Alchemist Build from lvl 1 to 11


Advice


Hi,just wantted to post an alchemist build that I've come up , and wanted to know you thoughs , advice and changes you may suggest. 3pp material is available.
The build has some decisions based on flavor ,as for the race , the tumor parasyte familiar and the stats; but everything is still up to change

Race :Changeling witchborn(+2int,cha -2 Cons)- Gnome fcv
Stats: 12,18,12,20,7,9 (a variation of the point buy sistem)
Alchemist Grenadier

Traits(we get 3) Firebug,Clever Wordplay(diplomacy), Bruising Intellect.
1 Point blank shot
2 Tanglefoot Bomb / Precise Bomb
3 Extra Discovery Darkness Bomb
4 Infusion
5 Extra Discovery Tumor Familiar(Parasyte familiar+4 initiative Jerboa)
6 Directed Bomb/Void Bomb*
7 Rapid Shot
8 Fast Bombs
9 Extra Discovery Blinding Bombs*

No idea for lvls 10 and 11

Note that even for the racial restriction of the void bombs my GM alows them
One of my main concerns is the need for Precise Shot and change it for darkness bombs.
I'll be starting at lvl 6 with a +10 to hit(4 dex+4 bab+1 firebug+1 item)
The main point of the build is combat versatility

Thanks in advance


I would get Precise Shot, +4 to hit is huge. I'd get it fairly early as well, but exactly when is up to you.

I would also probably get a discovery that changes the element of your bomb from fire to something else (Frost/Shock/Acid/Force-Bombs). I'm currently playing a level 3 alchemist and I can't tell you how happy I am that I decided to pick up Frost Bombs as my first discovery.

Bruising Intellect and Clever Wordplay are both Social Traits, which means you can't take both.

You're targeting Touch AC, and even if you miss you still do some damage ... You don't need 18 DEX, 16 would be fine.

Like the point above, you don't need 20 INT at level 1. INT is your most important stat, so pump it all you like, but alchemists really don't need to pump it sky-high at level 1.

With all those points you saved by dropping INT and DEX you can afford to up your wisdom modifier ... your current stats have you at a -1 to will-saves at level 1 (unless you're getting a racial bonus). This number won't get to +1 until level 6. That's bad.

Other than that your choices all look pretty solid, and more importantly fun. Post level 10 you could look at buffs or more damage.

For self-buffing I like Enhance/Extend/Eternal Potion. Pick a Potion you like, Enhance it to your character level, then extend it for extra fun (Forgot to mention you're using ALCHEMICAL ALLOCATION so you don't even use up the potion). HEROISM is a great long-term buff. A potion of Heroism costs 300gp, and extended/enhanced it'll last 20 minutes per level. If you're over level 10 that's over 3 hours, if you get to level 16 Eternal Potion makes that eternal.

For more damage you could go Two-Weapon-Fighting. If you get all 3 TWF feats plus Rapid Shot plus Haste you can throw 8 bombs per round. At level 15 your BAB is +11. If we include Iteratives, TWF/ITWF/GTWF, Rapid Shot and Haste your attack routine looks like this: +8/+8/+8/+8/+3/+3/-2/-2. Adding your DEX and assuming some buffs (let's say heroism) you could very VERY easily be doing something like: +16/+16/+16/+16/+11/+11/+6/+6 (against Touch AC).

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Tales Subscriber

Why Bruising Intellect/Clever Wordplay? Do you really need face skills?
I'd go more for Pragmatic Activator, to get Int to UMD.

IMHO, the Grenadier archetype screams "i blow stuff up!" so, what reasons do you need Infusions or a Tumor Familiar? Go for Cognatogen- that -2 St/+4 Int w/ +2 NA can make your bombs hurt more. "Debuffing" bombs like the Tanglefoot and Darkness seem moot when you get Precise Bombs for free, Focused Bombs, and later Staggering Bombs.

i agree with Charisma, get more elemental bombs- Force and Frost are one that will be helpful when you need them; especially Force vs Incorporeal/Ethereal enemies. Explosive Bombs stacks with the Focused Bomb ability and sets things on fire.

Precise shot is handy, but imo- since you're hitting Touch AC, there's a good chance you'll hit. You could get Weapon Focus (Bombs) to mitigate some of the penalty, or even go Splash Weapon Mastery to get that one guy just out of range.
going the Two Weapon Fighting chain for "carpet bombing" is overkill. just stick with Fast Bombs and save your bombs.

Bragging?:
I have a 10th Lvl Half-Orc Grenadier [11s/20d/15c/22i/10w/7ch- +2D/C Belt, +4 Int Headband]. I don't bother with Infusions, my discoveries are: Explosive Bombs, Frost Bombs, Cognatogen, Spontaneous Healing, Force Bombs, Fast Bombs and recently Syringe Stirge.

Extracts include Targeted Bomb Admixture, Lightning Lash Admixture, and Hobbling Bomb Admixture.

Feats: Point-Blank Shot, Extra Discover x2 [Fast Bombs & Force Bombs], Splash Weapon Mastery, Weapon Focus (Bombs)

My alchemist does 5d6+9 [+6 Int, +3 from FCB], +11 with Cognatogen, +19 with Cognatogen and Targeted Bomb Admixture. I tend to go after secluded enemies to maximize TBA/C damage.

Syringe Stirge discovery has become more flavor that function- two bombs and a full round action to create a flying bomb that attacks whatever you designate, independent of your actions. Worst case? provokes an attack of opportunity.

lastly- SPEND 12G TO GET A BOMB-CHUCKER. +10 Range is a steal, as you'd need Bomber's Eye extact or Far Shot to get more range.
Admixture Vial [5000g] is a good deal when you down two extract at once.

One other aspect of the archetype that is often overlooked- is the alchemical weapon ability... apply an alchemical splash weapon [like acid/holy water/bottled lightning] to a weapon- and still get your int to dmg via Throw Anything with that weapon.
it's a decent fallback plan- as Grenadiers loose Poison Use.


Selvaxri wrote:
Precise shot is handy, but imo- since you're hitting Touch AC, there's a good chance you'll hit.

Even targeting Touch AC a +4 to hit is more than you'll get for 1 feat anywhere else. If you're raly feat-starved you could skip point blank shot and precise shot and take Splash Weapon Mastery. I've done that with my current character, but I can't say my party are thrilled =P

Selvaxri wrote:
going the Two Weapon Fighting chain for "carpet bombing" is overkill. just stick with Fast Bombs and save your bombs.

This is probably true. My point earlier about dropping DEX/INT and pumping WIS was that you have a lot invested in Offence, and could use a little more Defence. Alchemists put out damage pretty easily, so investing in something to keep you in the fight might up your damage output more in the longrun anyway.


I'd recommend replacing the Extra Discovery you're using for Darkness Bomb with Precise Shot. Lowering the light level is going to help enemies and hurt allies, far more than the other way around; many monster NPC's have darkvision, and it's a hell of a lot more common for a monster to be able to see in deeper darkness than it is a PC. Unless you're going into this campaign with the knowledge that the vast majority of your enemies will be regular humans chances are that your allies aren't going to be happy with you for taking this talent as they have to start rolling concealment on their attacks after your turn.


Arachnofiend wrote:
I'd recommend replacing the Extra Discovery you're using for Darkness Bomb with Precise Shot. Lowering the light level is going to help enemies and hurt allies

You are god deem right , didn't think about it , I've though that I could solve that with the darkvision extract

About the Int/Dex being high and the really low WIS it was about roleplay . I tend to play high WIS characters normaly guiding the other players/PC (as im the most experienced so far) but i've decided to take a step back and let them take the lead thus the low WIS.

Also I want to roleplay as semi-insane but super nerdy

Any item to increase will save ?


MensisChemske wrote:

About the Int/Dex being high and the really low WIS it was about roleplay.

Also I want to roleplay as semi-insane but super nerdy
Any item to increase will save ?

Fair enough.

First, you CAN roleplay the low WIS without dumping it. You could leave Perception/etc without ranks and just be a crazy guy.

If you want mechanics to back it up I think the MAD SCIENTIST archetype looks pretty cool. I don't know off the top of my head if it's compatible with Grenadier, and it loses the first 2 discoveries. It's probably not optimised and would require a lot of re-writing. There's also the MASTER CHYMIST prestige class. A 1-level dip gets you the flavour, but again it'd need a re-write.

Even if you're not interested in those options you could use them as inspiration for role-play.

For Items, I did a quick google search and found THIS REDDIT THREAD talking about it. Even without items Iron Will is probably worthwhile.


Dude!

You're a Grenadier! Get Explosive Missile at Level 4! That lets you put a Bomb into an Arrow. You can still use your Level 2 Alchemal Weapon Ability and shoot an arrow that also does 1d6 Alchemist Fire Damage and Bomb Damage. It will also stack with Deadly Aim.

Are you married to Changeling?

Why not Goblin because, well, duh, Goblin Grenadier Alchemist! You take Burn! Burn! Burn! of course. Maybe also Goblin Gunslinger!

Orc or Half Orc is also a good choice: use an Orc Hornbow for extra damage.

For either, I'd want to dip a level in Ranger and get a Wand of Gravity Bow so my arrows would get a Size kick to damage.

Selvaxri wrote:
IMHO, the Grenadier archetype screams "i blow stuff up!" so, what reasons do you need Infusions or a Tumor Familiar?

For Alchemal Allocation: it lets you use a Potion without really using it, basically giving Alchemists access to every spell of every class up to level 3. With Infusion, every party member can use Alchemal Allocation, so now every character in your party basically has every spell in every class up to level 3!


this is my PFS alchemist, played w/ grenadier archetype

Pnevraam :

Male lava gnome alchemist 8 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide 26)
CG Small humanoid (gnome)
Init +5; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +11
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 23, touch 14, flat-footed 20 (+6 armor, +3 Dex, +3 shield, +1 size)
hp 67 (8d8+24)
Fort +10 (+1 trait bonus vs. drugs or poisons), Ref +11, Will +4 (+1 trait bonus vs. mind-affecting effects); +6 bonus vs. poison, +2 trait bonus vs. charm and compulsion
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 20 ft.
Melee gauntlet (from armor) +4/-1 (1d2-1) or
. . unarmed strike +4/-1 (1d2-1 nonlethal)
Ranged bomb +13 (5d6+8 fire) or
. . paueliel heavy crossbow +12 (1d8+1/19-20)
Special Attacks bomb 17/day (4d6+7 fire, DC 23)
Alchemist Extracts Prepared (CL 8th; concentration +15)
. . 3rd—displacement, haste (2), protection from energy
. . 2nd—cat's grace (3), delay poison, invisibility, see invisibility
. . 1st—enlarge person (2, DC 18), reduce person (4, DC 18)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 8, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 24, Wis 10, Cha 9
Base Atk +6; CMB +2; CMD 17
Feats Ability Focus (bomb), Brew Potion, Craft Wondrous Item, Endurance, Extra Bombs[APG], Point-Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Throw Anything, Weapon Focus (bomb)
Traits birthmark, reactionary, secret revolutionary (cheliax)
Flaws noncombatant, provincial
Skills Acrobatics +10 (+6 to jump), Appraise +12, Craft (alchemy) +15 (+23 to create alchemical items), Craft (poison) +15, Diplomacy -1 (-5 vs. law-abiding citizens (except enemies of the authority that accused you)), Disable Device +15, Fly +15, Heal +5, Knowledge (arcana) +15, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +10, Knowledge (nature) +15, Knowledge (planes) +10, Knowledge (religion) +10, Perception +11, Sleight of Hand +10, Spellcraft +15, Use Magic Device +10
Languages Abyssal, Common, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Giant, Gnome, Halfling, Orc, Sylvan
SQ alchemy (alchemy crafting +8), discoveries (directed bomb, explosive bomb, precise bombs [7 squares], strafe bomb[UM]), infamous, master tinker[APG], mutagen (+4/-2, +2 natural armor, 80 minutes), poison use, swift alchemy
Combat Gear iron cobra gauntlet[UE], wand of cure moderate wounds (20 charges), wand of invisibility (5 charges), wand of restoration (25 charges); Other Gear +1 mithral kikko armor[UC], +2 mithral sainte, paueliel heavy crossbow, carpet of flying i, cloak of resistance +2, handy haversack, headband of vast intelligence +4, alchemist's lab, masterwork thieves' tools, 150 gp
--------------------
Tracked Resources
--------------------
Bomb 4d6+7 (17/day, DC 23) (Su) - 0/17
Iron cobra gauntlet (3/day) - 0/3
Wand of cure moderate wounds (20 charges) - 0/20
Wand of invisibility (5 charges) - 0/5
Wand of restoration (25 charges) - 0/25
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Alchemy +8 (Su) +8 to Craft (Alchemy) to create alchemical items, can Id potions by touch.
Bomb 4d6+7 (17/day, DC 23) (Su) Thrown Splash Weapon deals 4d6+7 fire damage.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Directed Bomb (Su) The alchemist can cause his bombs to splash in a 15-foot cone instead of a 5-foot-radius burst. The alchemist chooses the direction of the cone. If the attack misses, roll an additional 1d8 to determine the direction of the blast from where the bomb
Endurance +4 to a variety of fort saves, skill and ability checks. Sleep in L/M armor with no fatigue.
Explosive Bomb (Su) Bombs have splash radius 10 ft. and those directly hit catch fire.
Infamous -4 to diplo vs. law-abiding citizens.
Master Tinker You are proficient with any weapon you have personally crafted.
Mutagen (DC 21) (Su) Mutagen adds +4/-2 to physical/mental attributes, and +2 nat. armor for 80 minutes.
Point-Blank Shot +1 to attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at up to 30 feet.
Poison Use You do not risk poisoning yourself accidentally while poisoning a weapon.
Precise Bombs (Su) Exclude up to 7 squares from splash damage of your bombs.
Rapid Shot You get an extra attack with ranged weapons. Each attack is at -2.
Strafe Bomb (80 ft.) (Su) The alchemist can throw bombs that splash in a 40-foot line rather than affecting a radius. The line starts at the alchemist and extends away from him in the direction he chooses. The alchemist designates one creature in the squares affected by the l
Swift Alchemy (Ex) Construct alchemical items in half the normal time.
Throw Anything Proficient with improvised ranged weapons. +1 to hit with thrown splash weapons.


I am Nemesis wrote:
this is my PFS alchemist, played w/ grenadier archetype** spoiler omitted **...

Nice build , but a question not just to you also to everyone else (which are being really helpful thnks a lot)

What is your favorite/best elemental bomb im doubting which to choose Void Bomb, Frost Bomb or Force Bomb


Frost bomb = xd6 frost damage, direct hit fort save vs staggered.

Force bomb = xd4 force damage, direct hit ref save vs prone.

Void bomb = xd4 bludgeoning damage, direct hit ref save vs prone (for 1.5 rounds) or speed reduced to 5'on save. Splash ref save vs reduced speed.

So aside from force damage Void bomb seems strictly superior to force bomb. If you face a lot of incorporeal creatures then force bomb is probably better, but otherwise go void.

However if we're talking about a character that starts at level 1 then waiting till level 6 for void bomb (or 8 for force bomb) is a big ask. Getting a different damage type from level 2 is going to do a lot for you. At later levels staggered can shut down some nasty enemies too.


PS I forgot to add: Bombs are a Supernatural Ability, so by default they do harm incorporeal creatures, but they deal half damage. If you don't take Force Bombs you can still hit ghosts.


i personally like Frost bomb because it forces a fortitude save, Void bomb comes in second

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