Do you want versatility in terms of your spells or versatility in what your character can do outside of combat
I am playing a Crossblooded Sorcerer/Rogue/Arcane Trickster Blaster, that pardon the pun, is a blast. Only a 1 level dip into Rogue, and the reduction in spells is not great but, I can do all the Roguey stuff too
Not the best option, but a fun curveball would be a Half-Orc Silksworn Occultist. The Silksworn isn't quite a full caster, but plays much like one, giving up the things that make gishy play viable in exchange for a large amount of extra implement usage. Half-Orcs get an FCB that increases their damage with their implement powers, and Evocation has a power that is essentially just fireball, so... You can do pretty good damage with it.
In terms of versatility your skill set is pretty fantastic since you're pumping Int and Cha above all else, and you don't really have to worry about going down any sort of particular elemental path since you determine the damage type of your implement power when you cast it. Not to mention you still have access to all the other Occultist implements, which can give quite a bit of utility and party friendliness.
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I would recommend the Arcanist then. They make for great casual blasters and in a pinch you can swap spells out with the Quick Study exploit.
Something to consider is that while Conjuration is king in terms of battlefield control, evocation is actually a really good school for CC as well. Burst of radiance for blinding, wall of fire, wall of force, Volcanic Storm, sirocco- they're all great CC spells. Evocation isn't JUST damage.
So that all being said, picking up greater spell focus(evocation), potent magic, quick study, maybe a familiar, you have plenty of tools to work with to be both a good blaster and a good generalist. For feats I would pick up extra reservoir, some metamagic feats, Spell Focus, and if you invest in the Cha, Eldritch heritage isn't a bad option either. But if you plan on spending reservoir points on every spell (particularly using Potent Magic) then I suggest getting the Extra Reservoir feat a couple of times.
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The most impressive blaster build I have seen is the Blockbuster Wizard. And as far as versatility, well, you're a Wizard.
If Metamagic is being mentioned, Arcane Bloodline Sorceror should be as well,
as it it at least of one masters of it, with DC boost, free actions, and further +2 DC School boost.
At least starting to come "on-line" around mid-levels where you are starting as well, which helps.
If you get GM or other experienced player to help with spell selection you won't have much to worry about.
Pages/Ring/Vest to increase Spells Known will be major help in adaptability,
and after all it's not like you need to buy lots of Armor/Weapons so why not buy some Spells Known?
(also remember just regular scolls, for the many spells where Caster Level and/or DC aren't critical to effect)
I think Arcanist can be great, but maybe not best for a newbie to casters who doesn't want to constantly worry about swapping Spells Known around, since it basically combines Sorc & Wizard spell selection dynamics.
Go with the Arcanist.
Arcanist is an option, but I'd always go back to Blockbuster Wizard as a guide and move on from there.
If you want versatility, don't touch Crossblooded. It's only good if you want to be a one-trick pony with the strongest possible trick, and is simply bad if you value having broad options. Just use a single good bloodline, and add Blood Havoc if your GM allows it. I personally like Primal Elemental the best for a standard blaster build, but there are plenty of great options. Heck, with blood havoc you can get away with pretty much any bloodline even those without damage boosts.
The Sorcerer can have a very diverse spell list without sacrificing his specialization if you build towards that. The human favored class bonus gives you additional spells known, and you can qualify for it with any race that can get the human subtype. This includes elemental races such as Sylph or Ifrit by using their "pass for human" alternate racial trait to add the subtype. The additional spells known causes Sorcerer to have an absolutely huge number of options. At 10th level you'll have eight 1st level spells, seven 2nd level spells, six 3rd level spells, and four 4th level spells. While you don't have the flexibility of a Wizard or Arcanist, with that many spells known it often doesn't matter.
You'll want to put your feats towards blasting, with staples such as Spell Focus and Spell Specialization, metamagic, and of course the Magical Lineage trait. Your other spells don't really need feat investment, and you'll only need a handful of blasting spells known freeing you up to select a broad variety of spells.
Nothing wrong with Wizard or Arcanist if you prefer them. They aren't as good at blasting as the Sorcerer, but they're still decent at it and if you prefer their casting style they're perfectly fine choices.
The most impressive blaster build I have seen is the Blockbuster Wizard. And as far as versatility, well, you're a Wizard.
A BW with the Fast Study discovery enjoys the best of both worlds: high power, and any spell he needs at a minute's notice.
Blasting Sorceror don’t really lack versatility looking at mine doing the draconian thing + havoc and going for perfect spell, let me tell you what resources are dedicated to blasting.
1 trait
My bloodline
Two bloodline powers
9 feats including bloodline feats
And 6 spells.
My point being, you still have a free trait, You still have 4 feats and most importantly 28 spells. If this was a human you get potentially another feat and plenty more spells.
If you can’t enhance your versatility to a satisfactory degree with 5 feats and 30+ spells then your problem isn’t being a blaster.
That said, I kind of think the Sorc blaster builds can be a bit overwhelming if done properly. Especially with a level 7 start.
The fun thing with a level 7 start is a lot of painfully slow starting characters are off the ground by that point as such I echo the support for the Silksworn Occultist. I would definitely go with that or a Bone Oracle Necromancer but that’s more my own fascination.
Maybe it’d be worth making a thread of how to use a Silksworn. I’m sure you’d gain some useful insight.
Consider the "Blood Arcanist" Archetyoe:
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/arcanist/archetypes/paizo-a rcanist-archetypes/blood-arcanist/
Take the Orc bloodline with the "Blood Havoc" Mutation
Blood Arcanist does not qualify for Blood Havoc, and even if he does qualify for it (for instance, by dipping Sorcerer) Arcanist spells do not benefit from it. Bloodline mutations are hard locked to the Sorcerer and Bloodrager, and do not function for other classes even if they have a bloodline.
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Look at Blood Havoc. It specifically states it only works with Bloodrager or Sorcerer spells. While your Acanist levels count as Sorcerer levels, your Arcanist spells don't count as Sorcerer or Bloodrager spells. Taking Spell Focus doesn't help because they are still from the Arcanist class, not Sorcerer.
Precisely, and if you look at the general rules for bloodline mutations they have the same clause, so only Bloodragers and Sorcerers qualify in the first place to take them.
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My experience with casters in pathfinder:
Me: cast spell, roll touch attack, I hit!
GM: roll SR
Me: rolls die, 30!
GM: it penetrates, what's the save?
Me: will DC 26
GM: rolls d20+27. I rolled a 2 so that's a 29, it saves, no effect.
Me: crumples up character sheet, tosses over shoulder, rerolls a martial.
As a caster you have to be OK with the fact that even after min maxing your character to the best possible save DC for your level, there will be many enemies against which you have less than a 5% chance to land a spell on. Especially at higher levels where enemy save modifiers will range from +3 to +35, touch ACs will be in that same wide range, and many things will have high spell resistance as well. You could land in a game where all your enemies are humanoids with class levels and your GM hates you for being so op, nothing can save against your stupid high DCs he says, or you end up in a game with mainly big monsters and you haven't had any effect since level 5.
Do you think the same thing applies to a Variant Multiclassing Wizard/Sorcerer? (Wizard base)
Wizard VMC Sorcerer would qualify to take bloodline mutations because she treats her wizard level as her sorcerer level for the purposes of all bloodline powers. However, her Wizard spells still aren't Sorcerer spells so even though she qualified for the mutation she wouldn't be benefit from it.
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If your new to full casting classes. Starting one at level 7 will be extremly hard. As at this point you will need to know what saves to target. Most monsters at this level have saves high enough to over come most spells unless you are targeting there low save. This is something you could have learned by playing up to level 7 and above.
My suggestion is to say away from any caster where your limited on what spells you have available. This is not because there not good. This is because you don't have enough experience with what spells you need. If you do go with that type of class. Make sure you have a spell at each level that targets one of the three saves. Do not make a character that only targets one save.
Best classes for new casters: Wizard, and Witch. With the strongest schools being Wizard (Transmutation, Conjuration) Witch (Necromancy, Conjuration)
Some points for a new caster.
1: Spell DC are every thing! Starting with max casting stat is not important at low level play. At this level it will make a huge difference.
2: SR is a thing you will need to get past. Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration will not be wasted feat's.
3: Metamagic feat's some are much better then others. Persistent Spell is the only one I make sure to take. See my first point.
4: Have a good idea on what save you want to target vs. what your fighting. This is going to be critical as you advance in level past 12. Almost no monster past this point has to roll above a 2 on there good save to make it.
My experience with casters in pathfinder:
Me: cast spell, roll touch attack, I hit!
GM: roll SR
Me: rolls die, 30!
GM: it penetrates, what's the save?
Me: will DC 26
GM: rolls d20+27. I rolled a 2 so that's a 29, it saves, no effect.
Me: crumples up character sheet, tosses over shoulder, rerolls a martial.As a caster you have to be OK with the fact that even after min maxing your character to the best possible save DC for your level, there will be many enemies against which you have less than a 5% chance to land a spell on. Especially at higher levels where enemy save modifiers will range from +3 to +35, touch ACs will be in that same wide range, and many things will have high spell resistance as well. You could land in a game where all your enemies are humanoids with class levels and your GM hates you for being so op, nothing can save against your stupid high DCs he says, or you end up in a game with mainly big monsters and you haven't had any effect since level 5.
1) a spell having to hit, SR and a save attached is very very rare. (Not never but rare)
2) it would be extremely unusual for anything on your CR to be passing saves against an optimised spell 95% of the time and possibly indicates GMs inflating saves.
For example a monsters good save at CR10 according to the CR monstar building guidelines should be around 13 if your DC is 14 at level 10 you deserve to fail.
At CR 20 it’s 22. When your good DC should be around 30 and a pumped one could be around 34-36 range easily. Now they do go higher than this but they shouldn’t be going too much higher regularly.
3) casters should whenever possible have spells to target every save, yes monsters will have a good save, but they will also have a s!@@ one almost all the time.
Versatility? Be a Shaman, or a False Priest Sorcerer.
Shaman are one of the worst casters out there. There spell selection prevents them from being a good full caster. There special ability's don't really help as they don't help you as a caster.
Are you familiar with arcane enlightenment and the human favored class bonus?
But it’s hard to beat the blasting of certain sorcerer bloodlines. No other classes get such strong blasting options.
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I double checked Arcane Enligntenment. This is ok but you have to devide your ability scores. To ensure you have enough Cha to make it worth the investment. Somthing most other casters do not need to do. It is also very specific type of Shaman not a genral statement.
In the end Wizard/Witch > Shaman is still the out come.
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The witch spell list is pretty bad too. Most of its "good" spells can be done better by its hexes. And it has almost no good spells that can target reflex saves.
Shaman stats aren't as hard to come by as you may think, with headbands for raising multiple stats and a hex for crafting wondrous items. And being that you'll only have a few spell slots of your highest level anyway, then even a 14 charisma would be enough to have the best 2 of the wizard spells of your spell level.
Also, it may not have occured to you that Arcane Enlightenment can be taken as a wandering hex, meaning you can change your wizard spell choices out every day. That's honestly too OP in my opinion, but it's stayed that way through multiple remarks and errata, so it must be intentional.
It's still not the best "blaster", but it can be one of the strongest "casters" in the game.
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Shaman (human or half-humans) can get select spells from the wizard and cleric spell list in addition to their own, getting Arcane Enlightenment as a wandering hex and using favored class bonus to learn cleric spells. You can build a diverse caster this way. Example: You can learn cloudkill from arcane enlightenment and have communal delay poison as a spell you can prepare from the cleric spell list. Or learn Spectral Hand to deliver Bestow Curse from a safe distance. There's all sorts of combinations you can do with that.
I would still use the False Priest archetype for the added versatility it provides.
There are multiple Bloodlines that benefit blasters.
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Gnome (Race Trait: Pyromaniac)
Sorcerer Bloodline Draconic (Any that deal fire damage.)
Trait: Unseen but Not Undone
Feat's
1: Spell Focus Evocation
3: Greater Spell Focus Evocation
5: Elemental Spell (Metamagic) (Fire)
7: Intensified Spell (Metamagic)
9: Spell Penetration
11: Greater Spell Penetration
13: Widen Spell (Metamagic)
Ok I feel like for my first time it might be Easier to go Sorcerer But I really like the wizard one ability to change damage type as i like fire but like its been said its the most commonly one enemies are stong Against
So what would be a good level 7 build for a sorcerer blaster?
Assume any book is allowed
You can go cross-blooded and choose elemental with either draconic or orc. Choose a non-fire element, since there are so many fire spells, and then you can choose between your elemental bloodline damage type or the spell’s native damage type every time you cast.
PS: You could still go with fire, but you’d be stuck with the fire spells that are given to you as fire only.
So what would be a good level 7 build for a sorcerer blaster?
Assume any book is allowed
Bloodline: Wildblooded Primal Elemental (Fire)
Race: HumanTraits: Magical Lineage (Fireball), +1 of your choice
Feats: Spell Focus (Evocation), Greater Spell Focus (Evocation), Spell Specialization (Fireball), Spontaneous Metafocus (Fireball), +1 metamagic of your choice
Bloodline Mutation: Blood Havoc (replace Elemental Ray), Blood Intensity (replace 7th level bloodline feat)
Using the human favored class bonus to expand the number of spells known, you have a total of 3 spells known at 3rd, 6 spells known at 2nd, and 8 spells known at 1st (that includes your bloodline spell). Just throwing a possible list off the top of my head:
3rd (3): Fireball, Haste, Protection from Energy
2nd (6): Blindness/Deafness, Create Pit, Glitterdust, Mirror Image, Invisibility, Scorching Ray
1st (8): Burning Hands, Charm Person, Feather Fall, Mage Armor, Grease, Obscuring Mist, Shield, Silent Image
At higher levels add in more metamagic feats and eventually spell perfection, and you'll be good to go.
My experience with casters in pathfinder:
Me: cast spell, roll touch attack, I hit!
GM: roll SR
Me: rolls die, 30!
GM: it penetrates, what's the save?
Me: will DC 26
GM: rolls d20+27. I rolled a 2 so that's a 29, it saves, no effect.
Me: crumples up character sheet, tosses over shoulder, rerolls a martial.As a caster you have to be OK with the fact that even after min maxing your character to the best possible save DC for your level, there will be many enemies against which you have less than a 5% chance to land a spell on. Especially at higher levels where enemy save modifiers will range from +3 to +35, touch ACs will be in that same wide range, and many things will have high spell resistance as well. You could land in a game where all your enemies are humanoids with class levels and your GM hates you for being so op, nothing can save against your stupid high DCs he says, or you end up in a game with mainly big monsters and you haven't had any effect since level 5.
Yea, that was largely my experience as well. Hence why my next spellcaster I'm prepping, I'm focusing more on support and field control.
The vast majority of offensive spells are Save(Negates), which completely sucks. Those that aren't are usually Save(Half), and are evocation spells that then allow evasion and elemental resistances to come negate the tiny reduced damage. Often my AoEs would total less damage than a fighter's first attack, and he would land many per turn.
Imo, that was bad design in 3.x, which 4e had largely improved, but PF just retook as is. Debuffs, namely, should not be Save(Negates). I don't even think they should offer a save at all, in many cases. Bestow Curse requires an attack roll, allows a save to negate, and is susceptible to SR. All of that for... a debuff. Meanwhile, buffing always works, is almost always optimal, and is also pretty damn boring.
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Yeah, even at level 17 the most effective thing to do as a caster was usually cast haste on all the martials. That does of course depend on your party, but the last spellcaster I played was a sorceress for crimson throne in a group with a barbarian, swashbuckler, rogue, and priest of gorum. So I could cast my highest level spell, horrid wilting dc28 for 17d6, which of course everything saved on a 2 and took ~30 damage each, or I could haste the party and they would deal way more than that.
So I could cast my highest level spell, horrid wilting dc28 for 17d6, which of course everything saved on a 2 and took ~30 damage each, or I could haste the party and they would deal way more than that.
17d6 [average 59.5] from an 8th level spell slot is exceedingly weak, and is a good reason why conventional caster builds seldom waste actions on direct damage. Blaster builds employ a significant amount of feat and class feature investment to overcome those problems, and a standard fireball sorcerer build at these levels can get 1.5*(15d6+30) [avg 123.75] from a 3rd level slot by combining bloodline arcana, blood havoc, intensified spell, empowered spell, magical lineage, and spell perfection. That leaves plenty of room to add on a Maximized or Quickened spell on top of that, potentially exceeding 300 damage in an area of effect in a single turn. And if you do encounter a monster with +26 reflex saves or fire immunity, you're still a Sorcerer with a full suite of options you can call upon spontaneously.
17CR good saves are around 20 based on the monster creation chart, so even if they were high fort targets (which is likely, given fort is the most commonly high save.) you still shouldn’t be seeing things save on a 2. Unless you were under CR.
What’s more you should and with a Sorc, easily could be targeting enemies weak saves.
Also as Dasrak said, that’s a pretty sad way of blasting with a Sorc. That’s a level 8 spell slot, if you’re not built for blasting there are better spells. You could be hitting them with Maze, Euphoric Tranquility, Irrisitable dance or scintillating pattern to target a will or no save at all.
Or again do as Dasrak says and build for damage.
You for best single target build for Battering blast or for multi target chain lightning.
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If, as a level 17 full caster, the "best" thing you have to do is cast Haste on the party or use a bad damage spell, then you are absolutely doing full caster wrong.
Even as a very basic option, something like Persistent Dazing Fireball exists. Double reflex save (DC 24ish?) or else take 10d6 and daze for 3 rounds. Very effective, can be done at level 10 (with the Persistent Spell feat and a Dazing rod), and puts the majority of combats into cleanup mode for the martials at the table. And that's assuming you've put no other investment into this plan. And assuming your plan as a full caster is to hurt things.
You for best single target build for Battering blast or for multi target chain lightning.
Battering Blast is a good choice, but Julius indicated the build is for 7th level so Chain Lightning isn't going to be available for a long time and would be unwise to lock into. Chain Lightning is the strongest elemental AoE spell to lock into at higher levels, but the options for lightning spells are very limited at low levels and it's a long time to wait to benefit from magical lineage.
Battering Blast is a good choice, but Julius indicated the build is for 7th level so Chain Lightning isn't going to be available for a long time and would be unwise to lock into. Chain Lightning is the strongest elemental AoE spell to lock into at higher levels, but the options for lightning spells are very limited at low levels and it's a long time to wait to benefit from magical lineage.
You for best single target build for Battering blast or for multi target chain lightning.
True, and no denying it’s a long wait and a big commitment. But you don’t need magical lineage to be effective before that point, it makes you better sure but it ain’t essential.
With the combo of Orc and blood havoc there is no need to element lock if the options aren’t attractive.
+ people played blaster sorcs fine before bloodhavoc so losing out on the bloodline damage bonus occasionally for coverage on blast spells should still be fine. Since we now have blood havoc to make up the difference,
Edit: and like I said my recommendation goes to Silksworn anyway.
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Blaster Arcanist guide for you.
Nice guide and starting at level 7 does help mitigate how painfully low power arcanists are at the start of the game.
Personally I think they’re my list fave class at level 1
Nice guide and starting at level 7 does help mitigate how painfully low power arcanists are at the start of the game.
Personally I think they’re my list fave class at level 1
Not sure what you mean by that. Now, of course there are archetypes, like the occultist, that are extra strong at level 1. But even the standard arcanist is pretty good at level 1, if you pick a decent exploit. Take quick study to be the most versatile. Or take dimensional slide for easily getting to hard to reach places and away from dangerous enemies.
Now, if you're talking about pouring the arcanist into a blaster mold, then it may be a little low power at low levels. The main problem of the arcanist is a shortage of spells per day compared to a sorcerer or optimized wizard. But if you aren't talking about blasting, the arcanist is very powerful.
I’m talking about the fact it gets wizards amount of spells per day and the sorcerer spell progression rate.
Meaning in the worst levels to be a wizard or a Sorc due to lack of spells, it has even less spells. In my experience it’s just agonising.