Goliath Druid wildshape into Two-Headed Troll, possible?

[Char-Gen addict]

Is the Two-Headed Troll a legal choice for the Goliath Druid's 6th level wildshape ability?

Is this Monster a template of the standard troll and as such not legal or can you choose it?

[Claxon]

No, it doesn't appear to be a template. I can't see anything special about what it would give you aside from having two bites instead of one. Otherwise I think transforming into a two-headed troll is the same as transforming into a regular troll (because the stat bonuses are the same).

[willuwontu]

It's a valid choice.

Referencing the material the source is said to be from, in that book it is a specific monster, however that monster is based on a creature that's pre-existing with a line indicating the material it is from [Male two-headed troll (Tome of Horrors Revised 353)]. This indicated that the creature is from page 353 of Tomb of Horrors Revised (a 3.5 supplement). However, given that the only ToH Revised for 3.5 I know of doesn't mention troll and is only 36 pages long, I'm unsure of what they were actually referencing.

In anycase, the creature is not a template, nor a unique creature, and is therefore valid to take. However, I am unaware whether PFS restricts sources for wild shape and the like, and thus whether this is PFS legal.

[Claxon]

Probably not PFS legal as the sources aren't legal for PFS as far as I know.

[Diego Rossi]

willuwontu wrote:

It's a valid choice.

Referencing the material the source is said to be from, in that book it is a specific monster, however that monster is based on a creature that's pre-existing with a line indicating the material it is from [Male two-headed troll (Tome of Horrors Revised 353)]. This indicated that the creature is from page 353 of Tomb of Horrors Revised (a 3.5 supplement). However, given that the only ToH Revised for 3.5 I know of doesn't mention troll and is only 36 pages long, I'm unsure of what they were actually referencing.

In anycase, the creature is not a template, nor a unique creature, and is therefore valid to take. However, I am unaware whether PFS restricts sources for wild shape and the like, and thus whether this is PFS legal.

Tome of horrors, not Tomb.

A third part product, so I don't think it is PFS legal.
Maybe if the player has Pathfinder 32: Rivers Run Red, where the stat block is published, but I doubt it as it is only a stat block, not a complete monster entry.

[Jeff Merola]

Diego Rossi wrote:

willuwontu wrote:

It's a valid choice.

Referencing the material the source is said to be from, in that book it is a specific monster, however that monster is based on a creature that's pre-existing with a line indicating the material it is from [Male two-headed troll (Tome of Horrors Revised 353)]. This indicated that the creature is from page 353 of Tomb of Horrors Revised (a 3.5 supplement). However, given that the only ToH Revised for 3.5 I know of doesn't mention troll and is only 36 pages long, I'm unsure of what they were actually referencing.

In anycase, the creature is not a template, nor a unique creature, and is therefore valid to take. However, I am unaware whether PFS restricts sources for wild shape and the like, and thus whether this is PFS legal.

Tome of horrors, not Tomb.

A third part product, so I don't think it is PFS legal.
Maybe if the player has Pathfinder 32: Rivers Run Red, where the stat block is published, but I doubt it as it is only a stat block, not a complete monster entry.

Only Bestiaries 1 through 6 are listed as legal sources for polymorph effects in PFS. The only things legal from Rivers Run Red are the spell tracking mark and the customized summon list.

[Char-Gen addict]

Thanks for the answers.
For me, at least, PFS isn't relevant. So no problem.

[Derklord]

willuwontu wrote:

In anycase, the creature is not (...) a unique creature

No, it is a unique creature. Every creature is a unique creature! Of course, that's irrelevant for polymorphing - you wouldn't be able to transform into that two-headed ogre, just a different one. Even if we only know one member of a race, doesn't mean there isn't a race. Creatures that don't have their own race are the ones with a template or that are an advanced version.

[Pizza Lord]

I would likely say No. I haven't read the original sources, but if it doesn't say that two-headed trolls are a race or species (or that having two-heads is a common physical trait of trolls (which I don't believe) as it is with ettins, then typically you become an average specimen of the race. If you can choose characteristics, the must be within a set norm. For humans, that could be hair of a wide range of color (or even bald) but not blue hair. There might be some humans with blue hair, but it is definitely not the norm.

I don't know how that troll got two heads. Perhaps a genetic glitch when reattaching one. Maybe a mutation or curse. Just like there could be dwarves born with one arm (even an entire family line known for such) but it wouldn't be considered the norm for dwarves to polymorph or change into one.

Again, just playing devil's advocate. If there is wording that it is a race, it would be fine.

[Derklord]

The CRB says "Although many of the fine details can be controlled, your appearance is always that of a generic member of that creature’s type." We don't exactly now what a creature's "type" is, but what we do know is that some shape shifter monsters have "dog" as a shape change form in their stat block, even though dog it's a subspecies of wolf.

Because of that, I'd go with what's written down, with the only stated limitation regarding the 'target' form being "Polymorph spells cannot be used to assume the form of a creature with a template or an advanced version of a creature."

According to the AP, the troll in question has "Male two-headed troll" written in the stat block, a line which is described in the Bestiary as "Race, Class, and Level", which would make "two-headed troll" the race unless there's a template involved. Furthermore, the creature is "Said to be the bastard son of an ettin father and a troll mother". Ettins naturally have two head, which means this isn't a "bitten by a radioactive spider" situation, but a natural occurance.

[Bellona]

Based on the sources listed, I would not allow it.

(This thread is re-opened in case one of my players asks the same question.)