Doesn't the PFS have lawyers. VOs are employees not volunteers


Pathfinder Society


My friendly local Venture Officer mentioned that he had to sign a contract to become one. Now for those not familiar with contract law for a contract needs to contain two elements to be legally valid: All parties must be in agreement (after an offer has been made by one party and accepted by the other). Something of value must be exchanged -- such as cash, services, or goods (or a promise to exchange such an item) -- for something else of value.

Thanks to the class action OU volunteers are employees lawsuit Video Game devs are very careful to not give anything of value to volunteers

https://www.salon.com/2000/09/21/ultima_volunteers/

I can't believe a competent lawyer wouldn't say this is a big sue me sign on their back.

Grand Lodge 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Baltic

Actually, VOs are volunteers for the Organized Play Foundation, a non-profit that was created to help bring together gamers.


Auke Teeninga wrote:
Actually, VOs are volunteers for the Organized Play Foundation, a non-profit that was created to help bring together gamers.

Thanks I couldn't remember the name of the company that runs PFS and I didn't have an idea where to look it up at.

You have any evidence that the Fair Labor Standards Act doesn't apply to Non profits?

As I said being contractually obligated to run games sounds abit like 'employee' not 'volunteer' VG devs are careful not to put any obligations on volunteers. It's not that inconceivable to a non lawyer that Paizo could be held liable as they are the prime benefactor of OPF operations

After all lawyers working on contingency can be held liable for their clients.
http://www.computerworld.com/article/3153924/technology-law-regulation/a-po tentially-fatal-blow-against-patent-trolls.html

Grand Lodge 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Baltic

Altaica wrote:
You have any evidence that the Fair Labor Standards Act doesn't apply to Non profits?

I don’t know, I’m not a lawyer nor USA based, but I don’t know how organizations like Boyscouts of America could exist otherwise.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Agent, France—Paris

Was wondering when the raging ball would strike again.

Stick aside, returning the argument could make sense too : Where's the proof The Fair Labor Standards Act apply in the same way for either for-profit and non-profit entities ? Burden of proof would be on the accuser in that case.

Wish vs Reality is a sum up of finding self at odds.

Dark Archive 5/5 Venture-Agent, Ohio—Columbus aka Cirithiel

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@altica, you are misinformed. VOs sign Non-Disclosure Agreements, not contracts.

Second Seekers (Luwazi Elsbo) 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Lieutenant, North Carolina—Charlotte aka eddv

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Oh this again.

The main thing at issue in the Magic case was that they were able to establish that the judges WERE being compensated in the form of those rare magic cards and that that compensation had been unevenly applied and unfairly withheld.

The secondary market for boons has always been discouraged (rather than encouraged as was the case with Magic) and not especially lucrative where it existed, the boons are now all explicitly marked as having no cash value so it's not the same situation in many many ways.

This does approach the line for FLSA but it doesnt cross it. Like forget BSA - the number of unpaid interns in the world shows that this should be at the very bottom of anyone's to care about list.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Agent, France—Paris

It has been structured as such there shouldn't even be a single post about it given there is little to no angle of attack.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Since VOs work for the OPF, if you have questions, maybe ask them there?

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain aka TwilightKnight

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The basis of our volunteer organization is that people are volunteering to promote the game they play, ie it is in our own self interest that we volunteer. If not for the OPF we would not have a structure by which to have world wide community gaming.

Are you a Venture-Officer? Because if not, you don’t have a horse in the race so why stir up trouble where none exists? Are you a lawyer? If so has a Venture-Officer retainer your services? If not, same question. We have literary had thousands of Venture-Officers in the ten plus years of OP and I’m quite sure that if there was a basis for a lawsuit, there would be A LOT of them.

Grand Lodge

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Bob Jonquet wrote:
Are you a Venture-Officer? Because if not, you don’t have a horse in the race so why stir up trouble where none exists?

If you look at the thread creation history of the OP, you will likely find the answer to this question... Bring popcorn.

Silver Crusade 3/5 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Online—PbP aka Redelia

Janice Piette wrote:
@altica, you are misinformed. VOs sign Non-Disclosure Agreements, not contracts.

Actually, what I signed less than two years ago was neither a contract nor a Non-Disclosure Agreement, it was a legal document titled 'Organized Play Foundation Venture Officer Volunteer Agreement.'

Considering this discussion, I'm going to quote a small snippet from that volunteer agreement: "It is the express intention of the parties that Volunteer performs the Services as Volunteer. Nothing in this Agreement will in any way be construed to constitute Volunteer as an agent, employee, or representative of OPF."

2/5 5/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

As one familar with this poster, other than posting corrections/clarifications to keep the paaserby from being misinformed:

You and the topic will be ill served by trying to correct the original poster.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain aka TwilightKnight

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Christine Bussman wrote:
Actually, what I signed less than two years ago was neither a contract nor a Non-Disclosure Agreementt...

Are you suggesting that you are not bound by a non-disclosure agreement?

Paizo Employee 5/5 Designer

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Thread has been locked until tomorrow when people are back at the office.

Paizo Employee 5/5 Organized Play Manager

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Volunteer GMs/organizers are part of the Organized Play Foundation, which is a not-for-profit organization dedicated to spreading the love of gaming throughout communities worldwide. There is a licensing agreement between Paizo and OPF for OPF volunteers to use Paizo organized play programs in their communities and at their events.

Speculative commentary on the nature of individuals or communities is not in line with the goals of Paizo or the Organized Play Foundation. For this reason, we decided to leave this thread locked.

We appreciate your patience and understanding as we took our time to review and reply to this thread.

Happy gaming!

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