SomethingSomethingSomething |
Does Armor Training allow you to treat armor as one category lighter (like mithril), or at least sufficiently to (perhaps not RAW, but reasonably) allow a Fighter/Rogue to employ their abilities which rely upon wearing light armor while wearing medium armor with armor training?
Edit... Alternatively, is there any non-material way to get medium armor to apply as light armor for the purposes of the rogue class abilities thusly limited?
Long story short, I have a character that's trying to find a way to pursue a rogue/scout-style Dex-build, but also wear hide armor. Trying to find a way to make that work, without having to just homebrew something.
SomethingSomethingSomething |
Buy Mithral Breastplate.
That's the no-can-do.
The armor in question is already made (its medium), what I need is a way that the character can wear it effectively while still maintaining a Dex-build whose class abilities require light armor.I reckon I'm gonna wind up creating an alternative class feature, racial trait or something of the sort to cover this hole.
VoodistMonk |
No... Mithral Breastplate counts as light armor, via being made out of Mithral.
The Armor Master trait negates the last remaining ACP for not being proficient with medium armor.
Done deal.
You can access this as a Rogue with either a Regional Trait or a Combat Trait... both called Armor Master.
This is literally "my rogue is stuck on the front line" 101...
SomethingSomethingSomething |
Mithral Breastplate counts as light armor, via being made out of Mithral.
I repeat:
The armor in question is already made (its medium HIDE), what I need is a way that the character can wear it effectively while still maintaining a Dex-build whose class abilities require light armor.I'm well aware of how mithral works, the issue is that it doesn't fit here conceptually.
The Armor Master trait negates the last remaining ACP for not being proficient with medium armor.
The issue isn't the ACP, in theory, its that the classes in question require light armor (or equivalent thereof).
SomethingSomethingSomething |
Pay money... transmute the pre-made armor into Mithral armor...
Not an option.
If you gave the Rogue heavy armor, much laughs, all around.
Gave a tiny-sized character hide armor without realizing he was going to be going leaning towards Dex-build.
Alternative armor is not an option. The armor is set.Need a mechanism to treat it as light, if extant (like mithral, but not mithral), but as previously stated, don't know that something like that exists in published material.
SomethingSomethingSomething |
Slayer is exactly a rogue/ranger blend. It might work very nicely for what you are after.
Its interesting, but the sneak attack is pushed back a bit too far for appeal, and the penultimate ability is Int-based (which the character in question will be looking at ~12 max by level 15+). Will add it to considerations though.
SomethingSomethingSomething |
Rule Zero, buddy. GM Fiat to make it work. Or don't, it's your choice...
Not the GM, can't make that choice.
What I CAN do is look for something I can work with, and if I can't find anything, attempt to cook something up and present it for approval.What I really need to do is find a non-material-based way to let medium armor count as light armor, specifically for the purposes of rogue/scout/Dex-build class abilities (evasion, for example).
In some cases, another class would be more in order, but this character is very reliant on damage-booster abilities of those classes to be relevant in combat; while mithral armor might be in order in other cases, where adjustment to the armor would be more viable.
I can theoretically alter the armor from medium hide into light studded-leather, but I'd hoped to find another avenue.
SomethingSomethingSomething |
Take off some of the pieces to reduce it to a hide shirt, which is light?
Yeah, in theory I can alter it down; and that's probably the best best, given the max Dex benefit of studded leather and the absence of difference in AC bonus.
Was hoping there might be a non-mithral route to achieve the mithral-equivalent ability of treating a given type of armor as one category lighter, but it doesn't look like that exists.zza ni |
is it have to be hide because it's already made or because you can only get hide armor?
if the later then 'darkleaf cloth' (material) is the mithril equivalent to leather\hide made armors ;half weight, less acp, more dex ,count as lighter armor and decrease arcane spell failure.
usful for light armor such as leather\studded\Lamellar (leather) and for medium armor such as hide armor.it's also cheaper then mithril armor of the same category.
Nyerkh |
Darkleaf does not, in fact, change the category. Darkleaf hide is still medium.
Neither does the nimble armor mod.
Both still interesting, but not enough
Is that specific Hide armor so important ? Why ?
If it's a literal plot device, is it too late to say "I made a mistake, it's (studded) Leather, not Hide" ?
Or to allow it to be reworked, by a skilled artisan, into something lighter ? Make a sidequest out of it if needed ?
Can't that uniquely important, specific Hide armor have an equally unique magical property that allows it to be treated as light? It's not like it's any better than a chain shirt...
Hide is ... not exactly the greatest to begin with.
And I don't know of any way to treat it as light.
Admittedly, it's bad enough that there's never been a point in me trying. It's good enough for a low level druid, and that's about it.
Worse case, if that Hide is indeed that crazy vital to the campaign and inalterable, get rid of evasion.
Armor Dex limit applies only to AC calculation, and some archetypes can replace evasion. That and a feat tax for proficiency will help a bit.
Although that is not the easiest way to handle it.
Not sure why fighter/rogue is ok but slayer/rogue isn't, by the way. Accomplished Sneak Attacker takes a lot of the pain away, if SA progression is your main worry.
Toolbag |
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Look. This is the way D&D has been for quite some time. A rogue in melee is at a disadvantage because they can't wear any armor worth having. The fact of the matter is that you will have to ditch the HIDE armor you wasted time making to go with a Mithral Breastplate that will allow you to qualify for EVASION under your rogue abilities. This is because Mithral allows you to treat the armor as light instead of medium. You can not make hide armor out of Mithral because it isn't something you usually make out of metal and there is no difference between the proficiency of any medium armor over any other medium armor. The only possible reason you could need armor made out of a natural material is if you had some Druid ability involved which you did not indicate.
Bottom line: get rid of the HIDE armor and buy Mithral
Toolbag |
Ok. I have to admit that the bracers of armor is a good idea that none of the rest of us came up with. Thank you zza ni. Although, I do also like the whittling down of the hide to become a hide shirt provided that the AC is adjusted according to the reduction of material.
And before someone goes down that path: No. The AC from bracers of armor do not stack with any kind of regular armor.
Claxon |
I would like to hear the answer to why this particular set of hide is important?
The OP seems exceptionally resistant to not using this hide armor, but isn't providing a reason why. The most effective and easiest solution to the problem is mithral medium armor, the best of which is breastplate. You need something to reduce the armor check penalty, which is also pretty easy to get.
haremlord |
Java Man wrote:Slayer is exactly a rogue/ranger blend. It might work very nicely for what you are after.Its interesting, but the sneak attack is pushed back a bit too far for appeal, and the penultimate ability is Int-based (which the character in question will be looking at ~12 max by level 15+). Will add it to considerations though.
Just wanted to say that if you dip vivisectionist then take slayer, by RAW your sneak attack is the same as a rogue.
As you were :-D
VoodistMonk |
Also the fact that armor types aren't balanced in any meaningful or rational way.
Nothing really is. There is no rhyme or reason to anything, no consistency to be found. It's a fantasy game, after all.
The longsword is the quintessential weapon of all of reality, ever, but it is a throwaway weapon in this game. The rapier gets all the love, for whatever reason... yet was only used by a small portion of the world, for an even smaller portion of history.
The Butcher's Axe is crafted specifically by Orc smiths but isn't a racial weapon for Orcs to use.
Fighter's don't have the skills to notice, identify, or close the distance to their targets. Lol.
The only thing that makes any sense is that Magic is terrifying and if you don't use it, you die by it.