A Few Questions


Rules Questions

Silver Crusade

Hi guys!

Just a few quick questions.

1) I've been playing this game for a long time, but I still don't know what is the current official Pathfinder standing when it comes to Hit Point calculation. When I calculate hit points for my Cavalier, do I take 10 on d10 every time I level up or do I approximate rolling and take 6 on d6 every time and add the CON modifier? He's now level 12 and his CON modifier is +1. For the life of me, I still don't know if he should be at 94, which is my calculation using that d6 method, or considerably higher.

2) When it comes to animal companions, is the formula for their HP calculation Hit Dice x 4.5 plus Hit Dice x CON modifier or am I also crippling my horse by some half-baked method of calculation?

3) Now, this one should be simple common sense, but the wording - or rather, the implication of numbering - is all wrong. When leveling my horse, it says on the table you'll see on the link below that, for example, my horse gets +4 on his STR/DEX scores on level 12. If he had STR of 22 and DEX of 16, does that mean that the scores will get to STR 26 and DEX 20? What happens at level 13? Don't tell me that I add these numbers again? I'm supposing that the next time these numbers will go up is at level 15, when I will add +5 to the scores of STR 26 and DEX 20, getting them to 31 and 25 respectively, but not before. What this table would suggest is adding those numbers on every level.

This is the table in question:
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/druid/animal-companions/

Thanks in advance!

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Krky77 wrote:
1) I've been playing this game for a long time, but I still don't know what is the current official Pathfinder standing when it comes to Hit Point calculation. When I calculate hit points for my Cavalier, do I take 10 on d10 every time I level up or do I approximate rolling and take 6 on d6 every time and add the CON modifier? He's now level 12 and his CON modifier is +1. For the life of me, I still don't know if he should be at 94, which is my calculation using that d6 method, or considerably higher.

It's a d10 hit die class. You get 10 + CON at level one, then roll d10 + CON at each level. Many simplify that and take the average roll, rounded up. PFS does this. There is no d6 involved. My math puts him at 10 (level one hit points) + 66 (average-ish level 2 - 12) + 12 for CON. 88 hit points.

Quote:
2) When it comes to animal companions, is the formula for their HP calculation Hit Dice x 4.5 plus Hit Dice x CON modifier or am I also crippling my horse by some half-baked method of calculation?

I don't do a lot of animal companions, but pretty sure they get the average of the hit die + CON.

Quote:
3) What this table would suggest is adding those numbers on every level.

No, it's giving you the adjustment for that level. So if you needed to roll up a level 12 character, you wouldn't have to go back through all the previous levels to see what the total should be. So the increase at level 12 with only be +1, the increase over the bonus at level 11.


1. First level, 10 + CON modifier, minimum 1. Each subsequent level, add 1d10 + CON Modifier, minimum 1.

2. Correct.

3. The entry for each level shows the amount to add to the animal companion's base statistics. It is not cumulative. For example, at the character's 3rd cavalier level, increase the mount's Strength and Dexterity by 1. At 6th cavalier level, increase them again by 1. And so on, until at 18th level you've increased them by a total of 6. This is in addition to any increases received due to its species-specific advancement (for a horse: +2 Str, +2 Con at 4th level) and also in addition to the standard +1 to your choice of ability score when the mount reaches 4 Hit Dice, 8 Hit Dice, and so on.

A standard horse companion for a cavalier 12 will be (note: I'm doing this really quickly on the fly and reserve the right to make mistakes!):

Str 22 (16 base, +2 species advancement, +4 Str/Dex column)
Dex 17 (13 base, +4 Str/Dex column)
Con 17 (15 base, +2 species advancement)
Int 2 (2 base)
Wis 12 (12 base)
Cha 6 (6 base)

Hit Dice 13 (d8 for animals)
HP 97 (13d8+39 [4 + 5 + 4 + 5 + 4 + 5 + 4 + 5 + 4 + 5 + 4 + 5 + 4 from rolls, 39 from Constitution])

with an additional 3 ability score points allocated as you see fit due to the companion being 13 Hit Dice.

This doesn't take into account alternate growth options (like taking the Dex+Con option at 4th level), feats such as Toughness, or companion archetypes. Naturally, it doesn't include magical equipment, spell effects, inherent bonuses from wishes, and so on.

Why is the animal companion 4 + 5 + ... + 5 + 4 instead of 5 + 4 + ... + 4 + 5? Because that's how they do it in the Bestiary stat blocks for animal companions. *shrug*

(Edit: Now with hit points!)
(Edit 2: Replaced incorrect cavalier HP formula to account for minimum of 1 hit point per level.)


1) PC HPs: depends on the game you are in. First level is usually maximum. Some(PFS) take the rounded up average, others roll. In a fair home game the process for the PCs is applied to all creatures. Don't forget the favored class bonus which encourages single classed characters.

2) AnmlCmpn HPs: yep, 4.5 multiplied by HD. Again, GMs that insist on rolling may home game this into a roll. Advice for a home game where PCs use 20, 25, 30 pt ability score buys, using 4.5, 5, 5.5 respectively instead of 4.5 isn't unreasonable.

3) animal companions(AnmlCmpn) are calculated off a base creature, then added to by the animal companion advancement table, and a boost usually at 4th or 7th level. It is not the same as creature/monster advancement via Hit Die by Type.
The base AnmlCmpn creature can be rather poor, worse than a heavy war horse which is a horse(creature) with the simple advanced template. So think horse companion (not creature or monster)...
Bought/purchased creatures use the creature/monster blocks in the Bestiaries. They don't advance with PC levels.

Sadly, the mechanics and strategies of the game lead to disposable AnmlCmpns that are traded out at 4th and 7th and 9th level or die every couple of adventures...
At 1st level I'd suggest buying a heavy war horse and a free AnmlCmpn with scent that the PC is okay with dying in the line of duty. Trade out the AnmlCmpn at 3rd or 4th level for something better (if it hasn't died). At this point be careful to buy armor/barding that will fit your current AND future companions.

Silver Crusade

Thank you so much guys!
I think everything's crystal clear now. And indeed, the STR/DEX bonus distribution has even more sense the way you described it. Come to think of it, anything else would really be overpowered. Even like this, the horses are a true force to be reckoned with at higher levels. :)
Thanks!


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Krky77 wrote:

Thank you so much guys!

I think everything's crystal clear now. And indeed, the STR/DEX bonus distribution has even more sense the way you described it. Come to think of it, anything else would really be overpowered. Even like this, the horses are a true force to be reckoned with at higher levels. :)
Thanks!

Enjoy your murderhorse! : )


at first level a Anml Cmpn Horse is;

Base AnmlCmpn
Size Large; Speed 50 ft.; AC +4 natural armor; Attack bite (1d4), (2) hooves §(1d6); Ability Scores Str 16, Dex 13, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6; Special Qualities low-light vision, scent.
Secondary attack(§).
note: it is a GM's prerogative to update racial skills and reach.

plus Table: Animal Companion Base Statistics;
HD:2, BAB:+1, F:+3 R:+3 W:+0, Skls:2, Feat:1, AC(natl):+0, Str&Dex:+0, Trick:+1, Abil: Link, share spells.

figure 2*4.5 or 9HPs + the usuals.

That's it... not really anything good and not as good as spending 300gp on a heavy war horse.


at fourth level a Anml Cmpn Horse is;

Base AnmlCmpn
Size Large; Speed 50 ft.; AC +4 natural armor; Attack bite (1d4), (2) hooves §(1d6); Ability Scores Str 16, Dex 13, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6; Special Qualities low-light vision, scent.
Secondary attack(§).
note: it is a GM's prerogative to update racial skills and reach.

plus the creature advancement at 4th;
Ability Scores Str +2, Con +2; Special Qualities combat trained.

plus Table: Animal Companion Base Statistics;
HD:4, BAB:+3, F:+4 R:+4 W:+1, Skls:4, Feat:2, AC(natl):+2, Str&Dex:+1, Trick:+2, Abil(cumulative): Link, share spells, evasion, ability score increase.

figure 4*4.5 or 18HPs + the usual.

That's it... at least it's not afraid of combat any more.
note: as the animal companion doesn't have the Docile(Ex) special ability, gaining Combat Trained doesn't eliminate the hooves as secondary attacks. It's a nitpick as it should but by RAW it doesn't. That considerably hobbles the horse an as attack animal companion.


Azothath wrote:
note: as the animal companion doesn't have the Docile(Ex) special ability, gaining Combat Trained doesn't eliminate the hooves as secondary attacks. It's a nitpick as it should but by RAW it doesn't. That considerably hobbles the horse an as attack animal companion.

It's not as good as some, but I wouldn't call it "hobbled". Horse companions have been murdering their way through low-level combat since Pathfinder RPG was first released.

Silver Crusade

You guys are lifesavers.
My character sheets never looked this tight. :)
I'll be referring to this thread every time I level up.

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