Pathfinder Second Edition Subscription Questions


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion

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Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber
Rysky wrote:
It’s not “extremely tenuous” though. It’s not incompatible to 1st Edition, you just need to do some updating, just you like you had to do if you wanted to bring any DND stuff into Pathfinder.

I'm with you on the first sentence, but the second is streching the truth a bit.

Bringing D&D3 or 3.5 stuff into Pathfinder (1) was 'a bit of updating'.
Bringing Pathfinder (1) to Pathfinder second edition is most likely not that straightforeward.
As far as I know, there is not going to be a conversion guide from first to second edition (which is available for D&D to Pathfinder (1))

I, for my part, am feeling okay with Paizo's decission to keep the subscriptions with the switch of editions, but I would not have minded to need to be active in renewing subscriptions on my end.

That said, I can see Frozen Yakman's point, for some it might feel like now they aren't getting what they initially signed up for.


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Franz Lunzer wrote:
That said, I can see Frozen Yakman's point, for some it might feel like now they aren't getting what they initially signed up for.

I totally get THAT part of the point. It’s just that Paizo make it very easy to cancel. They email you with a few days notice to say what you’re getting, what the shipping options are and how much the whole thing is going to cost. I’m not sure that any significant harm is being done (certainly not to anyone posting about it now).

Paizo subscriptions aren’t really like other subscriptions - there’s no obligation and an established process of vetting what you’re going to get each month with sufficient time to cancel if it’s not what you want. Given that, I’m fine with them choosing the option which impacts on the fewest number of subscribers. I’m betting more than half of subscribers will keep their sub for PF2’s launch. Those who don’t want to can opt-out with a simple messageboard post or email. Those who want to and forget will get a reminder email a few days before any harm is done. If they went the other way (suddenly cancelling everyone’s subs) I think far more people would be upset than will be the case given the path they’ve chosen.

Paizo didn’t cancel subs when modules went from 32 to 64 pages, when the novels changed formats (and price) or when player companions went from six issues a year to twelve - all of those were significant changes to the relevant subscription, yet were managed via email notifications, blogs and messageboard posts. There were grumbles (and there will be this time too, I’m sure) but it seems like a storm in a teacup to me. It also reminds me of the furore when the beginner box was included in the subscription. There was a fair bit of angst prior to the product hitting (all from people who’d found out ahead of time but were worried that others may not expect it). Once it came and went though, there were very few people complaining that they’d been “tricked” or caught out.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Franz Lunzer wrote:
That said, I can see Frozen Yakman's point, for some it might feel like now they aren't getting what they initially signed up for.

They've announced it months ago.

It's all over the website and their other social media.

They send cards advertising it with each subscription shipment.

The back of every book tells what's coming next, the fact that the last one for each 1st edition line doesn't should tell the subscriber something.

You have to come to the website to set up a subscription. If you don't come to monitor your subscription that's on you.

I work at a gym, we will not cancel your membership just because you don't use it or don't come for a week. You have to come in and tell us to cancel it. Paizo has even less of that interaction with their customers so it doesn't make any sense for them to decide "we'll we have no idea if our customers would like this product so we're going to cancel EVERYONE'S subscription to be safe even though they didn't ask us to".


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Have we received any further news on whether the second edition subscriptions will come with the PDFs? The lack of communication on this is preventing me from deciding whether I should subscribe or not.


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

They still have until July to spell things out for us.

Given that some subscriptions can continue through the edition change, however, I would assume that PDFs will remain a part of the subscriptions. They would be getting a lot of cancelations if they don't retain them.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Would like to know if we'll be able to add the limited editions as part of the subscription as still get the PDF, in the same way that we could for the reprint of Curse of the Crimson Throne.


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
"The Lucky Halfling" wrote:
Have we received any further news on whether the second edition subscriptions will come with the PDFs? The lack of communication on this is preventing me from deciding whether I should subscribe or not.

I find it very strange this wasn't an easy yes. I can only assume they want to contain all subscription info in one blog and the stars haven't yet aligned.

If they were to abandon free PDFs for subscribers I would be stunned.


Steve Geddes wrote:
"The Lucky Halfling" wrote:
Have we received any further news on whether the second edition subscriptions will come with the PDFs? The lack of communication on this is preventing me from deciding whether I should subscribe or not.

I find it very strange this wasn't an easy yes. I can only assume they want to contain all subscription info in one blog and the stars haven't yet aligned.

If they were to abandon free PDFs for subscribers I would be stunned.

From a purely income point of view, it would come down to:

Would the increased sales of PDFs for the products make up for the loss of book subscriptions (which would definitely happen, as you often see people citing the free PDFs as the only reason they subscribe instead of buying elsewhere or only some books - mostly it justifies the shipping for people, especially abroad)?


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GentleGiant wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:
"The Lucky Halfling" wrote:
Have we received any further news on whether the second edition subscriptions will come with the PDFs? The lack of communication on this is preventing me from deciding whether I should subscribe or not.

I find it very strange this wasn't an easy yes. I can only assume they want to contain all subscription info in one blog and the stars haven't yet aligned.

If they were to abandon free PDFs for subscribers I would be stunned.

From a purely income point of view, it would come down to:

Would the increased sales of PDFs for the products make up for the loss of book subscriptions (which would definitely happen, as you often see people citing the free PDFs as the only reason they subscribe instead of buying elsewhere or only some books - mostly it justifies the shipping for people, especially abroad)?

Combined with a risk of angering people who might have been alright with subscribing without the pdf in the abstract, but are now used to getting it with the subscription, so this will feel like something being taken away.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Steve Geddes wrote:
it seems like a storm in a teacup to me.

I scrolled back a bit and noticed that most of the people decrying bait and switch aren't subscribers.

I'm not a subscriber, but seeing how simple it is, I might be for certain lines (if PDFs are included).


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Steve Geddes wrote:
"The Lucky Halfling" wrote:
Have we received any further news on whether the second edition subscriptions will come with the PDFs? The lack of communication on this is preventing me from deciding whether I should subscribe or not.

I find it very strange this wasn't an easy yes. I can only assume they want to contain all subscription info in one blog and the stars haven't yet aligned.

If they were to abandon free PDFs for subscribers I would be stunned.

The scuttlebutt is that there could be another benefit for subscribers in addition to PDFs that they are sorting out still, hence the lack of definitive communication.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I'm a subscriber for the early access. Instead of getting the book at a set date, I get it at an unknown point before then. It's a nice surprise! Otherwise I'd just get the PDFs.


Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
QuidEst wrote:
I'm a subscriber for the early access. Instead of getting the book at a set date, I get it at an unknown point before then. It's a nice surprise! Otherwise I'd just get the PDFs.

Its always been late-access for me. Amazon shipping beats paizo shipping by up to a week, when I sometimes forgot something was included in a subscription line and pre-ordered it. I guess it would be early access for the PDF, but I only tend to use the PDF after reading the print book.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps Subscriber

As someone who mostly plays online, I'll happily subscribe if the PDF perk returns; otherwise, I'm just going to buy the PDFs and skip the physical books instead. Probably by my own cadence as a consequence, since I just don't catch release news most of the time.


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Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Has there been any news on whether the subscriptions will still include a PDF?

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

They have always included PDF,s why would they stop now? It's one of the largest selling points IMHO.


Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber
Marc Waschle wrote:
They have always included PDF,s why would they stop now? It's one of the largest selling points IMHO.

It's a little odd to me that there still hasn't been an announcement yet that PDFs will continue to be a subscriber perk. As a big selling point of the subscriptions, why hold off on confirming it?

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

They are probably going to reveal much of the details at PaizoCon, which is held at the end of May. From then on, we are likely going to be bombarded with Pathfinder second edition informations.


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

My assumption is that they just want to make one announcement. They dont want news to trickle out but to all be in one, easily referenced place.

It will be astonishing if PDFs arent included. I suspect theyre more likely to be tweaking the discounts and eligibility for paizo advantage than deciding whether pdfs are going to still be a perk.


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follwoing with interest


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Pathfinder Card Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Just got done with the paizo 2019 and beyond panel at PaizoCon. When the question was asked about subscriptions, they were not able to give a ton of details because some things apparently are still not finalized at this point but Lisa Stevens did say that if a subscription did include a pdf with it before then it would continue to do so. But it sounds like they are still figuring discounts and the like for all the new and consolidated subscriptions, or at least they are not able to say, as of yet, anything more.


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Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Thanks Postal

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber

Do we have a definitive answer on being able to pick up subscriptions and/or pre-orders at Gen Con? Volunteering as much as I do at Gen Con leaves me no time to wait hours in line to buy them.

I’m just trying to make sure I have the stuff in hand on Day 1. :)


Is their any value in pre-ordering at this point? I haven't seen anything about a cut off date for pre-orders. Thanks.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

If you’re buying through Paizo, there’s very little reason to preorder. A subscription will get you the PDF as well (which a preorder won’t).

Even if you just want the CRB but not the bestiary, for some reason, I’d add a subscription and ask Customer Service to ensure you only get the one you want.

Liberty's Edge

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GameMaster Since 1st Ed wrote:


I agree that this looks like an attempt to stick people with products they don't want - they have a PF 2E Adventure Path that appears to be shipping at the same time the last issue of the final 1E Adventure Path releases so if you want the last one with the Pathfinder Advantage benefit, you have to take both of them. Total cash grab.

To be fair, it's not about that. It's about using this release of PF2's Adventure Paths to re-calibrate their release schedule so that a new AP begins in January of a calendar year, not February.

Paizo's business model began as a subscription based accessory replacing a magazine subscription. The release of PF AP #1 was tied to a release date in August (Gencon). They have been fighting against the logic of that release schedule for 12 years.

They are now taking the opportunity to fix it and have their 2 APs coincide with the calendar year. In order to do that, they need to release essentially 3 volumes of PF AP all near each other in late July. That's it, that's all. Tyrant's Grasp will end off that AP in July (as expected) and the first new volume of Age of Ashes will also drop in July, too (August 1 essentially) with Vol 2 of Age of Ashes a week later at Gencon.

I do wonder very much at your anger though - and I think you are a little off at sensing what the existing customer base wants. I am a PF1 enthusiast (indeed, a PF1 superfan would be a fair label) and I have no immediate plans to play or run PF2. At all.

That said, the idea that I would unsubscribe from Pathfinder Adventure Path is total heresy to me. Even if I never run a PF2 AP under PF2 -- I certainly will do so under PF1 rules. And I will continue to buy them if only for that purpose. And if I come to play or run PF2 over time, then I will have them for that purpose, too. Either way, I'm covered. Most Pathfinder AP subscribers are quite invested in the Campaign setting and the product line. Many of us have been here since we converted over our Dragon/Dungeon subscriptions with Burnt Offerings (PF AP #1.)

Your anger and your purchasing plans are your own. You are wholly entitled to them. But I think you do need to consider a bigger picture. In particular, you need to be able to sense and slot whatever your resentment is in comparison to others and understand how your views may not be shared by most other Paizo customers -- and why.

Bottom Line: You are off base here.


Steve Geddes wrote:

If you’re buying through Paizo, there’s very little reason to preorder. A subscription will get you the PDF as well (which a preorder won’t).

Even if you just want the CRB but not the bestiary, for some reason, I’d add a subscription and ask Customer Service to ensure you only get the one you want.

Thanks for the answer. If I subscribe now when am I likely to get the books?


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Aaron Scott 139 wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:

If you’re buying through Paizo, there’s very little reason to preorder. A subscription will get you the PDF as well (which a preorder won’t).

Even if you just want the CRB but not the bestiary, for some reason, I’d add a subscription and ask Customer Service to ensure you only get the one you want.

Thanks for the answer. If I subscribe now when am I likely to get the books?

They aim for everyone to get them as close as possible to streetdate (August 1st for the CRB and Bestiary).

That means they should ship out during the last couple of weeks of July. When a subscriber’s specific order is packed and the shipping slip printed, they are then granted access to the PDF (so subscribers usually get a few days viewing the PDF before the book is released).

However, there isn’t a guarantee of hitting that date for everyone. Every month, there are some subscribers who get their books after streetdate, so that is a risk in the subscription method. You’ll always get a copy and you get the PDF for free,, but you won’t always get it early.

From past experience, GenCon (August) is the worst month in terms of hitting the target date. Also big launches often stretch Paizo’s staff to the limit. I’d always recommend a subscription, if you want Paizo products, but I brace myself for a disappointing holdup every August as it is historically the most problematic.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

So...If I pre-order, will I be able to pick up my books at GenCon??????


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

They usually offer that kind of service. I'd keep an eye on the customer service forum for a thread detailing the gencon pickup procedure.

I suspect the PF2 stuff will be there. Sometimes not everything in their stire can be collected.


Steel_Wind wrote:

{. . .}

That said, the idea that I would unsubscribe from Pathfinder Adventure Path is total heresy to me. Even if I never run a PF2 AP under PF2 -- I certainly will do so under PF1 rules. And I will continue to buy them if only for that purpose. {. . .}

If you do this, could you let us know how it went?

Liberty's Edge

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UnArcaneElection wrote:
Steel_Wind wrote:

{. . .}

That said, the idea that I would unsubscribe from Pathfinder Adventure Path is total heresy to me. Even if I never run a PF2 AP under PF2 -- I certainly will do so under PF1 rules. And I will continue to buy them if only for that purpose. {. . .}

If you do this, could you let us know how it went?

It is our current plan to podcast long and loud about running the new APs under both PF2 as well as advice on converting them to PF1. And we'll provide the converted stat blocks, too, on a timely basis.

So, in a word, YES.


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Is there any word on the Pathfinder Accessories subscription? As I recall that was going to be available “in coming weeks” but I haven’t really seen anything further. Is it somewhere obscure maybe that I can’t find?


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

On the Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscription product page and the Pathfinder Campaign Setting Subscription product page, the option to start the subscription with Hellknight Hill and the Lost Omens World Guide, respectively, are now available. However, when I go to start the subscriptions with these products, no matter what I do, when I get to the 'place your order' page after putting them in my cart, having selected the 2E products as the starting product at every step, it's changed to starting the subscriptions from Midwives to Death (Tyrant's Grasp 6/6) and Druma, Profit and Prophecy, respectively. Is this going to get fixed/is there anywhere else I should post about this problem to get it looked at?
Thanks


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

The tech team is aware of this issue and are working on it. You can probably get C.S. to wrangle it for you, but I daresay the wait won’t be too long- it’s becoming higher and higher priority for them, I’m sure!


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Steve Geddes wrote:
The tech team is aware of this issue and are working on it. You can probably get C.S. to wrangle it for you, but I daresay the wait won’t be too long- it’s becoming higher and higher priority for them, I’m sure!

Excellent, thankyou! Apologies, I should've thought to look in 'customer service', it seems obvious now that just because I've been lurking exclusively around the 'second edition' forum doesn't mean that's where everything is... oops!

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32

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I wonder why they didn't just create NEW separate subscriptions for Pf2, would avoid the mess that's happening now.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

And require every subscriber to come to the site and reupp? Not a good option.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Also the "mess" so far has been rather minuscule, all things considered.

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32

TriOmegaZero wrote:
And require every subscriber to come to the site and reupp? Not a good option.

You may be right. I can see how that would be annoying for some people.

But, Starfinder was a new game and had new subscriptions at launch. PF2 is also a new game and should also have new subscriptions.

Rysky wrote:
.Also the "mess" so far has been rather minuscule, all things considered.

Yea, maybe 'mess' was too strong a word. But people who aren't interested in both PF1 and PF2 are having problems either starting or stopping subscriptions with the desired releases.


Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber

Speaking of subscriptions, has there been any official word on whether the PDFs will come with the hardcovers for subscriptions? Specifically, for the Roleplaying Game and the Modules subscriptions.

-- david

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Grumpus wrote:
But, Starfinder was a new game and had new subscriptions at launch. PF2 is also a new game and should also have new subscriptions.

One's a completely different game and setting, the other is an updated edition of a game and setting. Two completely different things.

Quote:
Yea, maybe 'mess' was too strong a word. But people who aren't interested in both PF1 and PF2 are having problems either starting or stopping subscriptions with the desired releases.

I can see wanting to start a subscription this early causing issues, but I haven't heard anything about people having issues with stopping them.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Papa-DRB wrote:

Speaking of subscriptions, has there been any official word on whether the PDFs will come with the hardcovers for subscriptions? Specifically, for the Roleplaying Game and the Modules subscriptions.

-- david

For the normal versions yes, I'm unsure in regards to the special editions.

Web Product Manager

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Rysky wrote:
For the normal versions yes, I'm unsure in regards to the special editions.

Just clarifying here that the Deluxe Hardcovers are not part of any subscription.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Chris Lambertz wrote:
Rysky wrote:
For the normal versions yes, I'm unsure in regards to the special editions.
Just clarifying here that the Deluxe Hardcovers are not part of any subscription.

Thankies Chris! There we have it.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Tee hee, my new job in Berlin and a shiny salary in sweet sweet Euro couldn't happen at a better moment. *resubs RPG and setting lines*


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It's rather disconcerting when a bag full of teeth goes "tee hee"...

;p

Carry on!

--C.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Chris Lambertz wrote:
Rysky wrote:
For the normal versions yes, I'm unsure in regards to the special editions.
Just clarifying here that the Deluxe Hardcovers are not part of any subscription.

The deluxe editions aren't part of any subscription, but would it be possible to upgrade the subscription items to their deluxe versions?


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Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber
Chris Lambertz wrote:
Rysky wrote:
For the normal versions yes, I'm unsure in regards to the special editions.
Just clarifying here that the Deluxe Hardcovers are not part of any subscription.

Back in my IT days (pre-retirement) Rysky would be considered a knowledgeable user, however not official (no offense meant).

Chris, are you say that he is correct and that officially, PDFs come with the hard covers for subscriptions?

-- david


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

There has been official word in that Lisa Stevens confirmed during some interview somewhere (I don't have a link) that "if a subscription currently offers a free PDF it will continue to do so" however, there's been no formal announcement as to exactly what the benefits of subscribing will be from August onwards.

There also isn't (yet) a Pathfinder Accessories subscription, nor any word on what combination of subscriptions will yield Paizo advantage in the post-PF1 world.

My knowledgeble-yet-not-official guess is that they're waiting to get the answers to everything subscription related before making that one, formal announcement (likely via blog plus messageboard post).

Lisa Stevens interview comment is probably official enough, with regard to the free PDFs.

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