Paizo Blog: Iconic Evolution: Lini


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Hazzah!!!!
Another beautiful iconic evolution.
For me with the new Lini style what really stands out is the color.
The green of her hair, markings, armor and clothes .. I love it. Beautiful just as Nature and Wayne Reynolds intended.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Don't see too much different with Lini, but Droogami looks adorably fierce.


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

So comparing her original look to her new look...I dunno, I just don't see much of a change at all.

I mean, there are differences, but other than little things like her garb being slightly less drab and having different knickknacks, it seems to come down to her being a little shorter and her head being a little rounder with slightly rounder eyes. A few details like that just don't seem very notable, overall.


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Lini!

I like how the lighting & tones used on her skin make it look like she is made of polished wood. (The green hair helps, too!)

Quite like this evolution of her art.

Carry on!

--C.

PS: Her feet are so dainty! & She has dainty pointy ears!
...
She's just so dainty!!
:D


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The twig collecting is a pretty cool concept in the video. I like it!

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Lini being my favorite Iconic from 1E overall I think the art is alright I suppose. Not a fan of how thin/shorter and less I'm not 100% sure it's the right term but I guess armoured is the word i'm looking for her legs look.

On the otherhand I do like the head/face and hair.

Dark Archive

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Droogami on the otherhand seems to have shrunk a bit and something seems kind of off about her face to me.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The change in her proportions feel fairly small while also making a significant difference in feeling for me. She's gone from looking like a small weird human with a skin condition who doesn't eat a whole lot to a small humanoid that feels like they could be related to the fey. I'm really happy with the move to differentiate the proportions of the races more strongly.

Droogami reminds me of that one chubby tiger from zootopia, and it's not terrible, but I'm not the hugest fan of it I guess.


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It hardly looks like a redesign or an evolution so much as a picture made on a different day of the week. Very similar to the original.

I have to say, I'm hoping the colors for the new iconics in the new books pop a little more than they do here on the site. They're very...dull? Grainy?


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Quote:
it’s fitting that we’re looking at one of the half-sized iconics this week.

See, this is just the sort of 'size privilege' that I'd hoped to see less of. We are not "half-sized." We are 'differently tall.'

Love the artwork, though - again an evolution rather than a complete changeover.

Liberty's Edge

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I like Lini okay.

I agree that the changes are minimal except for her proportions, and think I actually prefer the old proportions slightly on an aesthetic level. Of course, on a world building level giving Gnomes a more consistently applied set of specific proportions is probably good.


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Lini is not bad, I prefer the older proportions but her new armor and clothings look really nice.

The thing I don't like is Droogami, she looks so much like a plush toy now, rather than a fierce animal ...


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Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Droogami reminds me a lot of the antagonist from Kung-Fu Panda now. I think it's the bigger shoulders and wider jaw that really emphasized it.


I like how Lini's hair looks like wild grass. This idea was already there in the earlier iteration, but it works even better here.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
MusicAddict wrote:


Droogami reminds me of that one chubby tiger from zootopia, and it's not terrible, but I'm not the hugest fan of it I guess.

Thank you not quite what I was thinking (Realise I'm thinking of tigress from kung-fu panda) but I knew something felt uncanny vally about how Droogami looks now.

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Droogami got the Paizo look treatment. Just like kobolds, and Goblins before them.

Now what we really need is Droogami plush

Dark Archive

I hope the changes between Pathfinder & Pathfinder Second Edition are comparable to the changes between the Iconic Heroes & the Iconic Heroes Evolved.

To be clear, the only significant changes are with Harsk.
And Fumbus - that guy looks totally different than before.

Make it so.


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At first I didn't think much had changed, but after a closer look, I see that it's actually quite a bit different. It seems to have gone from a more 'realistic' look to one that's for lack of a better word, more 'cartoony.' I think this is the only one I've seen so far, where the art style looks to have gotten simpler, and significantly so. I mean look at the old clothing with it's silver swirls and other patterns, the new one they're simpler, mostly some silver chevrons and trim around the borders. Her proportions have changed, but her body also seems to have lost most of it's actual shape. I do like the new head shape though. Her body is more child-like now than that of a small woman. Even the equipment and doodads she's got with her seem simplified. She's lost the dolls/effigies on her belt but gained a couple of pouches.

Sad to say, I'm not a huge fan of the changes. Mostly due to the diminished detail, and I think things moved too much towards her looking like a young human child and away from a non-human adult. Reminds me of a little girl in costume for her school play. I thought gnomes were done pretty well in PF1, so I don't think they really needed much of an overhaul, just more consistency between artists. Distinguishing them from halflings, should probably have been more on the halfling side.


Wow! Droogami is eating a lot of monsters... He is all cuddly now!


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Doktor Weasel wrote:

At first I didn't think much had changed, but after a closer look, I see that it's actually quite a bit different. It seems to have gone from a more 'realistic' look to one that's for lack of a better word, more 'cartoony.' I think this is the only one I've seen so far, where the art style looks to have gotten simpler, and significantly so. I mean look at the old clothing with it's silver swirls and other patterns, the new one they're simpler, mostly some silver chevrons and trim around the borders. Her proportions have changed, but her body also seems to have lost most of it's actual shape. I do like the new head shape though. Her body is more child-like now than that of a small woman. Even the equipment and doodads she's got with her seem simplified. She's lost the dolls/effigies on her belt but gained a couple of pouches.

Sad to say, I'm not a huge fan of the changes. Mostly due to the diminished detail, and I think things moved too much towards her looking like a young human child and away from a non-human adult. Reminds me of a little girl in costume for her school play. I thought gnomes were done pretty well in PF1, so I don't think they really needed much of an overhaul, just more consistency between artists. Distinguishing them from halflings, should probably have been more on the halfling side.

I want to offer a few small counterpoints.

The simpler and cleaner artstyle is something fairly true of every character. Fine detail has been sacrificed on all character designs revealed to reduce the feeling of clutter and mess that was common for PF1 iconic designs.

Second of all... she really doesn't look like a small child. Her body and limbs are WAY too thin for a kid who would have a proportionally similar head. Even the kids with the body shapes typically described as "string beans" have way smaller proportioned head to body ratio.

And I find the looks like an adult nonhuman weird because 1e Lini looks like a human in super dedicated cosplay in terms of human-ness. Non human humanoids shouldn't really look like humans in cosplay.

Shadow Lodge

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Droogami is so fluffy now!

And is snarling at me for saying that.


I love the new Lini design!


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Changes seem minor- mostly matters of color and texture, rather than line.

Her proportions are definitely clearer now, though- and what looked like white cloth on the old one now looks a little more organic...

CARRY ON!


Glad to hear that they've settled the ear thing (for now, at least). Lini does look pretty similar to her previous iteration. She does look a bit taller than before, but that could just be an optical illusion from her being slimmer now.

Droogami's paws almost looks to be plantigrade, however, which is a bit strange.

Silver Crusade

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Noir le Lotus wrote:
The thing I don't like is Droogami, she looks so much like a plush toy now, rather than a fierce animal ...

Have you seen a snow leopard?


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Well, Lini was my favorite iconic from PF1E and she is adorable in PF2E as well. I like her face and body size, she sure does look more fey-like.

Druids and Clerics are my favorite classes, as they are really flavorful, and I hope to see great things for them in the new game.


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Rysky wrote:
Noir le Lotus wrote:
The thing I don't like is Droogami, she looks so much like a plush toy now, rather than a fierce animal ...
Have you seen a snow leopard?

Yes it's a leopard with a thick fur, not a plush toy.

And the pictures for your link are showing leopard cubs.

I must say the tendency to make several creatures look cute in PF2 is starting to worry me. If it keeps on like this, I fear the future PF2 books will look like more Ponyfinder or Playground Adventures than a general D&Desque fantasy RPG ...

Grand Lodge

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Noir le Lotus wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Noir le Lotus wrote:
The thing I don't like is Droogami, she looks so much like a plush toy now, rather than a fierce animal ...
Have you seen a snow leopard?

Yes it's a leopard with a thick fur, not a plush toy.

And the pictures for your link are showing leopard cubs.

I must say the tendency to make several creatures look cute in PF2 is starting to worry me. If it keeps on like this, I fear the future PF2 books will look like more Ponyfinder or Playground Adventures than a general D&Desque fantasy RPG ...

The cow level is a lie

Liberty's Edge

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Noir le Lotus wrote:

Yes it's a leopard with a thick fur, not a plush toy.

And the pictures for your link are showing leopard cubs.

Snow leopards look immensely cuddly with their winter fur in. Some examples can be found here or here.

Now, Droogami's proportions look slightly off to me, but it's her legs being too thick more than anything else, and not a particularly 'cute' look, IMO. Certainly no cuter than actual snow leopards (which are adorable to start with).

Noir le Lotus wrote:
I must say the tendency to make several creatures look cute in PF2 is starting to worry me. If it keeps on like this, I fear the future PF2 books will look like more Ponyfinder or Playground Adventures than a general D&Desque fantasy RPG ...

Frankly, the Troll illustrations don't seem cute to me, and snow leopards are pretty cute in real life. So I guess you're basing this on...exclusively the new kobolds? That seems pretty far-fetched to base this theory on (especially when they've said the hobgoblin and bugbear sketches from the playtest stuff are pretty accurate, and neither are cute).

Silver Crusade

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Noir le Lotus wrote:
Yes it's a leopard with a thick fur, not a plush toy.
Snow. Leopoard.
Quote:
I must say the tendency to make several creatures look cute in PF2 is starting to worry me.
We have kobolds and Snow Leopards... which were already adorable.
Quote:
If it keeps on like this, I fear the future PF2 books will look like more Ponyfinder or Playground Adventures than a general D&Desque fantasy RPG ...

I take it you haven’t seen the Hydra alongside the kobolds on the Bestiary cover?

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32

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Noir le Lotus wrote:
I must say the tendency to make several creatures look cute in PF2 is starting to worry me. If it keeps on like this, I fear the future PF2 books will look like more Ponyfinder or Playground Adventures than a general D&Desque fantasy RPG ...

You say that like it's a bad thing. :-P

In all seriousness, I don't think folks need to worry about things getting too "cute" in Pathfinder. We've still got a big nasty troll on the cover of the Bestiary and a frightening-looking hydra behind that. Ogres and ogre-kin are still going to be gross, and there will surely be plenty of foul-looking fiends in the game.

Kobolds have always been kind of cute, and the new design just cements that status. Gnomes have always been cute, so Lini and her pet looking adorable should come as no surprise.

If we see a toad demon with puppy dog eyes and a bishie sparkle, then it might be time to worry.


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I think she's beautiful and her proportions, eyes and ears really drive the "fey-related ancestry" point home.

Droogami is adorable, as a snow leopard should be (although... perhaps she's still young? She seems younger than a fully-grown leopard, I'm not sure).

I think it's good that some creatures in PF 2e tend towards a "cute" appearance, considering the huge amount of nightmare fuel and heroic pulp fare that has always been present in the game. You can all sleep soundly tonight, no adult red dragons were chibified in the making of this rpg.

Of course if the bestiary entry for Great Cthulhu looks like this then you were right (and I shall eat humble pie).

Looking forward to Sutton's vignette!


These blogs are like going to a fancy dinner and getting served pictures of food instead of appetizers. At least it looks nice!


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Stone Dog wrote:
These blogs are like going to a fancy dinner and getting served pictures of food instead of appetizers. At least it looks nice!

Well, we’re showing up a couple months early. In our metaphor, I think we’re getting pictures of what we’ll be served when it’s actually time for dinner.

In other news, I enjoy the furry tank look on Droomi.


Rysky wrote:
Noir le Lotus wrote:
Yes it's a leopard with a thick fur, not a plush toy.
Snow. Leopoard.

PF1 Droogami models : this, this or that

The fur is thicker because it has adapted to cold weather, but it's not fluffy, and it's still a predator that relies on agility and stealth to catch its prey !!

PF2 Droogami models : this, or that

short legs, fluffy fur, everything is there

Silver Crusade

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Kitties!

Paizo Employee PR Manager

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Stone Dog wrote:
These blogs are like going to a fancy dinner and getting served pictures of food instead of appetizers. At least it looks nice!

'Tis true, the feast has yet to truly begin. To all, may I humbly suggest you consider these articles to be the beginning of a long dining experience, with many courses, that are still being prepared in the kitchen. (The metaphor fails however because publishing is the MOST quiet kitchen, ever.) So, small portions for now, but the Main Course will be more than 1,250 pages on August 1.

We are grateful for your hearty appetite. This is the right problem to have. We will adjust our blog article menu based on your feedback. More videos, more short fiction, and much more to come.


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Aaron Shanks wrote:
Stone Dog wrote:
These blogs are like going to a fancy dinner and getting served pictures of food instead of appetizers. At least it looks nice!

'Tis true, the feast has yet to truly begin. To all, may I humbly suggest you consider these articles to be the beginning of a long dining experience, with many courses, that are still being prepared in the kitchen. (The metaphor fails however because publishing is the MOST quiet kitchen, ever.) So, small portions for now, but the Main Course will be more than 1,250 pages on August 1.

We are grateful for your hearty appetite. This is the right problem to have. We will adjust our blog article menu based on your feedback. More videos, more short fiction, and much more to come.

Over 1200 pages you say?

Con: sounds a bit cumbersome for easy travel.

Pro: heavy enough to beat someone to death with.

After careful consideration of the pros and cons I approve!

Paizo Employee Franchise Manager

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1250 pages of PDFs are weightless


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Mark Moreland wrote:
1250 pages of PDFs are weightless

Well if you want to get me a device for the PDFs that would be great. Otherwise I will be getting the bludgeon version.

Liberty's Edge

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In fairness, the 1250 pages is 3 books.

Of course, 640 of that is the corebook, which is still enough to make it an excellent bludgeoning weapon.


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Deadmanwalking wrote:

In fairness, the 1250 pages is 3 books.

Of course, 640 of that is the corebook, which is still enough to make it an excellent bludgeoning weapon.

They could be strapped together with rope or, say, a belt and then be a full bad ass bludgeoning device!

Think like a gremlin!

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Mark Moreland wrote:
1250 pages of PDFs are weightless

And this right there is the problem with digital products.

Nothing like a heavy tome held in both hands to instill the fear of the GM in those unruly players.


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The Raven Black wrote:
Nothing like a heavy tome held in both hands to instill the fear of the GM in those unruly players.

If you can't scare them by going, "roll Perception," I have nothing for you...

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Rocks fall.


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^Shouldn't that be "Books fall"?

Shadow Lodge

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UnArcaneElection wrote:

^Shouldn't that be "Books fall"?

The books are carved on rocks.

Liberty's Edge

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Charlton Heston was a GM ?


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The Raven Black wrote:
Charlton Heston was a GM ?

He wanted his group to play a really old game almost completely revolving around alignment.

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