Could Use some Advice on making an Effective yet flavorful Kineticist (Pyromancer)


Advice


I Think I know what I'd like to play

A Pyromancer of some sort
and I have come to The Kineticist class

only Trouble I have no Idea how Play one Mechanically
RP Wise I Want to play (not the Typical Hot Head Fire User)

Race no clue Just want one that gives a good bonus but can still be flavor full

Also could use feat Advice

Not sure what level where starting but it should be between 3 & 5


So mostly you want a concept which is consistent with being a low-level pyrokineticist? Maybe an artist who finds fire beautiful. That concept is looking at a high Dex and probably some Cha; maybe an ifrit. Or some dragon-cultist who seeks to emulate his patrons - more Con there. Humans and kobolds are more likely that most to go for weird dragon cults. Or a smith (perhaps a dwarf) who found the forge-fire listening to them one day.

You'll want draining infusion because that covers most (not all) of the fire-immune enemies, and point blank shot and precise shot because those are all but necessary to a kineticist. At level 3 that leaves you an infusion and a wild talent to choose, both level 1. Where you go from there depends on your concept.


avr wrote:

So mostly you want a concept which is consistent with being a low-level pyrokineticist? Maybe an artist who finds fire beautiful. That concept is looking at a high Dex and probably some Cha; maybe an ifrit. Or some dragon-cultist who seeks to emulate his patrons - more Con there. Humans and kobolds are more likely that most to go for weird dragon cults. Or a smith (perhaps a dwarf) who found the forge-fire listening to them one day.

You'll want draining infusion because that covers most (not all) of the fire-immune enemies, and point blank shot and precise shot because those are all but necessary to a kineticist. At level 3 that leaves you an infusion and a wild talent to choose, both level 1. Where you go from there depends on your concept.

Well the Dwarf Idea sounds fun

But so Dose the Ifrit

Also Would having a Melee weapon be a bad idea?
I kinda like the idea of a Katana like sword for the ifrit

Grand Lodge

Well your stats are going to be Con>Dex>Wis>Int>Cha=Str

With fire kineticists you have to consider the common resistance and immunity you’ll face. Having some way to deal with those threats is something you’ll have to look in to.

Weapon finesse is needed if you want to utilize Kinetic Blade and get into melee

Point blank shot and precise shot are needed for ranged use. You’re going against touch ac so you’ll almost always hit.

You’ll want Fire’s Fury talent as it will help you with damage output. Keep in mind Kinetic Blade does not add your elemental overflow damage to damage but with fires fury you do. Regular blasts add 2x your bonus to damage so with fires fury you’re at a total 3x your overflow bonus. If you also go Half Orc and put your favored class bonus at every level, you effectively gain 4x overflow bonus. So a 3rd level half orc with 1 burn and 18 Con deals 2d6+7 damage on their blast, or 2d6+4 on a kinetic blade (2 from 1/2 Con, 2 from Elemental Overflow, 1 from PBS, 1 from Fires Fury, and 1 from fvd class bonus)

When you get expanded element I strongly encourage taking Earth as your element in order to have an alternative attack to use against a foe with high resistance or immunity. Physical blast able to deal any of the three types of damage, no SR, meshes well with the Fire elements. When you get your third selection going Fire again is a really good option.

Good talents to pick up would be extended range, penetrating infusion, flame jet, eruption, smoke storm, Wall. Ride the blast (especially if you go Kinetic Blade route)

As for feats beyond already mentioned, you don’t need much else. Iron will is good to pick up, as will saves are your worst save. Once you can, picking up Extra Wild Talent is better than most other feats you can take. After hitting bab +11 getting improved precise shot helps a lot with accuracy.


If you get the kinetic blade infusion you can make it a katana made of fire. A steel katana has the problem that you have 3/4 BAB, simple weapon proficiency only, no class features which help & no other reason to invest much in Str. You might get kinetic blade as your second level 1 infusion and Syries is right, fire's fury is your natural level 1 wild talent for the combat bonus even if elemental whispers might be fun.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

JuliusCromwell wrote:

I Think I know what I'd like to play

A Pyromancer of some sort

The straightforward answer is to play a Sorcerer with the Draconic bloodline; and then take staple spells like Scorching Ray and Fireball. It both deals more damage and has much better utility than a pyrokin.

Grand Lodge

avr wrote:
... Syries is right, fire's fury is your natural level 1 wild talent for the combat bonus even if elemental whispers might be fun.

Fire's Fury is a wasted effort at 1st level... it adds Elemental Overflow to a Fire blast, but you don't get EO until 3rd level. Try taking Extended Range instead.

Note that Fire is an energy attack. If you want to stay all energy, at 7th level you expand into Water/Cold. As both of these will bounce off of Spell Resistance, you want to take the Spell Penetration & Greater SP feats starting at around level 7.

Grand Lodge

Any time you run into a devil, demon, fire elemental, efreet, red dragon, or any other myriad of creature that’s immune to or has high resistance to fire you’re going to have a hard time in a fight. There are options but your damage is severely slashed. Fire is almost all focused on offense- one of the few combat abilities you can use is smoke storm

A good reason to go physical blast like earth is also for when you fight anything immune to magic or has high SR.

Edited with corrections


Syries wrote:

Any time you run into a devil, demon, fire elemental, efreet, red dragon, or any other myriad of creature that’s immune to fire you’re out of luck in a fight. Fire is almost all focused on offense- one of the few combat abilities you can use is smoke storm

A good reason to go physical blast like earth is also for when you fight anything immune to magic or has high SR.

Devils are really the only common enemy that fully stonewall full pyromancers. Virtually every other enemy natively immune to fire (and demons only resist fire natively, not sure where you're reading they're immune) is also fire subtyped and thus eligible for draining infusion meaning you can still do some okay work on them beyond mobile smokescreening.

Grand Lodge

Actually, I was surprised by the number of non-fire, non Outsider creatures I ran into that were immune to fire.

Spoiler:
Including a lot of undead in the later Mummy's Mask books.

This is why I advised the Fire/Water shift at 7th level. Also Kinetic Healer, Wall & Suffocate.

The plan for Outsiders was to get a +1 Bane Outsider [Evil] light crossbow, as that covers the majority of all outsiders you will run into.

Grand Lodge

You’re right, there are some options but honestly the easiest workaround is to simply pick up a physical element. Fire can still be the primary focus particularly if you have more con than Dex, which this build would have. But when high SR, high resistance or immunity comes up, having a physical blast will be the option to deal the most damage, and that’s typically what the kineticist is built to do.

Edited my previous post with corrections.

Grand Lodge

Egil Firehair wrote:

Actually, I was surprised by the number of non-fire, non Outsider creatures I ran into that were immune to fire.

** spoiler omitted **

This is why I advised the Fire/Water shift at 7th level. Also Kinetic Healer, Wall & Suffocate.

The plan for Outsiders was to get a +1 Bane Outsider [Evil] light crossbow, as that covers the majority of all outsiders you will run into.

Are you suggesting take the water blast or cold blast? Because you only get one with expanded element. I’m an adamant proponent of having a physical blast as a kineticist if nothing but for the ability to bypass SR

Shadow Lodge

Fire has always been the most common element in d&d and pathfinder. It's the most common damage type for spells, abilities, being resistant, and being immune to. If you play a fire focused character there will be times where you run into things you can't hurt with fire. I made an ifrit monk/sorceress for pfs. I was so unlucky in modules played that I hit 5th level before I faced an opponent that didn't have fire resistance. It was all fiendish this, fire elemental that, but I had designed her to be able to fight with a sword as well, so that is what she did. The point is, you must have a backup thing to do in combat if your primary (fire) attack doesn't work. At low levels, just having a crossbow or some clubs to throw could be good enough.
It is the largest downside with the kineticist, and the reason why every kineticist I've seen starts with a physical blast and picks up an elemental blast as their second choice.


If you want more range then going Fire and Air is probably better.

Wood has healing like with Water and a physical blast like earth; but its overall seen as worse than earth overall.

Having an alternate attack is always good specially in early (resistances) and late (Anti Magic and Resist Energy type spells) levels.


Tarik Blackhands wrote:
Syries wrote:

Any time you run into a devil, demon, fire elemental, efreet, red dragon, or any other myriad of creature that’s immune to fire you’re out of luck in a fight. Fire is almost all focused on offense- one of the few combat abilities you can use is smoke storm

A good reason to go physical blast like earth is also for when you fight anything immune to magic or has high SR.

Devils are really the only common enemy that fully stonewall full pyromancers. Virtually every other enemy natively immune to fire (and demons only resist fire natively, not sure where you're reading they're immune) is also fire subtyped and thus eligible for draining infusion meaning you can still do some okay work on them beyond mobile smokescreening.

Some reasonably common Demons are also fire-immune: for instance, Brimorak and Succubus (although strangely not Incubus). At higher levels (although not so common), Balor.

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