocks also are compatible). Fey, dragons and outsiders seem compatible with everyone.
Elves - Human -Orc breeding isn't that much of an oddity. Ring Species are a thing in real life in which certain sub-groups can interbreed but only within a limited number of "steps"
I wasn't aware of those, but it does make sense. Due to the evolutionary links involved, it does also support my idea of Humans Elves and Orcs (and apparently Skum and Ogres) are related. I do think there is some potential for prehistoric weirdness. Alien elves coming and creating hybrids of them and apes, giving rise to humans. Orvians mutating Orcs off of human stock. Skum maybe created by aboleths, Elder Things or Star Spawn (they did fill the role of deep ones, until Deep Ones were introduced as their own thing in Bestiary 5. So having a Mythos origin makes sense). Ogres... a wizard did it? I don't know, maybe some of these already have explanations of their origins and I just haven't read it. Also, I suspect halflings have some human connection, their origins are mysterious. I do like the idea that they might be a human offshoot. Perhaps descended from something like Homo floresiensis (famously nicknamed Hobbits due to the popularity of the LotR movies at the time). But whatever their connections, halflings are too distant now an not genetically compatible (I suspect in part because half-haflling and quarterling would be silly names).
Here's my take on it, treat it like half elf and half orc but with a tiny change.
You choose your ancestry, say Tiefling. Then you choose your heritage which is based on the type of fiend you are related to. Then you get a 1st level racial feat however you only have 1 option and said feat makes you choose another heritage.
Each planetouched heritage also has a feat path you can take or you can take feats from your other ancestry.
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I wasn't aware of those, but it does make sense. Due to the evolutionary links involved, it does also support my idea of Humans Elves and Orcs (and apparently Skum and Ogres) are related. I do think there is some potential for prehistoric weirdness. Alien elves coming and creating hybrids of them and apes, giving rise to humans. Orvians mutating Orcs off of human stock. Skum maybe created by aboleths, Elder Things or Star Spawn (they did fill the role of deep ones, until Deep Ones were introduced as their own thing in Bestiary 5. So having a Mythos origin makes sense). Ogres... a wizard did it? I don't know, maybe some of these already have explanations of their origins and I just haven't read it. Also, I suspect halflings have some human connection, their origins are mysterious. I do like the idea that they might be a human offshoot. Perhaps descended from something like Homo floresiensis (famously nicknamed Hobbits due to the popularity of the LotR movies at the time). But whatever their connections, halflings are too distant now an not genetically compatible (I suspect in part because half-haflling and quarterling would be silly names).
I'm no authority, and info is scarce, but apparently elves were among the first great civilizations on the surface, with cities and everything related while we were hunter-gatherers. Orcs were as they are now when Earthfall hit and they were driven up by the dwarves. I don't think elves had a hand in creating humans, because they had so little contact with orcs and seemed to see humans as something that was already there.
Aboleths recount they were the ones who created humans, and it would fit with their interest in Azlant, but we don't have word of god for this (although I imagine if that weren't true, why would the aboleths lie in their own tales and art? They don't strike me as that much in denial).
Orvians could in theory have mutated orcs out of humans, there's no real obstacle to that theory... at the same time orcs are said to have been barely more than beasts in the beginning and to have learned the use of tools from dwarves. But we don't have a timeframe.
Skum/Ulat-kini were created by aboleths through fleshwarping as a servitor race from human slaves. So maybe the aboleths created us but made the mistake of making us too free-willed, and then adjusted their fire. And maybe they also created orcs, then abandoned them because they were still not what they wanted.
Ogres are apparently the interbreeding of giants and humans very far back in time.
Halflings were noticed by elves before Earthfall, but we don't know where they come from/who or what made them.
It is said that xiomorns created many species in Orv, analogously to what aboleths were doing in the oceans (so maybe dwarves and orcs were actually created by xiomorns). Then we have anunnaki and elohim, but anunnaki tend to only uplift species (which could be seen as the creation of a new species, effectively), while elohim usually create demiplanes in the astral plane (and both - but maybe mostly elohim?- can do what they want in the First World, as long as the gods and the Eldest allow it).
So... yeah, it's complicated. And enigmatic. It would be interesting if the devs gave us some pointers and hints in future products, but the chances of that seem to me vanishingly lacking...
What I think, from what we have seen until now, is that Golarion is very much a pulp setting with a lot of horror, so I think that alien, inhuman creatures creating the common ancestries like humans fits in rather well with the big picture.
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Here's my take on it, treat it like half elf and half orc but with a tiny change.
You choose your ancestry, say Tiefling. Then you choose your heritage which is based on the type of fiend you are related to. Then you get a 1st level racial feat however you only have 1 option and said feat makes you choose another heritage.
Each planetouched heritage also has a feat path you can take or you can take feats from your other ancestry.
I think at PaizoCon they all but announced that aasimar and tieflings will be heritages, but they haven't said whether aasimar/tiefling will be whole heritages or each flavor of them will actually be a different one (musetouched, lawbringer, pitborn, hellspawn, motherless...).
So we could have a general aasimar heritage, then you choose your kind of aasimar, and choose feats related to general aasimar *or* that kind of aasimar *or* your regular ancestry.
The same applies to ifrit, undines and so on - I remember there being some optional differences in 1e for efreeti-born ifrit and salamander-born ifrit, for instance.
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Xa Hoi really needs to be written up to delve into Dragon-Human shenanigans and varied results of that.
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Here's my take on it, treat it like half elf and half orc but with a tiny change.
You choose your ancestry, say Tiefling. Then you choose your heritage which is based on the type of fiend you are related to. Then you get a 1st level racial feat however you only have 1 option and said feat makes you choose another heritage.
Each planetouched heritage also has a feat path you can take or you can take feats from your other ancestry.
I think at PaizoCon they all but announced that aasimar and tieflings will be heritages, but they haven't said whether aasimar/tiefling will be whole heritages or each flavor of them will actually be a different one (musetouched, lawbringer, pitborn, hellspawn, motherless...).
So we could have a general aasimar heritage, then you choose your kind of aasimar, and choose feats related to general aasimar *or* that kind of aasimar *or* your regular ancestry.
The same applies to ifrit, undines and so on - I remember there being some optional differences in 1e for efreeti-born ifrit and salamander-born ifrit, for instance.
You are correct in that Erik, Jason, and Logan (if memory serves) all strongly implied that the reason heritages are the way they are is because in the future they can implement heritages that are compatible with multiple ancestries. No word on the specific different denizens, but I imagine flavoring through feats would work for the samey outsiders. The significantly different outsiders could have their own heritages (beyond just Aasimar and Tiefling).
You are correct in that Erik, Jason, and Logan (if memory serves) all strongly implied that the reason heritages are the way they are is because in the future they can implement heritages that are compatible with multiple ancestries. No word on the specific different denizens, but I imagine flavoring through feats would work for the samey outsiders. The significantly different outsiders could have their own heritages (beyond just Aasimar and Tiefling).Here's my take on it, treat it like half elf and half orc but with a tiny change.
You choose your ancestry, say Tiefling. Then you choose your heritage which is based on the type of fiend you are related to. Then you get a 1st level racial feat however you only have 1 option and said feat makes you choose another heritage.
Each planetouched heritage also has a feat path you can take or you can take feats from your other ancestry.
I think at PaizoCon they all but announced that aasimar and tieflings will be heritages, but they haven't said whether aasimar/tiefling will be whole heritages or each flavor of them will actually be a different one (musetouched, lawbringer, pitborn, hellspawn, motherless...).
So we could have a general aasimar heritage, then you choose your kind of aasimar, and choose feats related to general aasimar *or* that kind of aasimar *or* your regular ancestry.
The same applies to ifrit, undines and so on - I remember there being some optional differences in 1e for efreeti-born ifrit and salamander-born ifrit, for instance.
Nice to know I'm not the only one remembering something of the sort!
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although I imagine if that weren't true, why would the aboleths lie in their own tales and art? They don't strike me as that much in denial
These are the same aboleths that accidentally nearly wiped themselves out because they were moderately annoyed with the way humans were acting. Deluding themselves into thinking they're more untouchable and more influential than they really are fits pretty well.
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although I imagine if that weren't true, why would the aboleths lie in their own tales and art? They don't strike me as that much in denialThese are the same aboleths that accidentally nearly wiped themselves out because they were moderately annoyed with the way humans were acting. Deluding themselves into thinking they're more untouchable and more influential than they really are fits pretty well.
... Not a bad observation.
Here's a link pertaining to the conversationhttps ://paizo.com/products/btq022bc/discuss?Pathfinder-Advanced-Players-Guide this book supposedly contains tieflings changelings and so on I'll let you read the page for yourself
Same.I like the idea of Aasimar as an ancestry where the heritages are things like Angelkin, Musetouched, etc. than I do with Aasimar as a heritage or archetype available for any ancestry.This is my preference by far.
Me too!
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that can be represented by ancestry feats, makes more sense for them to be universal heritages.
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I agree.