Rules Reveals from the Oblivion Oath Twitch game! (was sleepy sea cat)


Oblivion Oath

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Silver Crusade

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Huh... The group leveled up to 2nd level, and no info in this thread?


Franz Lunzer wrote:
Huh... The group leveled up to 2nd level, and no info in this thread?

They said they weren't going to sit there and go through their leveled up choices, so we don't really know what they picked. They said as they played, if a new feat came into use they would mention it.

Maybe we will get character sheets for them soon?

Silver Crusade

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Yeah, but that wasn't the only thing, worth mentioning: the +1 weapon reveal comes to mind. (Though I don't remember it good enough to type here)


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I believe that sparked its own thread. But we can say that Talismans are now a thing! (Playtest trinkets)
They seem stronger, although not to the level of focused Resonance Test trinkets.


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Darkwynters wrote:

Spoiler 83 has explorer’s clothing:

Explorer’s Clothing: Adventurers who don’t wear armor travel in durable clothing. Though it’s not armor and uses your unarmored defense proficiency, it still has a Dex Cap and can grant an item bonus to AC if etched with potency runes.

"I'm too agile for my clothes!"


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David knott 242 wrote:
Darkwynters wrote:

Spoiler 83 has explorer’s clothing:

Explorer’s Clothing: Adventurers who don’t wear armor travel in durable clothing. Though it’s not armor and uses your unarmored defense proficiency, it still has a Dex Cap and can grant an item bonus to AC if etched with potency runes.

"I'm too agile for my clothes!"

There's a reason gymnasts wear leotards and not blue jeans.


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j b 200 wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:
Darkwynters wrote:

Spoiler 83 has explorer’s clothing:

Explorer’s Clothing: Adventurers who don’t wear armor travel in durable clothing. Though it’s not armor and uses your unarmored defense proficiency, it still has a Dex Cap and can grant an item bonus to AC if etched with potency runes.

"I'm too agile for my clothes!"

There's a reason gymnasts wear leotards and not blue jeans.

But they have no problem doing backflips with a 10 lb shield strapped to their arm. ;)


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j b 200 wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:
Darkwynters wrote:

Spoiler 83 has explorer’s clothing:

Explorer’s Clothing: Adventurers who don’t wear armor travel in durable clothing. Though it’s not armor and uses your unarmored defense proficiency, it still has a Dex Cap and can grant an item bonus to AC if etched with potency runes.

"I'm too agile for my clothes!"

There's a reason gymnasts wear leotards and not blue jeans.

But if even leotards have a Dex cap -- there would be a very strong reason not to let PC Dex scores get too high....


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David knott 242 wrote:
j b 200 wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:
Darkwynters wrote:

Spoiler 83 has explorer’s clothing:

Explorer’s Clothing: Adventurers who don’t wear armor travel in durable clothing. Though it’s not armor and uses your unarmored defense proficiency, it still has a Dex Cap and can grant an item bonus to AC if etched with potency runes.

"I'm too agile for my clothes!"

There's a reason gymnasts wear leotards and not blue jeans.

But if even leotards have a Dex cap -- there would be a very strong reason not to let PC Dex scores get too high....

Or a very strong reason to fight naked... :P

Liberty's Edge

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David knott 242 wrote:

But if even leotards have a Dex cap -- there would be a very strong reason not to let PC Dex scores get too high....

Normal clothes have no Dex cap. They are also not durable enough to enchant as armor. Explorer's Clothes are a specific thing that both has a Dex cap and can be enchanted.


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At this point my guess is that explorer's clothes are the new haramaki; little to no protection and really high dex cap (probs not infinite thou).


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Deadmanwalking wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:

But if even leotards have a Dex cap -- there would be a very strong reason not to let PC Dex scores get too high....

Normal clothes have no Dex cap. They are also not durable enough to enchant as armor. Explorer's Clothes are a specific thing that both has a Dex cap and can be enchanted.

I feel like the Dex cap is probably just such to prevent that thing where a level 20 Dex character with Bracers of Armor could have higher Dex+Armor than a bro in Full Plate.

Actually wait, the clothes don't give AC like Bracers. Maybe it's just future-proofing to stop it from ever outclassing other armor.


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Edge93 wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:

But if even leotards have a Dex cap -- there would be a very strong reason not to let PC Dex scores get too high....

Normal clothes have no Dex cap. They are also not durable enough to enchant as armor. Explorer's Clothes are a specific thing that both has a Dex cap and can be enchanted.

I feel like the Dex cap is probably just such to prevent that thing where a level 20 Dex character with Bracers of Armor could have higher Dex+Armor than a bro in Full Plate.

Actually wait, the clothes don't give AC like Bracers. Maybe it's just future-proofing to stop it from ever outclassing other armor.

You can enchant them so they can have a magical bonus like any other armor.


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Franz Lunzer wrote:
Huh... The group leveled up to 2nd level, and no info in this thread?

Well, we know Mykah has Quick Identification. That's probably the same.

Sword crit specialization is the same. Aside from that, no information has come up regarding their choices, except that Zel sounds like he's still only trained in Survival - Wis 1 + level 2 + proficiency 2 would make trained on the 5 I heard.


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Elfteiroh wrote:
Edge93 wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:

But if even leotards have a Dex cap -- there would be a very strong reason not to let PC Dex scores get too high....

Normal clothes have no Dex cap. They are also not durable enough to enchant as armor. Explorer's Clothes are a specific thing that both has a Dex cap and can be enchanted.

I feel like the Dex cap is probably just such to prevent that thing where a level 20 Dex character with Bracers of Armor could have higher Dex+Armor than a bro in Full Plate.

Actually wait, the clothes don't give AC like Bracers. Maybe it's just future-proofing to stop it from ever outclassing other armor.

You can enchant them so they can have a magical bonus like any other armor.

I meant base AC. No armor in the Playtest can have a base+Dex higher than 7 except for Bracers of Armor on a +7 Dex mod character, and I was thinking the Dex cap on clothes is to ensure that can't be surpassed by anything that might happen in the future.


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Edge93 wrote:
Elfteiroh wrote:
Edge93 wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:

But if even leotards have a Dex cap -- there would be a very strong reason not to let PC Dex scores get too high....

Normal clothes have no Dex cap. They are also not durable enough to enchant as armor. Explorer's Clothes are a specific thing that both has a Dex cap and can be enchanted.

I feel like the Dex cap is probably just such to prevent that thing where a level 20 Dex character with Bracers of Armor could have higher Dex+Armor than a bro in Full Plate.

Actually wait, the clothes don't give AC like Bracers. Maybe it's just future-proofing to stop it from ever outclassing other armor.

You can enchant them so they can have a magical bonus like any other armor.
I meant base AC. No armor in the Playtest can have a base+Dex higher than 7 except for Bracers of Armor on a +7 Dex mod character, and I was thinking the Dex cap on clothes is to ensure that can't be surpassed by anything that might happen in the future.

Well, from what we know, this is not for all clothes, but one "set" that is specially more "durable" than normal clothes.


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Not really a rules thing, but I've been thinking about the pacing in this campaign.

We've seen 10 hour long episodes, which is roughly 2-3 normal sessions, I'd guess?
From what I remember, there've been the following fights:
Undead on the ship
Thugs in the inn
The sewers:
rat swarms
oozes
Otyugh (handled with diplomacy)
Razmir cultists

The first two were encounters on their own, with plenty of time to rest before and after. The sewer sequence seems about on the scale of a PFS scenario - 4 encounters with no real chance to rest up.

That seems really sparse to me by the standards of most modules or scenarios. But it does match my normal experience playing homebrew adventures - less of the meatgrinder, more mystery and interaction and exploration between fight sequences.


thejeff wrote:

Not really a rules thing, but I've been thinking about the pacing in this campaign.

We've seen 10 hour long episodes, which is roughly 2-3 normal sessions, I'd guess?
From what I remember, there've been the following fights:
Undead on the ship
Thugs in the inn
The sewers:
rat swarms
oozes
Otyugh (handled with diplomacy)
Razmir cultists

The first two were encounters on their own, with plenty of time to rest before and after. The sewer sequence seems about on the scale of a PFS scenario - 4 encounters with no real chance to rest up.

That seems really sparse to me by the standards of most modules or scenarios. But it does match my normal experience playing homebrew adventures - less of the meatgrinder, more mystery and interaction and exploration between fight sequences.

APs seem to follow a similar pattern in my experience. I think scenarios and modules are probably tailored to be something you wrap up in one sitting, after all.

Liberty's Edge

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Jason may be using a different number of xp to level up, too; they talked about that being a sliding scale for your group if you wanted. Could be that it's 500-750 xp between levels instead of 1,000. Those behind-the-scenes things we don't really know, but it makes sense for 1 hour office sessions to not have to take 1,000xp to ding


Not so much the amount of xp per level, but the combat to non-combat time.


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He did mention in the first (maybe 2nd) episode that they are on the fast track. so instead of 1000 to level, only 800 needed.


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OI! That was an episode! Death rules much better explained (as well as DOOMED!).


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Just F in this episode... he will be missed.

Silver Crusade

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F


Haven't watched the new one yet, but this reminds me: how much have we worked out about Iruxis as an Ancestry from Zel? I know his initial ability scores we saw for him had a mistake, but I haven't gone back and seen what his new scores are to see if it has any clues to his ancestry boosts.

Beyond boosts he has claws and something swimming related, I think a full blown swim speed? I'm guessing the claws are a heritage and the swimming is an ancestry feat. I believe the claws were agile, but not finesse-- though they might have been finesse but not agile.

I have a lizardfolk in one of my converted campaigns, and we have just been having him use half-orc mechanics reskinned. The PF1 lizardfolk were so options lite it didn't really seem to matter, but actual lizard rules now feel achingly close. I'd think that between the bestiary, Oblivion Oath, and general ancestry examples we should be able to put something together as a community.


Let's see...

Zel Stats are:

STR 12
DEX 18
CON 12
INT 10
WIS 12
CHA 14

So my guess is:

+Free(DEX), +CON, + CHA, -INT Ancestry

+DEX, INT Background

+DEX Class

+DEX, WIS, CHA, STR Free Boost

I am pretty sure that mental stat is charisma, but the physical one could be STR or CON and INT is definitively the flaw.

Zel have Swin speed of 15ft, Claw attack, Can hold breath longer, my guess is that the claw attack is from the Ancestry and the swin speed + hold breath is from being a Riverland Iruxi, so it's only missing the feat.


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Captain Morgan wrote:

Haven't watched the new one yet, but this reminds me: how much have we worked out about Iruxis as an Ancestry from Zel? I know his initial ability scores we saw for him had a mistake, but I haven't gone back and seen what his new scores are to see if it has any clues to his ancestry boosts.

Beyond boosts he has claws and something swimming related, I think a full blown swim speed? I'm guessing the claws are a heritage and the swimming is an ancestry feat. I believe the claws were agile, but not finesse-- though they might have been finesse but not agile.

I have a lizardfolk in one of my converted campaigns, and we have just been having him use half-orc mechanics reskinned. The PF1 lizardfolk were so options lite it didn't really seem to matter, but actual lizard rules now feel achingly close. I'd think that between the bestiary, Oblivion Oath, and general ancestry examples we should be able to put something together as a community.

I think if he has a swim speed that's because of his Riverland heritage, and his claws should be his ancestry feat for 1st level. The claws should be agile btw, as usual for natural weapons, not finesse.

Regarding stats... I'd posit:

Background boosts - Dex, Cha
Class boost - Dex
Free boosts - Str, Dex, Con, Cha
and thus Ancestry boosts - Dex, Wis, floating boost to Int to nix the penalty

Liberty's Edge

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I'd guess the Iruxi as Con and Wis, personally (the stats still work out that way if he uses his Ancestry floating stat on Dex and one of his four free ones on Int).

And yeah, the Swim Speed is a Heritage thing, it's mentioned in the episode where the ship sinks. The Claws are probably a Feat, agreed, and are both Finesse and Agile, I believe.


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F.


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How strangely convenient that Qundle died just as Owen is leaving Paizo.

Poor Qundle.


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Deadmanwalking wrote:

I'd guess the Iruxi as Con and Wis, personally (the stats still work out that way if he uses his Ancestry floating stat on Dex and one of his four free ones on Int).

And yeah, the Swim Speed is a Heritage thing, it's mentioned in the episode where the ship sinks. The Claws are probably a Feat, agreed, and are both Finesse and Agile, I believe.

I agree on Con and Wis, but don't you think claws with agile and finesse is a bit too much, DMW?

Anyways, just finished watching the episode... I feel like crying.

F.

Best of luck, Owen.


Agile and finesse usually go together, the claws probably aren't better than short swords which also have vesitle.

I would think they boost str, because str does nothing for a rogue.


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Zaister wrote:

How strangely convenient that Qundle died just as Owen is leaving Paizo.

Poor Qundle.

I also thought this! Was it an organic coincidence, or...

Either way, RIP Qundle </3

Silver Crusade

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Ngodrup wrote:
Zaister wrote:

How strangely convenient that Qundle died just as Owen is leaving Paizo.

Poor Qundle.

I also thought this! Was it an organic coincidence, or...

Was Owen leaving Paizo to try and save Qundle???

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F.

:P


I don't know, claws seem awfully biological to be an ancestry feat. I suppose they could be a 1st level only feat ala dark vision on half orcs. But what if they are just an inherent part of the ancestry to make up for not having enhanced senses?

Strength/Wisdom seems like good guesses for the ability boosts, seeing as there isn't much reason to put a boost there otherwise.


I still think that Wis is not the ancestry boost, his 12 wis smells like token boost to not totally suck in Will saves.

Liberty's Edge

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I think 'claws as good as a short sword' are a fair Ancestry Feat, though I actually seem to remember them only being d4s, which would be more Dagger-level. That memory could be off, though.

Kyrone wrote:
I still think that Wis is not the ancestry boost, his 12 wis smells like token boost to not totally suck in Will saves.

Rogues have Expert Will Saves in PF2. That's a +5 at 1st level with Wis 10.

Lizardfolk have also always had good Wis scores. And at least one of the 14+ stats must be an Ancestry boost, so it's definitely one of Dex, Con, or Cha, and no more than one of Str and Wis. I think Wis is more likely than Cha for a mental stat, and Con and Dex both more likely than Str for a physical one.


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When he used his claws in an earlier episode, I thought he used STR instead of DEX. His bonus to attacks was much lower, unless I'm remembering wrong.


Kyrone wrote:
I still think that Wis is not the ancestry boost, his 12 wis smells like token boost to not totally suck in Will saves.

By that

I'd guess wisdon because the iruxi seem to be treated as available very naturalistic species, and one that is considered kind of sketchy, which leans more into wisdom and away from Charisma. They also have higher Wisdom in the bestiary, but it might not be worth reading into that.

Also, in the bestiary their claws do 1d4 and are agile, and have +2 to hit compared to their jaws which aren't agile but do 1d4. So the claws might indeed be finesse too, but it us hard to say because ability scores don't factor into the bestiary much.


Captain Morgan wrote:

Also, in the bestiary their claws do 1d4 and are agile, and have +2 to hit compared to their jaws which aren't agile but do 1d4. So the claws might indeed be finesse too, but it us hard to say because ability scores don't factor into the bestiary much.

Looking at the animal companion page from the spoiler images, only the horse's attacks aren't finesse. The wolf, snake and dino all have finesse attacks.


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Mechalibur wrote:
When he used his claws in an earlier episode, I thought he used STR instead of DEX. His bonus to attacks was much lower, unless I'm remembering wrong.

No, you're remembering correctly. But afterward Jason confirmed that that was a mistake. See upthread:

Jason Bulmahn wrote:
ChibiNyan wrote:
Zel's claw natural weapons have the Agile property but NOT the finesse property. This means you can't use Dex to hit with them anymore. This is really big if it's consistent for all Claws.
Turns out this was probably an error, the claws are finesse weapons. Fortunately, I don't think it would have made a difference the way he was rolling.

Liberty's Edge

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Zaister wrote:

How strangely convenient that Qundle died just as Owen is leaving Paizo.

Poor Qundle.

I dunno. It seemed a bit staged to me, but maybe it was just a coincidence.

Anyway, poor Quindle. He was really a cool character.


I think I'm gonna set a goal for myself to make an Iruxi option we can use when we convert to PF2. Riverlands will be one heritage. Another will probably pack a tree based climb speed like we have seen for some other heritages. And a 3rd will be inspired by the beast totem Animal Skin and Mountain Stance feats, providing an unarmored AC bonus with a Dex cap. Big tanky lizardfolk feel pretty iconic, and they don't wear armo. Not sure what the 4th heritage will be.

I'm still not sure if claws are an ancestry feat or an inherent feature, but Terrain Advantage will definitely be another ancestry feat. Not sure beyond that though, need to read up more on their culture and see what the final ancestries look like.

Silver Crusade

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NightTrace wrote:

F.

:P

THIS WAS YOUR FAULT SIR


I am confused by that death too. If Jason and Owen agreed on killing his character in advance, I would expect something bit more heroic and memorable. Also I don't think Jason is a fan of fudging rolls, so I wonder what their plan was if it was not staged.

Maybe now after what happened Qundle is going to be somehow brought back from death and that is the reason the death seemed quite "ordinary"? One never knows what will happen with that strange key nearby. Maybe normal death is the goal as not everything has to be super epic.

What I know is that I am very curious now about what is going to happen next. I guess that is the goal of the show, so mission accomplished :).

RIP Qundle. It was an interesting character and a very nice showcase that goblin PC doesn't have to annoy other party members :).


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Kubetz wrote:
I am confused by that death too ... I would expect something bit more heroic and memorable. Also I don't think Jason is a fan of fudging rolls, so I wonder what their plan was if it was not staged.

On the Discord, Jason offers the following:

Jason wrote:
I can assure you all that there were a few ways that session could have ended, but it was entirely decided by dice and player choice. That last roll was a natural 19

Nothing about it bothers me, whether it was the intended result or even a fudged die or something like that. Of course I believe Jason when he offers the above—there's absolutely no reason for him to lie, he's always been forthright when interacting with the community, and I'm not out here to make conspiracy theories—I'm just saying I wouldn't have a problem even if it were fully "because it needed to happen."

I thought it was a great story development. The character had to go, he got a bit of a heroic moment, a memorable death, and the doom & "crumbles to ash" bit really ups the stakes on the curse/key thing in a way that was necessary—they've been hanging out with the key for a while and it felt kind of insignificant/decorative. Well, no longer.

So bravo to Jason & the party. Looking forward to what comes next.

(Admittedly, my satisfaction with the event may be helped along by the fact that it matches my own preferred style of gameplay: deadly and let-the-dice-fall-where-they-may.)

Silver Crusade

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I know I'll always remember those last words... and then BOOM, healing nova. I liked it, it felt right for the moment (staged or not), and I'll miss Qundle and Owen, both.

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