Throw one weapon, keep another in hand unused - do I still threaten?


Rules Questions


I'm sure this has been answered somewhere, but my search fu is failing.

SITUATION: My character has two "thrown" (descriptor) weapons out (say, two daggers). They throw one of them as a ranged attack. They keep the other one in hand and do not use it. Later that same round, an opponent provokes an AoO.

Can my character:

1. Take an attack of opportunity with normal BAB?
2. Take an attack with a retroactively applied penalty for two-weapon fighting?
3. Not take an attack of opportunity, since I had not declare that round that I was fighting with two weapons?

SIMILAR SITUATION: My character has a throwing weapon and throws it. They then draw a second weapon as their move action (or Quick Draw it). Functionally, at the end of their turn, they are in the same situation as above.

Can my character now:

1. Take an attack of opportunity with normal BAB?
2. Take an attack with a retroactively applied penalty for two-weapon fighting?
3. Not take an attack of opportunity, since I had not declare that round that I was fighting with two weapons?


1. You can take an attack as long as you threaten them and they provoke (and you have the ability to make an AoO.)

2. You dont take penalties for TWF when making an AoO. TWF has no affect on your attack rolls for an AoO.

3. TWF has no effect on your ability to make an AoO.


TWF only applies the penalty until the end of your turn, so unless an enemy provokes during your turn somehow you won't take the penalties on an AoO.

Also, you only take penalties for fighting with two weapons if you're trying to get extra attacks during your round. If you have +6/+1 BAB you have 2 attacks in a round. If you're holding a mace and a dagger you can make an attack with the dagger at +6 BAB and an attack with the mace at +1 BAB and take no penalties for TWF. This is because even though you're using two weapons you're only taking the attacks normally allowed by your BAB. The number of weapons you're holding/using doesn't matter, it's making extra attacks that gives the penalty for TWF. If you had +16/+11/+6/+1 BAB and the Quickdraw feat you could make attacks with an axe (+16), a mace (+11), a rapier (+6) and then throw a dagger (+1), and then pull out a longspear so that you can make AoO's with reach (you would have to drop weapons between attacks or have 6 hands to do this).


The guys above have the right of it. So stab away.


quibblemuch wrote:

...

SITUATION {A}: My character has two "thrown" (descriptor) weapons out (say, two daggers). They throw one of them as a ranged attack. They keep the other one in hand and do not use it. Later that same round, an opponent provokes an AoO.

Can my character:

1. Take an attack of opportunity with normal BAB?
2. Take an attack with a retroactively applied penalty for two-weapon fighting?
3. Not take an attack of opportunity, since I had not declare that round that I was fighting with two weapons?

... SITUATION {B}: My character has a throwing weapon and throws it. They then draw a second weapon as their move action (or Quick Draw it). Functionally, at the end of their turn, they are in the same situation as above.

Can my character now:

1. Take an attack of opportunity with normal BAB?
2. Take an attack with a retroactively applied penalty for two-weapon fighting?
3. Not take an attack of opportunity, since I had not declare that round that I was fighting with two weapons?

A - as others have said 1 yes, 2 no penalty as TWF has ceased after your turn, 3 n/a. Note that daggers are simple light melee weapons that have a range and are thus also thrown weapons. An exception under special circumstances may exist... there are a lot of feats, class oddities, conditions...

B - same as above. Quickdraw uses a free action.

With Two Weapon Fighting(TWF) the creature has two weapons out, uses both(throwing one thus probably having a free hand), then uses Quickdraw to pull another into the open hand. It has also been ruled(within PFS) that changing hands is a free action. It seems very sensible.


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Thanks all!

I had thought that if you take a voluntary penalty to attack on your turn (e.g., through TWF) it lasts through the round until the beginning of your next turn. 10 years I've been playing that wrong.


quibblemuch wrote:
I had thought that if you take a voluntary penalty to attack on your turn (e.g., through TWF) it lasts through the round until the beginning of your next turn. 10 years I've been playing that wrong.

Well, for some effects you would be absolutely correct. For instance, the Bloody/Stunning/etc Assault feats all work that way. So don't push your newfound knowledge too far. :-)


Ah! Found the relevant FAQ.


I think you wouldn't even suffer the TWF penalty on AoOs in the middle of your full attack, as you "suffer a –6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand", and an AoO is not a regular attack. You aren't using the TWF option for the AoO unless using the Two-Weapon Warrior's Equal Opportunity ability.


MrCharisma wrote:

TWF only applies the penalty until the end of your turn, so unless an enemy provokes during your turn somehow you won't take the penalties on an AoO.

This isn't quite correct. You only suffer TWF penalties for attacks that are made as part of the full attack for which you are TWFing. AoO's are not part of that full attack, and thus do not suffer any penalties for TWF.

Edit: And when I finish reading the thread I see others have already pointed that out.


bbangerter wrote:
MrCharisma wrote:

TWF only applies the penalty until the end of your turn, so unless an enemy provokes during your turn somehow you won't take the penalties on an AoO.

This isn't quite correct. You only suffer TWF penalties for attacks that are made as part of the full attack for which you are TWFing. AoO's are not part of that full attack, and thus do not suffer any penalties for TWF.

Edit: And when I finish reading the thread I see others have already pointed that out.

All good, better to be thorough, this is the rules forum after all

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