Idea: Saving one of your three actions for an AoO


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion


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While listening to a podcast about RPGs, it popped into my head that (if it's not already baked into the system) it would be a great idea if you could save one (or more) of your three actions during your round to use as an AoO.

Losing the AoO for most people was, I thought, a rather large problem for tactical strategy. But also having too many AoOs was ridiculous too (slicing at the whole marathon as they sped by you, as it were). Reserving that third attack (perhaps at a less than -10 modifier) to slow the progress of the person going past you (maybe they are considered flat footed or flanked if they aren't trying to dodge) seems a good trade off. You are betting an action that someone might try to slip by you. If they don't, you've wasted it.

Thoughts?


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Wouldn’t this just be a readied action?


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Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

I was generally happy with the reduced number of AoOs in the playtest. You could still Ready something at the cost of 2 actions, which I felt was appropriate.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I actually prefer that stopping someone moving past you involved actually stopping them. Knocking down, grabbing, bottle necking, utilizing terrain etc is way more interesting than just existing.


AnimatedPaper wrote:
Wouldn’t this just be a readied action?

Yup, that's exactly it.


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Captain Morgan wrote:
AnimatedPaper wrote:
Wouldn’t this just be a readied action?
Yup, that's exactly it.

Readied action costs 2, not 1, so you couldn't AOO with just 1 action left.

Personally I really loved AOOs and would like it if the suggestion in the OP was implemented. Some alternative reaction to stop people from casting in your face or slowly finding a potion in their bag, opening and drinking it with no repercussions would also be nice.

That downside of spellcasting where you can interrupt them with damage really needs to see more play!

Liberty's Edge

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If they made this a General Feat- I could get on board with it, but as a catch all rule, I don't think it makes sense, otherwise tables would see use of this become a way fish for hits with your last action to avoid the Multi-Attack-Penalty after they've already attacked twice.


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AnimatedPaper wrote:
Wouldn’t this just be a readied action?

A Ready action, page 308 in the Playtest Rulebook, requires two actions to set up and a reaction to use. It also suffers a multiple attack penalty, unlike an attack of opportunity. And Ready has the Concentrate trait, so raging barbarians cannot use it.

Ninja's by ChibiNyan, but I proceed on.

Malk_Content wrote:
I actually prefer that stopping someone moving past you involved actually stopping them. Knocking down, grabbing, bottle necking, utilizing terrain etc is way more interesting than just existing.

That sounds like a feat. Let me make it a skill feat, to be open to all classes.

[[Action]] Athletic Reflexes feat 6
General, Skill
Prerequisites Expert in Athletics
You prepare to make an attack reaction that will occur outside your turn. If triggered by a creature within your reach using a manipulate action or a move action, making a ranged attack, or leaving a square during a move action it’s using, then you may use a reaction to attempt a Disarm, Grapple, Shove, or Trip against that creature. This action doesn’t count toward your multiple attack penalty, and your multiple attack penalty doesn’t apply to this action. If the attack hits, then your action could interfere with the creature's action, such as interrupting a move with a trip.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps Subscriber
Mathmuse wrote:
AnimatedPaper wrote:
Wouldn’t this just be a readied action?

A Ready action, page 308 in the Playtest Rulebook, requires two actions to set up and a reaction to use. It also suffers a multiple attack penalty, unlike an attack of opportunity. And Ready has the Concentrate trait, so raging barbarians cannot use it.

Ninja's by ChibiNyan, but I proceed on.

Malk_Content wrote:
I actually prefer that stopping someone moving past you involved actually stopping them. Knocking down, grabbing, bottle necking, utilizing terrain etc is way more interesting than just existing.

That sounds like a feat. Let me make it a skill feat, to be open to all classes.

[[Action]] Athletic Reflexes feat 6
General, Skill
Prerequisites Expert in Athletics
You prepare to make an attack reaction that will occur outside your turn. If triggered by a creature within your reach using a manipulate action or a move action, making a ranged attack, or leaving a square during a move action it’s using, then you may use a reaction to attempt a Disarm, Grapple, Shove, or Trip against that creature. This action doesn’t count toward your multiple attack penalty, and your multiple attack penalty doesn’t apply to this action. If the attack hits, then your action could interfere with the creature's action, such as interrupting a move with a trip.

I like that it encourages some of the combat maneuvers. I have to ask the question though, why limit it to Experts in Athletics. I like it being a general feat, requiring some extra investment, but I honestly don't think it needs to require expert proficiency. I think trained should be sufficient.

I think general feat works well, since probably they would have a problem with a skill feat basically giving a combat reaction, although otherwise I would at least wonder if it could be considered an Athletics Skill feat. (a potential option for skill feat for a pit fighter background for instance)

It would probably need to be written where the feat grants you access to two actions, similar to how Shield Actions sidebar has Raise a Shield and Shield Block.
Actions would be a normal action:
[1-action] Prepare Athletic Response
This action enables you to take the Athletic Response, reaction.
and a reaction:
[reaction] Athletic Response
Trigger: (as you suggested)
Result: (as you explained)

I like that a quick and flexible option.

I still wonder if it wouldn't be reasonable to have an alternate feat to enable a basic strike. Granted sacrificing their third action to have a specific constrained reaction does't seem horribly unbalance. I've actually got a couple options to consider. The first I suddenly realized I liked, because it gave an actual real reason to hold a second weapon rather than just keep striking with their primary weapon several times.

Offhand Opportunist.
General feat
Gives you access to actions to utilize an non-primary weapon to get reaction strikes, somewhat similar to a fighter. It gives you access to the Ready Offhand action and Offhand Response response when used together.

[Action] Ready Offhand
This action enables you to take the Offhand Response reaction once until the start of your next turn. This action appears to simply be a failed strike on an adjacent foe, or a simple threatening action.

[Reaction] Offhand Response
Trigger: [same as AoO]
Result:
Make a strike action. If the weapon is Agile, and the weapon and hand used have not been used in an attack earlier that turn, treat the attack as having 0 MAP. If the Weapon is not agile, and the weapon, nor any hand wielding the weapon has been used in an attack earlier that turn, treat the MAP as 2. Otherwise, if the weapon or weapon hand has been used for prior attack, use any MAP penalties from use of that weapon or weapon hand.

Another more generalized option. It is notably weaker than the fighters' AoO option which is built in, and has no penalty. This chews up an action as well as the reaction, and still has a small MAP applied to the attack, if it comes up.

Prepared Strike
[Action] Prepare Opportunity Strike
This action enables you to take the Opportunity Strike reaction once until the start of your next turn. This action appears to simply be a failed strike on an adjacent foe, or a simple threatening action.

[Reaction] Opportunity Strike
Trigger: [same as AoO]
Result:
As per AoO, save that you apply MAP to the attack as if the weapon used in the attack had been used once before in the round. [irrespective if it had been used none to several times in the round] Thus a regular weapon would have a MAP of -5, an agile weapon as -4, for example.

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