Spheres of Power Transformation Clarification: too good to be true?


Advice and Rules Questions


transformation:
Benefit: Choose one Alteration sphere talent that grants a form but does not cost a spell point. As a full-round action, you may assume the form of a single creature whose type corresponds to this form talent (see Creature Types and Form Talents on the Alteration page) per the shapeshift ability of the Alteration sphere as a supernatural ability. The same creature (wolf, spider, treant, etc.) is mimicked and the appearance of that creature is retained each time. The chosen form may be the same as your base size or else Medium or Small. When assuming your chosen form, you gain the chosen size. This transformation lasts until you choose to revert to your original form as a full-round action. You gain all the abilities granted by this form (movement modes, natural attacks, special abilities, etc.) but but do not gain any traits from the Alteration sphere as part of this transformation. Treat your HD as your caster level for the purposes of this effect. This is a polymorph effect.

Additionally, you gain the shapechanger subtype.

Special: You may gain traits from the Blank Form option of the shapeshift ability of the Alteration sphere while under the effects of this feat even though it is a polymorph effect. This feat counts as possessing the Alteration sphere and the chosen form-granting talent for the purpose of meeting feat prerequisites. If you possess the Perfect Imitation talent or Shifting Disguise feat, you may make cosmetic changes to your Transformation form per the base Alteration sphere trait.

From what I understand, you can basically at will transform into a creature matching any 1 form talent's description.

For example my Aasimar could become a Balisse or some other celestial and gain the ability to fly and brand people, or some other form of angel.
my Dragon bloodline anything can become a Dragon to fly, breathe fire, and the like from level 1.
And they can transform at will as a full round.
and they can later grab hybrid transformation to do this and still use their own abilities
and can grab Improved transformation to add their choice of blank form improvements so long as they have the talents (and some even if they don't)
Am I reading this wrong or is this basically the best feat in the game?


Transformation is really nice, but the limit on traits means it's not quite as amazing as it might look at first glance. XD Dragon Transformation, for example, doesn't innately have flight. You need at least Improved Transformation to really make most concepts work, but it's really neat all the same.

(I like avian scouting forms, myself.)


GM Rednal wrote:

Transformation is really nice, but the limit on traits means it's not quite as amazing as it might look at first glance. XD Dragon Transformation, for example, doesn't innately have flight. You need at least Improved Transformation to really make most concepts work, but it's really neat all the same.

(I like avian scouting forms, myself.)

It just said that you gain "You gain all the abilities granted by this form (movement modes, natural attacks, special abilities, etc.)"... Oh I think I get what you mean now. I'm not choosing the form of a specific creature (Example, I don't choose that I am replicating a juvenile Red Dragon. it's more I'm just gaining the dragon base form)


You get the base form as described in the transformation talent you choose - which is still pretty decent for dragon transformaiton, mind. XD But yeah. It is very specific in what you get with the base feat. You do NOT get to just mimic any creature in the bestiary and get all its powers.


GM Rednal wrote:
You get the base form as described in the transformation talent you choose - which is still pretty decent for dragon transformaiton, mind. XD But yeah. It is very specific in what you get with the base feat. You do NOT get to just mimic any creature in the bestiary and get all its powers.

Yeah I see that now.. Although the part of any concept I had that gets messed up by this is the fact that it's redundant, rather than it being less powerful.

I imagined that the character using Dragon Transformation Transformation would be a Dragonblooded Mortal, which already gets 2 claws, a bite, a breath weapon, Natural armor (though not as much, but you can still wear armor over that natural armor as far as I know), and eventually wings. Kinda making it that I can spend 2 feats for something that my base abilities just do with enough time. I mean I guess I could think of some cheese with Retain Ability and Hybrid transformation (Namely questioning whether I could keep my Dragon Wings ability when using my Dragon Form by using hybrid.)

Liberty's Edge

That's an awful lot to get from a basic race. What is that from?


ShadowcatX wrote:
That's an awful lot to get from a basic race. What is that from?

It's not a race, it's a Hedgewitch Archetype.


And some more questions I realized about Transformation and Alteration in general.

1: What are the rules on forms that have arms? (Anarchaic, Axiomatic, Celestial, Fey, and Fiendish).
If I used transformation with one of these forms, could I still use my weapons or armor? (I understand that your armor melds into your new form, but if your new form would actually be able to hold a weapon could I use it? Although on armor I don't really think the Wild property would fit any character design I'd make for them, since the 2 that come to mind are "Dragon Shifter that uses a hauberk when not being a dragon" and "Paladin that transforms into a celestial")

2: Alignment and alteration. Imagine hypothetically I created a Tiefling Fighter or Paladin that has the Transformation feat, and uses it to become a Fiend, and later took Improved Transformation to add the Fiendish Armor trait to it. Would using that transformation be considered an evil act? Would my Paladin Fall from using these dark powers, even if they're using them for the greater good, or even acting as kinslayer and murdering demons with it?

Liberty's Edge

Warriorking9001 wrote:
ShadowcatX wrote:
That's an awful lot to get from a basic race. What is that from?
It's not a race, it's a Hedgewitch Archetype.

I like that. Thank you.


Regarding shapeshifting and weapons, many forms explicitly state that it gives you arms with hands that can manipulate objects just like a human can. These forms can weild weapons. Of course, you your equipment melds with your new form, so you will need to drop the weapons to the ground (or hand them off to someone else) before the shapeshift.

Shapeshifting does not state that it has any effect on your alignment. For talents like Fiendish Transformation, just because you radiate an evil aura doesn't mean your alignment is evil.


Grovestrider wrote:


Shapeshifting does not state that it has any effect on your alignment. For talents like Fiendish Transformation, just because you radiate an evil aura doesn't mean your alignment is evil.

I just thought ask because if ANYTHING in spheres of power was going to objectively have the [Evil] tag, it would have been the ones directly connected to demons (fiendish transformation, aligned creature (evil) emphasize belief (using evil), fate (Protection from Good essentially)

(Sidebar: I say Objectively because there are a lot of other powers that could get the Evil descriptor depending on the campaign, but it again depends on the campaign. Some GMs might say that something like Dominate Person (And by extension the Command Charm) is an inherently evil spell, or say that Blood Puppet is for the same reason (I mean hell, the Original Blood Caster, Hama, was seen as a pretty major and terrifying villain in her story, and one of the protagonists speccing into the blood sphere and learning Blood Puppet just so she could defeat her was a pretty big deal for her character arc, and caused her to break down into tears.), and standard PF would say that the Death sphere would probably get an evil descriptor, although I imagine it to be more of a "highly distasteful but not execution worthy" act.)

Liberty's Edge

I assume the character arc stuff is in the books? Sometimes I forget stuff exists that isn't on the wiki.


ShadowcatX wrote:
I assume the character arc stuff is in the books? Sometimes I forget stuff exists that isn't on the wiki.

Admittedly... I wasn't referencing any Spheres material at all. I was actually referencing AtLA, specifically "The Puppetmaster". Hama was the villain of the episode, using their water bending abilities to control peoples' bodies through their blood in a way that's basically identical to the Blood Puppet talent. Hence I called her the "Original Blood Caster" because I think it's safe to say that she was a major inspiration for the blood puppet talent in particular, and the more general concept of manipulating blood flow brings her to my mind.

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