Official conversion tool for PF1 AP's?


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion


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Sorry if this has been answered already. I could not find it on a search. I know I am late to the party, but we are finally getting a group together very soon. I am equally excited about PF2 as I am the published content already around. The AP's look amazing. Will their be a toolkit to easily convert AP content / creatures / difficulty of the older content with the new system? First thing we plan to run is Runelords of course! Also want to try a few of the other AP's for sure. Are we going to be stuck on the older system to make it work well?


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wc5b wrote:
Sorry if this has been answered already. I could not find it on a search. I know I am late to the party, but we are finally getting a group together very soon. I am equally excited about PF2 as I am the published content already around. The AP's look amazing. Will their be a toolkit to easily convert AP content / creatures / difficulty of the older content with the new system? First thing we plan to run is Runelords of course! Also want to try a few of the other AP's for sure. Are we going to be stuck on the older system to make it work well?

There will be some form of conversion guide available shortly after launch, probably as a downloadable file. At least that is the intent at this time. As for actual adventure conversion, it isn't that hard as is: Jason Bulmahn ran a PF1e module with the playtest rules with the only preparation being he replaced the monster stats with ones from the new bestiary. It worked fine.

The only difficulty I can see might be experience points. For PF1 APs I would suggest just leveling up whenever the guide at the start of each adventure recommends leveling up. In other words, the characters level up when they accomplish certain goals and are about to move into a new section of the adventure. It's called the Milestone method of advancement, and it woks pretty well.

Hope this helps. :)


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

It does. I would not expect an official conversion of each AP module. I am sure community ones will pop up. I am just hoping for a basic conversion ruleset like you mention that I could convert NPC's / Bestiary with out much fuss. That would be excellent. Thank you for the response!


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Remember to cut Gold rewards and cost of non-magic items to 1/10th! New economy.


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ChibiNyan wrote:
Remember to cut Gold rewards and cost of non-magic items to 1/10th! New economy.

Remember that the ratio changes across levels! New economic progression.


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I have a feeling that the economic model changes will most definitely be reflected in the conversion guide.


Feros wrote:
I have a feeling that the economic model changes will most definitely be reflected in the conversion guide.

I'm not certain about that. The price changes aren't a simple conversion, some things are relatively higher, others are relatively lower. A conversion factor might approximate things a bit, but apparently it's just a totally new economy. At least judging by the Playtest of course, they might have refined it to more easily map to PF1.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

If some things are higher and some things are lower, that sounds more like balance then an economy change.


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Doktor Weasel wrote:
Feros wrote:
I have a feeling that the economic model changes will most definitely be reflected in the conversion guide.
I'm not certain about that. The price changes aren't a simple conversion, some things are relatively higher, others are relatively lower. A conversion factor might approximate things a bit, but apparently it's just a totally new economy. At least judging by the Playtest of course, they might have refined it to more easily map to PF1.

The conversion is not simple, yet it is manageable. The key is that the party ought to receive the same fraction of their expected wealth.

Quick Method
(1) Keep the items the same.
(2) For cash, gems, and other trade goods, divide the cash value by the PF1 wealth by level for the party's level and multiply by the PF2 wealth by level for the party's level.

Slow Method
(1) Sum up the PF1 cash value of all items, cash, etc.
(2) Divide the total PF1 cash value by the PF1 wealth by level for the party's level and multiply by the PF2 wealth by level for the party's level to obtain the total PF2 cash value.
(3) Keep most of the items the same and subtract their PF2 value from the total PF2 cash value.
(4) Throw in some level-appropriate PF2 items that are not found in PF1 and subtract their value, too.
(5) Convert the remaining PF2 cash value into cash, gems, and other trade goods.


You know, that quick method seems like something that would make a really nice spreadsheet.


Or,
Divide PF1 wealth by 20, then multiply it by the PC's level.

It's not 100% accurate, but works fairly well up to level 15-17, where it starts to diverge too much.


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Eh, I feel like I might go the easiest route myself; dump the PF1e adventure loot and use the recommended loot progression for PF2e, using the original loot as a guideline.


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Ediwir wrote:

Or,

Divide PF1 wealth by 20, then multiply it by the PC's level.

It's not 100% accurate, but works fairly well up to level 15-17, where it starts to diverge too much.

Do you divide by 10 first for that method? To convert gold to silver?


Camellen wrote:
Eh, I feel like I might go the easiest route myself; dump the PF1e adventure loot and use the recommended loot progression for PF2e, using the original loot as a guideline.

This.

It's similar to Mathmuse's methods (which I like) but it has CONSIDERABLY LESS MATH!

Which I like even more.


Roswynn wrote:
Camellen wrote:
Eh, I feel like I might go the easiest route myself; dump the PF1e adventure loot and use the recommended loot progression for PF2e, using the original loot as a guideline.

This.

It's similar to Mathmuse's methods (which I like) but it has CONSIDERABLY LESS MATH!

Which I like even more.

I dunno about that. If you have a target number for loot to hand out, you need to then distribute it between various locations throughout the adventure AND factor in missed loot. Keep in mind, APs tend to pack more than WBL into the adventure with the assumption that not all of it will be found.

Applying a single formula to any found treasure to adjust its value in the moment requires less thought and planning, IMO.


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This is why It's so tough to do good conversions of AD&D adventures or even 5E. The wealth expectations and game economies are totally different and it just screws everything up, specially in the editions where Gold = XP. You really have to re-do the entire thing yourself using WBL table and figuring out expected level ups.

At this point it's already hours of calculations...


Captain Morgan wrote:

I dunno about that. If you have a target number for loot to hand out, you need to then distribute it between various locations throughout the adventure AND factor in missed loot. Keep in mind, APs tend to pack more than WBL into the adventure with the assumption that not all of it will be found.

Applying a single formula to any found treasure to adjust its value in the moment requires less thought and planning, IMO.

I agree that if you like math, Mathmuse's solutions are very good. I happen to dislike it though, so having an amount to divide following the non-restrictive example of what was there in the original AP is much more attractive to me.


Captain Morgan wrote:
Ediwir wrote:

Or,

Divide PF1 wealth by 20, then multiply it by the PC's level.

It's not 100% accurate, but works fairly well up to level 15-17, where it starts to diverge too much.

Do you divide by 10 first for that method? To convert gold to silver?

No.

Also, this is really useful at times, but mostly I redo the loot table entirely as well - I use this for overflow gold, or wealth that’s not expected to stay. For example, kingdom building costs / bonus finance sent from Restov :)

Paizo Employee Designer

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Honestly I usually have to redo treasure in PF1 for my 6-player group anyway. I've found that converting the whole treasure distribution to PF2 was easier than upping the PF1 treasure by the appropriate amount, mainly because item level makes it easier for me to pick out items that I know people will enjoy and focus my attention on fewer choices.


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Roswynn wrote:
Captain Morgan wrote:

I dunno about that. If you have a target number for loot to hand out, you need to then distribute it between various locations throughout the adventure AND factor in missed loot. Keep in mind, APs tend to pack more than WBL into the adventure with the assumption that not all of it will be found.

Applying a single formula to any found treasure to adjust its value in the moment requires less thought and planning, IMO.

I agree that if you like math, Mathmuse's solutions are very good. I happen to dislike it though, so having an amount to divide following the non-restrictive example of what was there in the original AP is much more attractive to me.

I will have the numbers reduced to a chart of conversion multipliers for each level. I am waiting to see the actual numbers in Pathfinder 2nd Edition rather than the playtest numbers. If possible, I will find a way to simplify the chart. One of the design principles of PF2 was reducing the amount of number crunching, and I will try to keep to that spirit.

Mark Seifter wrote:
Honestly I usually have to redo treasure in PF1 for my 6-player group anyway. I've found that converting the whole treasure distribution to PF2 was easier than upping the PF1 treasure by the appropriate amount, mainly because item level makes it easier for me to pick out items that I know people will enjoy and focus my attention on fewer choices.

And that is an example of how PF2 reduces the number crunching.

I myself hope to keep the original magic items of the Paizo PF1 modules while I convert the values. The items that the party finds are part of the setting and I would not want to dilute that flavor. That goal will just require a little more math, and I like math.

In my previous Pathfinder campaigns, I have had to repeatedly add more treasure. My player characters keep giving it away, returning stolen items to original owners and donating to charity. They mastered the art of teamwork, so function even better than optimized characters. I upgrade the written encounters to challenge them. If they don't have the best magic items, then I don't increase the challenge as much. Therefore, treasure and magic items don't lead to victory and became a matter of roleplaying instead.


I never increase my player's loot in APs despite being parties of 5-6. 20 point buy chars with half-way good builds can easily overcome being under WBL every now and then. Even with this I don't find the combat challenging enough.


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ChibiNyan wrote:
I never increase my player's loot in APs despite being parties of 5-6. 20 point buy chars with half-way good builds can easily overcome being under WBL every now and then. Even with this I don't find the combat challenging enough.

My wife's ninja Ebony Blossom finished the Jade Regent adventure path at 17th level with gear she had acquired at 6th level. She had taken it from an enemy ninja Omoyani that she respected, so it had sentimental value. (Amaya of Westcrown: Night of Frozen Shadows). I gave her a magic ring at 10th level, a token from her ninja clan to acknowledge that she had earned the status of master, but other than that, she eschewed new gear. She took her share of treasure in jewelry and art, which she used as bribes. She did buy new consumables, such as poisons.

At the end of Fires of Creation, the first Iron Gods module, the party donated their reward to the fund to resurrect their dead friend Gerrol Sonder. (Iron Gods among Scientists) Sonder was part of their backstory, but they only saw him during downtime and I never roleplayed a converation with him.

In contrast, my wife once played in another campaign where the GM remarked that her princess character spent money like royalty. She corrected him, "No, I'm spending money like a government."


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I like the rag tag gear you end up with when you only use things you find along the way, and the APs seems good for that. And keeping gear that fit with the roleplay. Like my Bard (Detective) fought until lvl 6 with the same, basic shovel he started with (by then he had a magic rapier, but he developed a certain fondness for the shovel after it saved him from Zombies). Later he got a smith to reforge it into a masterwork Battle Spade.

Liberty's Edge

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Elfteiroh wrote:
I like the rag tag gear you end up with when you only use things you find along the way, and the APs seems good for that. And keeping gear that fit with the roleplay. Like my Bard (Detective) fought until lvl 6 with the same, basic shovel he started with (by then he had a magic rapier, but he developed a certain fondness for the shovel after it saved him from Zombies). Later he got a smith to reforge it into a masterwork Battle Spade.

For a long long time I have wished to play a martial that only equips with loot from vanquished enemies and thrives on this. I hope I can finally create this simply with PF2


The Raven Black wrote:
For a long long time I have wished to play a martial that only equips with loot from vanquished enemies and thrives on this. I hope I can finally create this simply with PF2

Probably with an option from the 2e Unchained - you're not the first to express a preference for wielding whatever the heck is at hand (more or less) without being severely nerfed.

I also remember this was one of the guiding principles for Iron Heroes back in the day - letting martial characters be badasses even with no magic trinkets whatsoever, very pulp style. It would be pretty cool to resurrect the concept as an option for 2e!

Liberty's Edge

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Well, even without optional rules, the ability to swap Runes from one weapon to another does a lot to enable this play style, as does the lack of things like Weapon Focus that artificially restrictyour weapon choices.


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Deadmanwalking wrote:
Well, even without optional rules, the ability to swap Runes from one weapon to another does a lot to enable this play style, as does the lack of things like Weapon Focus that artificially restrictyour weapon choices.

And I prefer having random items that defines some of my actions/powers and may end up being under power than cosmetic items that all have the same bonuses


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Deadmanwalking wrote:
Well, even without optional rules, the ability to swap Runes from one weapon to another does a lot to enable this play style, as does the lack of things like Weapon Focus that artificially restrictyour weapon choices.

In the playtest though many classes advanced faster with a single weapon group instead of all of them, so if you find a different weapon it will still be a suboptimal choice. I don't think that has changed.

Liberty's Edge

Roswynn wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Well, even without optional rules, the ability to swap Runes from one weapon to another does a lot to enable this play style, as does the lack of things like Weapon Focus that artificially restrictyour weapon choices.
In the playtest though many classes advanced faster with a single weapon group instead of all of them, so if you find a different weapon it will still be a suboptimal choice. I don't think that has changed.

It easily could've, but yeah, this is true. Of course, being restricted to one weapon group remains much more broad than being restricted to one weapon (as was often true in PF1).

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Main problem I see here is that you would start beating people with your bare hands before upgrading to their weapon. But progression in unarmed strikes and in weapons still seems worlds apart

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