How soon can we expect a Beginner Box


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion


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Are we likely to see one before the Holidays?


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Doubtful. To do that, Paizo would have to already be sure that they need one and what it needs to address. Feedback from many customers playing the new game would be required for that.


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David knott 242 wrote:

Doubtful. To do that, Paizo would have to already be sure that they need one and what it needs to address. Feedback from many customers playing the new game would be required for that.

On the other hand it can be helpful to give players that are on the fence, or have never heard of pathfinder an affordable way to try the system out


They also said in an interview they are not too interested in making one. Their goal back then was to make the Core Ruelbook good enough to not need a beginner box with "simpler" rules. And if they did end up making it, it would use the full core rules anyway.

So it boils down to a very pretty lv1 module with props, which I guess would be great.


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My guess is 2021.


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I am very much hoping that 2e will have its equivalent of Crypt of the Everflame, which in my opinion is the single best "get the players together and teach them the system in a fun way" module ever written.

I've run it 3-4 times for as many different groups of newbies and it never stops being fun.

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MaxAstro wrote:

I am very much hoping that 2e will have its equivalent of Crypt of the Everflame, which in my opinion is the single best "get the players together and teach them the system in a fun way" module ever written.

I've run it 3-4 times for as many different groups of newbies and it never stops being fun.

Fall of Plaguestone seems intended to fill this role. Lvl 1-3, deliberately introduces the mechanics, story is built around "how the party got together." Throw in some pregenerated characters and some pawns and you're good.

Now, I also think that a "starter pack" like product would be cool as a more accessible way for new players to get into the game on their own:

flipmat, pawns, one or two adventures, basic rules pamphlet akin to a good boardgame rather than 640 pages, pregenerated characters with a limited set of level-up options

... so basically the beginners box but without the simplified rules, just rules limited in scope. (Which is what I believe Jason or Erik has said when asked about it. (I forget which interview))

As long as the kit contains a few things useful once folks graduate to the full ruleset (map, pawns, dice), I could see this being something folks would enjoy.

But who knows whether it's a good fit for the market (demand, pricing levels, production costs, etc.). I'm sure Paizo has a pretty good eye on that.


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ChibiNyan wrote:
They also said in an interview they are not too interested in making one. Their goal back then was to make the Core Ruelbook good enough to not need a beginner box with "simpler" rules. And if they did end up making it, it would use the full core rules anyway.

I think that's a mistake. New player acquisition is going to be more important to Paizo than ever, and some sort of integrated starter set serves a valuable purpose in lowing the barrier to entry. A 600+ page book -- no matter how well presented -- is intimidating to people new to the hobby.


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Yup, not releasing with one is a mistake and thinking they can go a long time without one is a bigger mistake imo.

5e sells/sold a lot of its starter boxes not because the system needs to be simpler but because it is a perceivable good starting point for new GMs and players.

The other product that should come out asap is a similar book to the pf1e strategy guide. Something that is aimed at new players and can act as a guide for them rather than relying on a similarly new GM.

Advertise the latter in the former and you have a winning combination. Same with advertising the setting book in the beginner box and pitching it to the GM.

Pathfinder 2e is easy to make characters for but it looks daunting to a person who doesn't play rpgs (and even some 5e fans that i have found). Having guides to themed builds laid out in the 1e style choose your path themed text format is something the game could use.

For the record, 640page rule books don't elicit squeals of joy unless a weirdo system gobbling grognard is the one picking them up 90% of the time (I am one of these weirdos, but I also run for new players in a variety of pnp games on a regularly basis)


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The Gleeful Grognard wrote:
Yup, not releasing with one is a mistake and thinking they can go a long time without one is a bigger mistake imo.

PF1e released without one and it was two full years before it finally did come out, and PF1 succeeded fairly well. It may not be what you'd like them to do, but it's hard to define something that has worked for them in the past as being a mistake in the present.

Quote:
The other product that should come out asap is a similar book to the pf1e strategy guide. Something that is aimed at new players and can act as a guide for them rather than relying on a similarly new GM.

I still say it's hard to justify publishing a book ASAP that is just a glorified reprint of half the material in the book you're still trying to sell copies of.

There are players who might still buy a CRB in its early life cycle who would see an SG and opt instead to spend less money and just buy the SG. From a business standpoint I don't see the logic in competing with yourself in such a manner - but I'm not Paizo so who knows.

Quote:
For the record, 640page rule books don't elicit squeals of joy unless a weirdo system gobbling grognard is the one picking them up 90% of the time

I saw more non grognards than you'd expect see the cover art of the CRB in the SF/Fantasy aisle at Barnes & Noble and then ooh and ah at the art and layout of PF1. It can definitely happen.


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dirtypool wrote:
It may not be what you'd like them to do, but it's hard to define something that has worked for them in the past as being a mistake in the present.

That's so general as to be meaningless. What does "worked" mean, exactly? Could things have worked better? Have the circumstances changed meaningfully in the last 10 years? Etc.

Does a starter set have to be job #1? Of course not. But personally, I can see very few scenarios in which a game with a 640 page rule book wouldn't benefit from having something with a lower barrier to entry. In fact, I'd be very surprised if there isn't a 2E Beginner Box eventually. I think I'll wait to see a direct statement to the contrary from Paizo, because frankly it's difficult to imagine them this one so wrong.

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According to the Dice and Slice podcast, which claimed to have heard from Paizo directly, it's tentatively scheduled for 2020.


Shisumo wrote:
According to the Dice and Slice podcast, which claimed to have heard from Paizo directly, it's tentatively scheduled for 2020.

Sweet. That actually seems much more plausible.


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Shisumo wrote:
According to the Dice and Slice podcast, which claimed to have heard from Paizo directly, it's tentatively scheduled for 2020.

I knew it was unrealistic to expect it for 2019, lets just hope its early 2020.


Biztak wrote:
Shisumo wrote:
According to the Dice and Slice podcast, which claimed to have heard from Paizo directly, it's tentatively scheduled for 2020.
I knew it was unrealistic to expect it for 2019, lets just hope its early 2020.

I think getting it out by the one-year mark would be impressive, especially given the crazy volume of stuff slated for launch day (but of course the sooner the better).


bugleyman wrote:
That's so general as to be meaningless.

No more or less meaningful than armchair quarterbacking what’s a mistake or not regarding books that haven’t been released yet.

Quote:
What does "worked" mean, exactly?

In this case I define “worked” as going from not existing at all to being the number 2 selling game in the industry in a few short months with their 576 page core book.

Quote:
Could things have worked better? Have the circumstances changed meaningfully in the last 10 years? Etc.

Of course it could have gone better, but is the difference between being #1 and being #2 publishing a beginner box? Maybe, maybe not.

Quote:
Does a starter set have to be job #1? Of course not.

Right, the person I was responding to was saying it was a mistake that a beginner box wasn’t ready for launch. I was literally responding to the notion of it being job number one and was in no way saying that it shouldn’t exist.

Quote:
But personally, I can see very few scenarios in which a game with a 640 page rule book wouldn't benefit from having something with a lower barrier to entry. In fact, I'd be very surprised if there isn't a 2E Beginner Box eventually.

I fully expect they’ll do one and I’ve read 2020 and 2021. PF1’s Beginner Box came out in 2011, 2 years after launch. If 2020/21 is accurate it sounds like their PF2 plan is fairly consistent with what they did on PF1

Quote:

I think I'll wait to see a direct statement to the contrary from Paizo, because frankly it's difficult to imagine them this one so wrong.

This is where the other poster lost me as well how is what they are doing “wrong?” Or “a mistake?” They launched a 500+ page game and it sold well then a few years later they dropped a beginners box and reigned supreme in sales for a few years but never dipped below #2. They seem to following that same path with 2E.

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While the D&D starter set is fine for what it is, I much prefer the Pathfinder Beginner Box, which does a good job of covering all the bases of the game. That includes creating characters, playing the game, running the game, and creating your own adventures.

I strongly hope that 2nd edition comes out with a similarly strong Beginner Box. Considering that Starfinder is getting one, I can only assume and hope that a Pathfinder 2nd edition Beginner Box might be in store for us in the future.

Silver Crusade

Shisumo wrote:
According to the Dice and Slice podcast, which claimed to have heard from Paizo directly, it's tentatively scheduled for 2020.

Interesting. Does anyone have a link to the specific episode, and/or a timestamp for this discussion?


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Shisumo wrote:
According to the Dice and Slice podcast, which claimed to have heard from Paizo directly, it's tentatively scheduled for 2020.

Cool. I was clearly too pessimistic.

I’ll be impressed if they manage to achieve that since they only just sent the book to the printers and won’t have any meaningful feedback on which bits beginners struggle with for another six months at least.

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Charlie Brooks wrote:
While the D&D starter set is fine for what it is, I much prefer the Pathfinder Beginner Box, which does a good job of covering all the bases of the game. That includes creating characters, playing the game, running the game, and creating your own adventures.

To be fair all of these are possible with the D&D starter set because the basic rules are available for free on the wotc website along with plenty of articles for how to start. Don’t even need to buy anything going that route. The starter set points players in that dorection if they want to make their own PCs.

Also, 5e has a starter set that just came out tied to Netflix Stranger Things. With the new season coming out in July, I suspect many more fans new to rpgs will pick up the stranger things set not to mention those who already own the original (the Stranger Things set should arrive any day for me now lol)

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Joe M. wrote:
Shisumo wrote:
According to the Dice and Slice podcast, which claimed to have heard from Paizo directly, it's tentatively scheduled for 2020.
Interesting. Does anyone have a link to the specific episode, and/or a timestamp for this discussion?

No timestamp, but the episode is here:

Discussion Stream, Episode 5

Silver Crusade

Shisumo wrote:
Joe M. wrote:
Shisumo wrote:
According to the Dice and Slice podcast, which claimed to have heard from Paizo directly, it's tentatively scheduled for 2020.
Interesting. Does anyone have a link to the specific episode, and/or a timestamp for this discussion?

No timestamp, but the episode is here:

Discussion Stream, Episode 5

Thanks! Starts at 20:33:

Quote:
They did tell us that we can expect maybe some type of Pathfinder Second Edition Beginner Box in 2020.


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Joe M. wrote:
Shisumo wrote:
Joe M. wrote:
Shisumo wrote:
According to the Dice and Slice podcast, which claimed to have heard from Paizo directly, it's tentatively scheduled for 2020.
Interesting. Does anyone have a link to the specific episode, and/or a timestamp for this discussion?

No timestamp, but the episode is here:

Discussion Stream, Episode 5

Thanks! Starts at 20:33:

Quote:
They did tell us that we can expect maybe some type of Pathfinder Second Edition Beginner Box in 2020.

Dice and Slice Podcast here. First off thanks for the shout out.

Secondly, I would like to clarify the starter set thing cause it kind of got out of hand later with other interviews but basically while our information did come from a Paizo rep it seems like it was intended to be more speculation than confirmation. There was apparently something lost in translation somewhere.Take that information as you will :).

Silver Crusade

Brandcolt wrote:


Secondly, I would like to clarify the starter set thing cause it kind of got out of hand later with other interviews but basically while our information did come from a Paizo rep it seems like it was intended to be more speculation than confirmation. There was apparently something lost in translation somewhere.Take that information as you will :).

Thanks for the clarification! Paizo is usually pretty tight-lipped about future releases, I was surprised they might've let something out like this. Makes more sense it might've been more just speculation.

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