Argent Song: holy crap diplomacy bonus. I think I did the math in another thread showing a +300 diplomacy roll. Because why the hell not.You have peaked my interest how does one get +300 diplomacy with that build?I do apologize it was over 200 not 300 and I just saw this post.
We never fully added up the final numbers once it broke 200, though. I think 240 was about right.
Anyways, something like this if you scroll down enough and see all my posts on it plus the back and forth.
Of course it's all quite silly as you can use it for many skills... like escape artist rolls with a bunch of friends screaming "you can do it!" with the same bonus.
The only issue I have with that post is that everyone seemed to forget that the check in question is still a diplomacy check not a perform check. Yes, the bard gets to use their bonus on perform via versatile performance but at the end of the day it's still a diplomacy check meaning feats like ensemble and basic harmony don't apply. If the objective is to achieve a perform check over 200 then everything is fine.
To be fair, even without those feats I was able to get a +77 diplomacy check on a 10th level bard without using temporary buffs of any kind. So, getting around 150 or so at 20th level using temporary buffs seems doable.
Inspired Blade Swashbuckler. You can add Int to your panache pool as well as Cha, get both Weapon Finesse and Weapon Focus at level one which means you can grab Fencing Grace at level one easy, and everything else is the same just focused on the rapier instead of any weapon a vanilla Swashbuckler might use. The only thing you lose is the ability to regain panache by killing, but that's not too bad a loss as you have more to start off with.
That seems rather anal to say it has to be a diplomacy roll rather than a bard using his class given abilities to use perform to have a diplomacy result. That's what versatile performance does. Why punish the class for doing what it's supposed to do? Especially the archetype whose sole purpose is this?
?
I'm just following the wording of the ability.
At 2nd level, a bard can choose one type of Perform skill. He can use his bonus in that skill in place of his bonus in associated skills. When substituting in this way, the bard uses his total Perform skill bonus, including class skill bonus, in place of its associated skill's bonus, whether or not he has ranks in that skill or if it is a class skill.
There is nothing in the description that states that the check suddenly becomes a perform check. There are abilities that do that kind of thing and they clearly state it.
You gain a +2 trait bonus on Sense Motive checks to detect when an underling is trying to hide something from you, and can attempt such checks instead of Perception checks to notice and react to a subordinate’s surprise attack against you.
If it actually allowed you to make a perform check instead of the related skill it would just state it. Instead of going out of its way to state that you get the entire bonus regardless of your ranks in the original skill. As for argent voice, nothing I'm stating takes away from the ability. It augments the perform sing option for versatile performance.
That seems rather anal to say it has to be a diplomacy roll rather than a bard using his class given abilities to use perform to have a diplomacy result. That's what versatile performance does. Why punish the class for doing what it's supposed to do? Especially the archetype whose sole purpose is this??
I'm just following the wording of the ability.
At 2nd level, a bard can choose one type of Perform skill. He can use his bonus in that skill in place of his bonus in associated skills. When substituting in this way, the bard uses his total Perform skill bonus, including class skill bonus, in place of its associated skill's bonus, whether or not he has ranks in that skill or if it is a class skill.There is nothing in the description that states that the check suddenly becomes a perform check. There are abilities that do that kind of thing and they clearly state it.
You gain a +2 trait bonus on Sense Motive checks to detect when an underling is trying to hide something from you, and can attempt such checks instead of Perception checks to notice and react to a subordinate’s surprise attack against you.If it actually allowed you to make a perform check instead of the related skill it would just state it. Instead of going out of its way to state that you get the entire bonus regardless of your ranks in the original skill. As for argent voice, nothing I'm stating takes away from the ability. It augments the perform sing option for versatile performance.
Surely 'total bonus in a skill' would include any circumstantial bonuses to that skill?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The Scarred Witch Doctor is pretty much an upgrade for a half-orc witch.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The Scarred Witch Doctor is pretty much an upgrade for a half-orc witch.
I miss the pre-errtra version.
I've said it before but I'll say it again: When they came out with the Scarred Witch Doctor Errata, it is as if they forgot that Half-Orcs can put their +2 anywhere. This change killed some interesting Orc gish builds, but made otherwise conventional Half-Orc Witches superpowered.
The old Scarred Witch Doctor was stupid, and the new one is even worse. Never should have been printed.
The old Scarred Witch Doctor was stupid, and the new one is even worse. Never should have been printed.
While I do agree, it's worth noting that neither archetype is completely unprecedented.
As far as Con-based casters, undead charisma-based spellcasters get this same kind of effect. Not normally applicable to PC's, but something to be mindful of when crafting NPC's. Undead Antipaladins and Sorcerers can be obscenely bulky.
Many of the elemental native outsiders have a "double-dip" ability score boost with Sorcerer bloodlines. If you can use a subtype to get a charisma boost, and then stack it with a bloodline that matches your elemental subtype, you're effectively getting a double racial bonus.
Of course, all of the above are problematic to some degree so I do agree that the Scarred Witch Doctor shouldn't really exist in either of its published forms.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Eh, I liked that it made an Orc witch a reasonable archetype to play. I like archetypes designed to make thematic but mechanically unsound race/class combinations possible. Stuff like Dwarf Sorcerers or Samsaran Barbarians.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Eh, I liked that it made an Orc witch a reasonable archetype to play. I like archetypes designed to make thematic but mechanically unsound race/class combinations possible. Stuff like Dwarf Sorcerers or Samsaran Barbarians.
None of that is a problem. What is a problem is when the bonus can be hijacked by a race that is already well-suited to the class. Scarred Witch Doctor can be taken by half-orcs, and there are many subtypes of elemental native outsider that get charisma bonuses and are well-suited to being a sorcerer.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Eh, I liked that it made an Orc witch a reasonable archetype to play. I like archetypes designed to make thematic but mechanically unsound race/class combinations possible. Stuff like Dwarf Sorcerers or Samsaran Barbarians.None of that is a problem. What is a problem is when the bonus can be hijacked by a race that is already well-suited to the class. Scarred Witch Doctor can be taken by half-orcs, and there are many subtypes of elemental native outsider that get charisma bonuses and are well-suited to being a sorcerer.
I know, it just peeves me that the whole archetype got changed (Without removing the issue of Half-Orcs making good use of it) when you could have just included the text "Half Orcs may not take this archetype" because specific trumps general.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I figure the problem with the Scarred Witch Doctor is that there never should have been a race with a penalty to every single casting stat. Combining this with "nonetheless, these people should have some kind of magical tradition" results in problem archetypes.
I figure the problem with the Scarred Witch Doctor is that there never should have been a race with a penalty to every single casting stat. Combining this with "nonetheless, these people should have some kind of magical tradition" results in problem archetypes.
Admittedly, we are talking about orcs. Traditionally, they have not been seen as playable races, and the stats are likely just the stats the devs used when making bestiary entries. The usual answer to "player wants to play an orc" is "go half orc".
Though you right that this went about as well as trying to put that square peg into a round hole- the orc just smashes the peg into the puzzle and crushes it before going out to do some pillaging.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
At least Orcs make decent Kineticists, since they decided constitution is an acceptable casting stat after all >_>