Ecclesitheurge or Druid archer?

[Meegles]

I'm building an archer/support caster for Rise of the Runelords. Our party already has a pretty good frontline with a fighter, monk, magus, and barbarian. So I decided to play a backline cleric. I've always liked the ecclesitheurge archetype (even though I know it has its detractors) so I decided to try to build an ecclesitheurge archer of Erastil. Since he's going to be avoiding melee anyway the loss of armor and shields seemed a little less of a drawback. So here is a quick sketch of that build:

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(we rolled for stats and I rolled like a boss)
Human
STR - 15
DEX - 18
CON - 14
INT - 10
WIS - 18 (16 +2 racial)
CHA - 14

Primary domain - Animal (Feather)
Secondary domain - Law

Point-Blank Shot
Precise Shot

Heirloom Weapon (longbow)
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With this build I'll get an animal companion at 4 and access to a lot of really great non-cleric spells (mostly druid). I'll probably sub out Law spell list for Plant spell list most of the time. Long term plan would be to get Erastil's Evangelist boons either with the evangelist prestige class or with diverse obedience. This will give me the power to copy my AC and add Wis to bow damage.

Then I started thinking, am I just building a low-rent druid? Should I just build a full-on druid instead?

Here are the differences as I see them:

Druid loses domain powers (one of which is AC so really only 3 of the 4)
Druid loses access to cleric spells (this is the biggy) and a few of the other domain spells (fly for instance)
Druid loses channel energy
Druid loses bonded holy symbol
Druid gains wildshape
Druid gains armor
Druid gains feat I would have to use to make AC better
Druid gains the remaining Druid spell list not covered by domain spells

So the really big things are the armor vs the spell list. The cleric seems to have the better spell casting since he's got several of the really good druid spells plus Fly and has more versatility with the bonded holy symbol but I'm open to argument I may be valuing that too highly. The big drawback is no armor. I haven't played for a while and I don't know how big a deal that is. How would you decide between these two ideas? Is one clearly better than the other?

Thanks for any help!

[Magda Luckbender]

@OP I once played a similarly-statted cleric of Erastil. I played the same basic character in an un-recognizably different way. I don't have an opinion of Eclesiatheurge versus Druid. Mine was straight-cleric. For comparison I'll tell you how mine worked.

First, I eschew archery clerics, despite worshipping Erastil. The reason is the poor action economy. Clerics should open most fights with a spell, which consumes your Round One standard action and denies you Round One archery. Each round your archer cleric must choose to either be a spell caster or a martial attacker. At low level you mostly choose archery, because you lack enough spell slots. At high level you choose spells, meaning you rarely shoot arrows. Each round you must choose which half of the character to use.

As a result, I played my Cleric of Erastil as a reach cleric. Erastil is a terrific deity for reach clerics, because of the outstanding Plant (Growth) domain. This approach allows you to use both halves of the character every round: cast a spell for your Standard Action, then inflict melee damage via AoOs. You already have a strong front line, so this is probably not what you want to do, but now you know about the option.

My Cleric Of Erastil rode an Axe Beak. This is an extremely strong option, because your double-strength reach screen keeps foes at a distance, thus providing far more defensive power than a shield. Also, your cleric self-buffs apply also buff your axe beak via Share Spells, so combat numbers get absurdly high on both of you.

This approach is so strong that this PC would sometimes eschew her Standard Action. Sometimes she'd position herself then completely waste her Standard Action. Damage from AoOs would still suppress the foes and would often out-damage the raging barbarian. Intelligent Prone foes were apt to surrender or give up, once the prone foe understands that standing up will draw two hard-hitting AoOs each at an extra +8 to hit: basically 30 hp near-guaranteed damage.

[Meirril]

Druids get a bunch of spells and abilities that let them do well in melee combat. While there are a few spells that make them better at ranged combat, they don't get Divine Power or other similar buffs that would improve to hit for ranged combat.

Druid spells can be used for blasting, but it isn't a real blaster class. Also you don't have channeling so if you are a primary healer for the group you'll need to save spells to do that.

Honestly druid seems to undermine the entire idea of a back rank support. And with the party you've got, you'll probably need to do a lot of healing. So positive channeling and being able to spontaneously trade out spells for the cure line will go a long way.

The idea of being a reach cleric has a lot of merit. Clerics need to be close to the people they intend to heal. Cure spells have a range of touch, and channel only has a range of 30'. While you are casting buffs the bow won't do anything to protect you. The longspear will hinder the opposition a bit. If you do decide to make a reach cleric, drop the archetype. You'll need the normal weapon proficiency of a cleric to make this work and armor will be more useful.

[VoodistMonk]

Dip Zen Archer Monk for Wisdom to AC. Pick up Flurry of Bows @1, as well as Precise Shot as a bonus feat, and great saves. Oh, and Perfect Strike.

Two levels and you get Weapon Focus, another bonus feat, and even better saves.

Three levels gets you Point Blank Master for free, and Wisdom to Attack with bows.

A trait can make up for two of the three levels of the dip, if you are concerned about your Caster Level.

Monk's Robes gives you the +2 AC bonus of a level 8 monk, too.

[baggageboy]

Have you considered other options?

Maybe Eldritch archer magus? Granting utility spells, and tons of back row damage.

Maybe Arrowsong minstrel? Still has basic heals and a lot of buffing and decent damage.

Oracle? battle mystery grants proficencies, and you could still pick up channel.

VMC cleric? There's a few fun ways to work this in that can be effective.

[Secret Wizard]

A Nature's Fang Druid has several noticeable upsides over a Cleric.

You get a full power animal companion right off bat... Or you can just get something like the Feather, Fur or Animal domain too if you don't mind waiting for your animal companion.

With your Slayer Talents, you can pick up Improved Precise Shot way faster than the curve, and you have the extra feats to pick up proficiency in the orc hornbow and skip tiny bows altogether.

Another option is to play an elf or half elf and enjoy racial proficiency in bows.

Now, besides the free feats, Nature's Fang comes with Studied Target, which outscales Divine Favor in power since it also applies to spells.

The big downside is that your spells don't quite power up your ranged ability as well as some cleric spells do.

But you do get ranger combat style feats!

[Syries]

Archery takes up so many feats that your martial abilities really won't come online until mid to high levels, especially if you're sinking a feat for boon companion and possibly selective channel too. You have a great martial presence, I recommend you simply focus on spellcasting and allow your animal companion to maintain a bodyguard-like presence around you and keep you safe.

[Dave Justus]

I think an archery cleric is perfectly viable, depending on what you want to do (although I would be going for an Evangelist, not an ecclesitheurge.)

If you play a support/safety cleric, after the first round you probably don't have anything really do in your support role (particularly true with evangelist after level 7.) You have cast a powerful buff spell to get things started, and then unless things go wrong, you are probably good to go.

Archery lets you contribute quite well, it is a very powerful combat option, and lets you stay back and able to respond if there is a problem, particularly with an animal companion used as a mount, since you can pull out a consumable, move (via your mount) and use it all in one turn.

While the reach build is also strong, it does come with a greater risk that you will be entangled in melee when someone needs help and that makes it harder to respond.