GameTradeMedia liveplay stream notes - Here for your Assurance


Second Edition

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Notes:
What’s written here is confirmed from the live play, unless I got it wrong which could totally happen.
Bold notation indicates changes from the playtest.
Italic indicates uncertainty or detail, personal notes on what is known and what isn’t

General mechanics:
-critical success / critical fails as per PRB, DC+10/-10
-initiative is as per PRB, any skill if the situation allows
-even in P2, 7 is still a number
-Shields still need to be raised as an action and have HP, no dents, and take all damage past Hardness
-Proficiency extrapolated as lv+2/4/6/8. Showcased attack values and AC lines up with expected values.
-MAP (multi-attack penalty) still -5/-10 or -4/-8
-armour speed reduction can be mitigated by having a high Strength value
-ooc Medicine use Treat Wounds: spend 10 mins, take Medicine check, on success heal 2d8 and bolstered for 1hour (immune to Treat Wounds). Higher levels heal more or more often.
-extrapolated after long overthinking: touch AC might be gone. Kyra had a +7 to hit with a ray, meaning +4 (wis) +3 (lv1Trained), and attacked against what sounded like regular AC.

Champion:
Subclasses confirmed as paladin/redeemer/liberator based on alignment, each with their own powers.
Retributive Strike: if enemy attacks Paladin’s allies, Paladin can take aoo and reduce incoming damage

Cleric:
Subclasses confirmed - Kyra being a Warpriest, thus getting better armour proficiency and combat-related benefits. Other versions, specifically one getting better spell casting, have been mentioned but not by name.
Heal is 1d8/1d8+8/area1d8 depending on actions spent. Specifically the second action adds a maximised dice.
Bless lasts 1 minute, +1 to attack rolls. If you concentrate, it gradually expands to a larger range, centred on the cleric. Starts as a 5ft bubble.
We are not meant to find Kyra touching Valeros’s sword awkward (but magic weapons brings damage to 2d8 and gives +1 to hit. Unclear if damage is +1 dice or “fixed to 2d8”)

Fighter:
Fighters do not have subclasses, they just learn whatever fighting technique they want to learn.
Sudden Charge (feat), 2 actions to move twice and take a melee attack
Starts as Expert in weapons
Has high bonuses, but rolls terribly

Rogue:
Subclasses confirmed (racket), with Merisiel being the Thief - add Dex to damage. Other subclasses are Str-based and Cha-based.
Pretty much what you expect

Conditions:
Sick gives penalties to pretty much anything and can be removed by attempting further Fortitude saves via the Retch action. You cannot eat or drink while sick.

Extra Goodies:
Core Rulebook contains no archetype beside multiclass, but the World Guide has 10. These archetypes are not class specific but it’s possible some future ones might be.
CRB has 25 pages on Golarion’s setting, aka the secret chapter.
World Guide has 10 regions, each including several backgrounds and an archetype.

And that’s all, folks!

Ps:
-The feat Assurance lets people take 10 (plus bonus). Can be done in any situation but is limited to one skill. Scaling unspecified and unconfirmed, feel free to speculate.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Quick note: The core book DO have archetypes, but ONLY the multiclass ones.
Thanks for that great write-up BTW. :3

Liberty's Edge

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Ediwir wrote:
Core Rulebook contains no archetype, but the World Guide has 10. These archetypes are not class specific but it’s possible some future ones might be.

The corebook does contain the multiclass Archetypes for all 12 Classes, just no others.

Kyra's Fire Ray was also a +7 to hit for 2d6 damage, which is different enough from the playtest to be worth noting.

EDIT: Semi-ninja'd. Ah, well.


What level were these chars? I know Kyra had a +2 on STR but nothing else.

Dark Archive

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Assurance can also be used to get on Jason's nerves by attributing any and all effect to it. You can be assured of that


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Ediwir wrote:
Core Rulebook contains no archetype, but the World Guide has 10. These archetypes are not class specific but it’s possible some future ones might be.

The corebook does contain the multiclass Archetypes for all 12 Classes, just no others.

Kyra's Fire Ray was also a +7 to hit for 2d6 damage, which is different enough from the playtest to be worth noting.

EDIT: Semi-ninja'd. Ah, well.

Haha, semi sorry. :P

What was the playtest values? I don't quite remember, and I'm lazy to get out of bed. xD

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
ChibiNyan wrote:
What level were these chars? I know Kyra had a +2 on STR but nothing else.

Everyone was level 1


3Doubloons wrote:
ChibiNyan wrote:
What level were these chars? I know Kyra had a +2 on STR but nothing else.
Everyone was level 1

... Valeros has a +10 to attack rolls at some point. What's the math here?


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Shame fighters don't get subclasses, I hoped everybody would get them.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
ChibiNyan wrote:
3Doubloons wrote:
ChibiNyan wrote:
What level were these chars? I know Kyra had a +2 on STR but nothing else.
Everyone was level 1
... Valeros has a +10 to attack rolls at some point. What's the math here?

4 (18 str) + 4 (Expert in weapons) + 1 (level) + 1 (Magic Weapon) works out for the maths.

Liberty's Edge

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Elfteiroh wrote:
Haha, semi sorry. :P

No worries.

Elfteiroh wrote:
What was the playtest values? I don't quite remember, and I'm lazy to get out of bed. xD

It did 1d6 + Wis, so damage didn't change much...but as a Dex-based attack, it'd never in a million years get to +7 to hit, which seems the big takeaway to me.

+7 to hit sounds like she's using Wisdom as an attack stat, which is a big deal if it comes standard for spells.


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3Doubloons wrote:
ChibiNyan wrote:
3Doubloons wrote:
ChibiNyan wrote:
What level were these chars? I know Kyra had a +2 on STR but nothing else.
Everyone was level 1
... Valeros has a +10 to attack rolls at some point. What's the math here?
4 (18 str) + 4 (Expert in weapons) + 1 (level) + 1 (Magic Weapon) works out for the maths.

This feels... Wrong. Wtf, that's insane!! Nothing else can come close to Fighter DPT with this.


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PossibleCabbage wrote:
Shame fighters don't get subclasses, I hoped everybody would get them.

Trust me when I say they're not all they're cracked up to be. You make a single decision at level 1 and it predetermines a number of decisions you make at future levels. Having subclasses is a way to remove false choices (because you chose option 1 at level 1 you're 99.999% likely to choose an exact option at level 3, 5, 7, 9, etc). But it's the most boring way possible.

If we're lucky the subclasses aren't billed as providing you with feats and instead are abilities that are granted in addition to class feats.

Liberty's Edge

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ChibiNyan wrote:
This feels... Wrong. Wtf, that's insane!! Nothing else can come close to Fighter DPT with this.

Well, of all that, only +2 is Fighter specific. That's a hefty boost to damage, but not a completely unreasonable one (heck, Flanking provides that much).

Especially if Wizards and other casters can be attacking at +7 with Touch Attacks.

Liberty's Edge

John Lynch 106 wrote:
If we're lucky the subclasses aren't billed as providing you with feats and instead are abilities that are granted in addition to class feats.

In the playtest, only the Druid subclass really worked this way, though Bard and Barbarian did also have elements of this, (the Rogue one, in contrast, gave you access to a single Feat for each of the three, in addition to the first level stuff). So I doubt it's suddenly universal.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
ChibiNyan wrote:
This feels... Wrong. Wtf, that's insane!! Nothing else can come close to Fighter DPT with this.

Well, of all that, only +2 is Fighter specific. That's a hefty boost to damage, but not a completely unreasonable one (heck, Flanking provides that much).

Especially if Wizards and other casters can be attacking at +7 with Touch Attacks.

I wonder if there's gonna be +7 Touch attacks. That Kyra laser was against full AC, I'm pretty sure. I wonder if touch AC even exists anymore.

Edit: I remember in the playtest forums that people did the math and a +2 to attack was a RIDICULOUSLY HIGH DPT boost with the +10/-10 rule. Like no other martial could ever close that gap.


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ChibiNyan wrote:
3Doubloons wrote:
ChibiNyan wrote:
3Doubloons wrote:
ChibiNyan wrote:
What level were these chars? I know Kyra had a +2 on STR but nothing else.
Everyone was level 1
... Valeros has a +10 to attack rolls at some point. What's the math here?
4 (18 str) + 4 (Expert in weapons) + 1 (level) + 1 (Magic Weapon) works out for the maths.
This feels... Wrong. Wtf, that's insane!! Nothing else can come close to Fighter DPT with this.

Well, the Fighter should be unrivaled in terms of melee proficiency, imho

Liberty's Edge

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ChibiNyan wrote:
I wonder if there's gonna be +7 Touch attacks. That Kyra laser was against full AC, I'm pretty sure.

It was never specified. I'm sure Jason knew what AC it was against.

ChibiNyan wrote:
I wonder if touch AC even exists anymore.

I'd be very surprised if it didn't. Nobody seemed to complain about it, and it's useful.

ChibiNyan wrote:
Edit: I remember in the playtest forums that people did the math and a +2 to attack was a RIDICULOUSLY HIGH DPT boost with the +10/-10 rule. Like no other martial could ever close that gap.

This is true if the other Classes remained utterly unchanged. That seems a singularly unwarranted assumption.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
ChibiNyan wrote:
I wonder if there's gonna be +7 Touch attacks. That Kyra laser was against full AC, I'm pretty sure.

It was never specified. I'm sure Jason knew what AC it was against.

ChibiNyan wrote:
I wonder if touch AC even exists anymore.

I'd be very surprised if it didn't. Nobody seemed to complain about it, and it's useful.

ChibiNyan wrote:
Edit: I remember in the playtest forums that people did the math and a +2 to attack was a RIDICULOUSLY HIGH DPT boost with the +10/-10 rule. Like no other martial could ever close that gap.
This is true if the other Classes remained utterly unchanged. That seems a singularly unwarranted assumption.

He clearly said "That's a d20+7 against AC".

We'll see what other classes can come up with to match that. I know Rage didn't come close and the gap was only +1.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Sick condition also prevented you from eating or drinking anything, including potions. Might be a save to not retch in there of course.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Justin Franklin wrote:
Sick condition also prevented you from eating or drinking anything, including potions. Might be a save to not retch in there of course.

Retching is a special action you can take to drop your Sick Condition level.

ChibiNyan:
Kyra's player read his character sheet at 1h23m~15s and he says "Target's AC". Still doesn't mean Jason didn't used the "right" AC in his head, but it would be weird.


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If Kyra is Trained in Spellcasting, her +7 includes a +4 stat.
She does NOT have 18 dex, but she very well might have 18 wis.

If the key stat controls touch attacks, there's no reason to have a lower Touch AC.

Touch attacks are spell attacks vs AC.

I can Assure you of that.


3Doubloons wrote:
Assurance can also be used to get on Jason's nerves by attributing any and all effect to it. You can be assured of that

Yeah, the biggest take away is "That's not what Assurance is!"


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Ediwir wrote:


I can Assure you of that.

Do you possess the Assurance feat to be able to do this?

Liberty's Edge

Ediwir wrote:

If Kyra is Trained in Spellcasting, her +7 includes a +4 stat.

She does NOT have 18 dex, but she very well might have 18 wis.

Yep. That's where I was going with that.

Ediwir wrote:

If the key stat controls touch attacks, there's no reason to have a lower Touch AC.

Touch attacks are spell attacks vs AC.

I'm not sure this inherently follows. It's plausible, but not for sure, IMO. This is one of those areas where people sometimes read too much into imprecise language.


Here's the video, in case anyone wants to check it themselves: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/395207739?filter=all&sort=time

Liberty's Edge

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Cyouni wrote:
Here's the video, in case anyone wants to check it themselves: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/395207739?filter=all&sort=time

Linkified.


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Sudden charge has the flourish trait.

And for shields I don't think they have hardness with which they reduce damage they take. What Jason said was:

"Your shield can take 20 points of damage before its broken. If that damage was in excess to 8 you would take some of that damage."

So I think the damage dealt to the shield isn't reduced by hardness, he never even mentioned the term hardness. Only that there is a value (8) and if the damage is higher than that, the PC takes the excess damage.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Ediwir wrote:

If Kyra is Trained in Spellcasting, her +7 includes a +4 stat.

She does NOT have 18 dex, but she very well might have 18 wis.

Yep. That's where I was going with that.

Ediwir wrote:

If the key stat controls touch attacks, there's no reason to have a lower Touch AC.

Touch attacks are spell attacks vs AC.

I'm not sure this inherently follows. It's plausible, but not for sure, IMO. This is one of those areas where people sometimes read too much into imprecise language.

It’s all extrapolated information rather than direct confirmation, of course there is uncertainty into it. It’s a sound reasoning that leads into likely outcomes, while leaving final word to the book release. But if I went for an uncertain writing in the last sentence, the following Assurance joke wouldn’t have worked.

I think you read too much into imprecise language ;)


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Rekijan wrote:

Sudden charge has the flourish trait.

And for shields I don't think they have hardness with which they reduce damage they take. What Jason said was:

"Your shield can take 20 points of damage before its broken. If that damage was in excess to 8 you would take some of that damage."

So I think the damage dealt to the shield isn't reduced by hardness, he never even mentioned the term hardness. Only that there is a value (8) and if the damage is higher than that, the PC takes the excess damage.

I do like this over the dent system. Also 8 hardness is higher than the Playtest's 3 or 5 for standard wood and steel shields respectively. So it looks like shields will be both more useful, and more durable. I'm hoping they'll also apply potency runes to shields instead of needing specific magic shields. With potency increasing hardness and hit-points instead of AC. I do hope there is a section on the character sheet for shield HP (and potentially other gear if sunder rules are brought over.


Rekijan wrote:

Sudden charge has the flourish trait.

And for shields I don't think they have hardness with which they reduce damage they take. What Jason said was:

"Your shield can take 20 points of damage before its broken. If that damage was in excess to 8 you would take some of that damage."

So I think the damage dealt to the shield isn't reduced by hardness, he never even mentioned the term hardness. Only that there is a value (8) and if the damage is higher than that, the PC takes the excess damage.

Erg. I like the shield having hardness and taking some damage. The way it seems now, a shield can last for a couple combats and then need to be discarded.

I think a better way would be a shield has hardness and hp, and the excess gets applied to the player. and the shield doesn't increase AC at all - it is basically DR.

oh well, too late now! lol.


I'm listening to the stream on youtube right now -

@ 9:10 JB calls out touch AC as existing. Flat-footed is a -2 condition to AC.

Also they call out some of the iconics' stats early on:

Valeros - Human, farmhand
S:18

Kyra - Human, farmhand
S:14 D:12 W:18 Ch:14

Merisel - Elf, criminal
D: 18

Fumbus - Goblin, criminal.
I:18. Yeaaah... lol
D:16


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Things that make me very happy to hear:

- Shields with HP instead of "dents"
- Strength reducing armor speed penalty
- Warpriest! Especially since Retributive strike is perilously close to making Paladin a dead class
- Flat bonus to 2 action Heal
- Assurance is PF1e take 10
- Bless isn't concentrate only


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Zi Mishkal wrote:
Rekijan wrote:

Sudden charge has the flourish trait.

And for shields I don't think they have hardness with which they reduce damage they take. What Jason said was:

"Your shield can take 20 points of damage before its broken. If that damage was in excess to 8 you would take some of that damage."

So I think the damage dealt to the shield isn't reduced by hardness, he never even mentioned the term hardness. Only that there is a value (8) and if the damage is higher than that, the PC takes the excess damage.

Erg. I like the shield having hardness and taking some damage. The way it seems now, a shield can last for a couple combats and then need to be discarded.

I think a better way would be a shield has hardness and hp, and the excess gets applied to the player. and the shield doesn't increase AC at all - it is basically DR.

oh well, too late now! lol.

There was no mention of tracking the damage so I think a shield would only break if the attack does more than 20 points of damage in a single hit.


Justin Franklin wrote:
Zi Mishkal wrote:


Erg. I like the shield having hardness and taking some damage. The way it seems now, a shield can last for a couple combats and then need to be discarded.

I think a better way would be a shield has hardness and hp, and the excess gets applied to the player. and the shield doesn't increase AC at all - it is basically DR.

oh well, too late now! lol.

There was no mention of tracking the damage so I think a shield would only break if the attack does more than 20 points of damage in a single hit.

oooh, I LIKE that. I take back my reservation!


Ediwir wrote:

-even in P2, 7 is still a number

I'm not quite as fluent: what does that sentence mean? Thanks!


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Ronnam wrote:
Ediwir wrote:

-even in P2, 7 is still a number

I'm not quite as fluent: what does that sentence mean? Thanks!

Quote from Jason in the stream when someone rolled a seven "That is a number." basically a joke if you watch.


oh gotcha! thanks. I thought I was missing out on some inside jargon.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Sounds a lot like the first dying system they went with. I wasn't really a big fan of any of the systems they came out with honestly. And I really hope that if they are using the creature's stats as the save that it's easier to calculate on the fly, or it's just simply listed somewhere.

Liberty's Edge

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Zi Mishkal, you're looking at the wrong video. I think you're looking at the first one for the playtest rather than the recent one. All your timestamps are completely off, and that's the only conclusion I can come to.

In fact, I have proof: Fumbus is not in the video under discussion here.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Ok thank god. I did not want them to revert back to the first system.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Zi Mishkal, you're looking at the wrong video. I think you're looking at the first one for the playtest rather than the recent one. All your timestamps are completely off, and that's the only conclusion I can come to.

GAH! You're right! The link sent me to the wrong video. Well, that's egg on my face. lol..

Amusingly, the video was almost exactly one year ago today. lol Anyways, my bad. Weird. Somehow I missed this video the first time around - and I'd thought I'd watched all of them.

If an admin would like to delete all my posts to avoid confusion, I'd be most appreciative.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ediwir wrote:

If Kyra is Trained in Spellcasting, her +7 includes a +4 stat.

She does NOT have 18 dex, but she very well might have 18 wis.

If the key stat controls touch attacks, there's no reason to have a lower Touch AC.

Touch attacks are spell attacks vs AC.

I can Assure you of that.

I am wondering if spells aren't just using the relevant skill for the spell type. So Religion for Clerics, Arcana for Wizards, etc. That would remove the need for TAC since a Wizard would be comparable to the fighter to hit AC with a spell.

Liberty's Edge

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Justin Franklin wrote:
I am wondering if spells aren't just using the relevant skill for the spell type. So Religion for Clerics, Arcana for Wizards, etc. That would remove the need for TAC since a Wizard would be comparable to the fighter to hit AC with a spell.

That's unlikely, and unnecessary. Spellcasters gain Proficiency in their Spell List and even have a Spell Roll based on their spellcasting stat already calculated. It sounds like they just use that.

Making it Skills gives Sorcerers and Bards a huge disadvantage to no purpose, and requires spellcasters to all max out that Skill at all times, which is odd.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Justin Franklin wrote:
I am wondering if spells aren't just using the relevant skill for the spell type. So Religion for Clerics, Arcana for Wizards, etc. That would remove the need for TAC since a Wizard would be comparable to the fighter to hit AC with a spell.
That's unlikely, and unnecessary. Spellcasters gain Proficiency in their Spell List and even have a Spell Roll based on their spellcasting stat already calculated. It sounds like they just use that.

What is the difference? If I am a wizard that is trained in Arcana with an 18 Intelligence I have an Arcana of +7 (+4 for Int, +2 for trained, and +1 for level). My spell roll is +7 (+4 for Int, +2 for trained and +1 for level). Now I have to train 2 things for the same effect.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Responding to the second point then at 7th level casters get Expert in their appropriate skill as an ability.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Now I will counter myself with it would make it harder to have the Divine Charisma based caster. And so that would be a good reason to have two separate stats.


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I feel like keeping spellcasting proficiency separate from skill proficiency (in arcana, etc.) is that it gives you space to define a character who is good at practicum but woeful at theory (or vice versa, in theory.)

Silver Crusade

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Wizard vs Sorcerer basically :3

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