Skittermander minis


General Discussion


Does anyone know of a good mini to use for the skittermanders, in the Skitter Shot module?

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Maps, Rulebook, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Neat! Thanks!


Awesome! Thanks!

Lantern Lodge Customer Service & Community Manager

Removed a post to determine the linked item's status with our licensing department.


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maybe you should reach out to the linked site and see if they can actually produce your minis. Can't be more of a cluster than your current deal with Ninja Division...


Personally, I just bought some craft store small colored fluff balls and glued them to bases.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Here are the skittershot minis that I made for Skittershot. It’s my art, not Paizo’s. You can print it, cut it, then glue on to card stock. Fold them. If you secure the bottom with a paper clip, they’ll be able to stand up without blowing over.


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I can attest to Hmm's work being zorking adorable.

What I did when I ran this was print the official artwork in miniature on posterboard, punched out 1" circles, and glued them to metal washers that are perfectly sized for a 1" scale map.


Sara Marie wrote:
Removed a post to determine the linked item's status with our licensing department.

I would understand you removing it IF you actually offered skittermander minis, but since you don't (at least not yet), and your last few Pathfinder minis took forever to produce, you should allow players and creators the right to purchase and produce them until you do. That's pretty greedy of you. You guys make plenty of money off of us as is, and Pathfinder took most of its concept off of D&D in its creation. You should be supportive of your fans, not oppressive. Sara, you have been one of the greatest customer support agents ever over the years, but I highly disagree with this!


Thanks Hmm, those are cute. Hopefully they don't punish you over copyrights.


Sara Marie wrote:
Removed a post to determine the linked item's status with our licensing department.

The more I think about this, the more it irritates me. I have a P.F.B. minis subscription, I have spent THOUSANDS of dollars that I can barely afford on Paizo's minis, maps, modules, and other products, I always spend hundreds at the Gen Con booth waiting in that horrible Thursday line eating up my hall time, I always attend P.F./S.F. Society games at Origins and Gen Con, I support Paizo in MANY ways, and after all of that, when all I wanted was to buy some minis to play one of your modules, you totally block me over some ridiculous "rights" issue, when you don't even offer the item that you blocked, or any kind of skittermander minis (cardboard pawns don't count). Very disappointed!


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Welcome to the horrors of copyright law where a company like Paizo needs to actively enforce their copyright or risk losing it.

Don't get annoyed at Paizo, get annoyed at the ludicrous nature of trademarks and copyrights.


Pathfinder directly took most of its creatures from the D&D monster manuals, in some cases slightly changing the names to avoid copywriting, even though it's still the same monster. Paizo could have extended the same courtesy to the manufacturer of the skittermander minis, and asked them to rename them something else (skattermander? skittermonsters? something else), instead of just blocking them from selling them. Seems hypocritical to me, but I'm sure everyone on this site will automatically defend Paizo.


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Brell Stormforge wrote:
Pathfinder directly took most of its creatures from the D&D monster manuals, in some cases slightly changing the names to avoid copywriting, even though it's still the same monster. Paizo could have extended the same courtesy to the manufacturer of the skittermander minis, and asked them to rename them something else (skattermander? skittermonsters? something else), instead of just blocking them from selling them. Seems hypocritical to me, but I'm sure everyone on this site will automatically defend Paizo.

There's a time and a place for discussions over the design and sale of items pertaining to Paizo's copyright. It is not on this forum at this time. For all we know, they sent an offer to officially make some Skittermander minis, and the arrangement will benefit everybody.

The D&D stuff that Paizo used was largely open source stuff from the 3.0 Open Gaming Licence. Paizo has been pretty generous with its licenses as far as I can tell, but they still need to protect their property.

It's less "everyone on this site will automatically defend Paizo" and more "some of the people on this site have a basic understanding of intellectual property law."

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Although I like Paizo a lot, sometimes they mess up and I call them on it. However, defending copyright is something they have to do.

Besides, for all we know, Paizo will contact the manufacturer and ask them to be a licensed producer. That's what I would do in their shoes. They need skittermander minis to be put out there, just like we do.

Hmm

Lantern Lodge Customer Service & Community Manager

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Brell, I appreciate your feedback. Like you, we are frustrated and disappointed by the lack of Starfinder minis available. While I understand there's a wide variety of opinions on copyright, intellectual property and licenses, we really can't host links to unlicensed merchandise on our own website.


if you didn't already bookmark that site, you can also kitbash a skittermander by taking the arms off of some ewok minis from the Star Wars minis lines, attaching them to another model and then painting the whole thing up in a vibrant color.


It's not just a matter of removing the link from this site, since then all of the skittermander minis have been completely removed from that site. Any reason I could think of would be pure speculation, but before the link was removed they had several skittermander options, and now right after Paizo removed the link, they no longer sell skittermander minis. So did Paizo threaten them, or tell them to stop selling them? That's more my complaint than just removing the link.


Where is the right time and place Dracomicron?


Brell Stormforge wrote:


Where is the right time and place Dracomicron?

Presumably Paizo's counsel's office, at an appointed meeting between the prospective retailer and Paizo representatives. We, as third parties, don't really factor in.

To answer your previous post's questions, they probably politely asked the retailer to cease & desist until such time as a resolution is attained, if ever. The retailer likely acknowledged the copyright grievance and complied.

Intellectual property is a game company's lifeblood. They absolutely can't afford to let people make money on their copyright without response. Leaving that door open would be a disaster.


Elegos wrote:

Welcome to the horrors of copyright law where a company like Paizo needs to actively enforce their copyright or risk losing it.

Don't get annoyed at Paizo, get annoyed at the ludicrous nature of trademarks and copyrights.

Oh, I am.

Still waiting for the day when Disney's lawyers are swallowed up by the sea.


Dracomicron, you're completely correct. We certainly do not factor in.


Speaking of possible partnering with other manufacturers. I wish Paizo and Archknight would get together for official Starfinder transparent plastic pawns. I like Paizo's old school cardboard pawns for Pathfinder, but the transparent plastic ones that Archknight makes, would be more in theme with futuristic sci-fi.


EltonJ wrote:


Still waiting for the day when Disney's lawyers are swallowed up by the sea.

What did the sea ever do to you?


if you don't defend a copyright, you can lose it, so I can't blame Paizo for that, but AFAIK they didn't have a contract with Ninja Division for sole rights, so maybe they can get with that other site and get some minis actually made. Seems like a win/win/win.


And the answers won't come within a week. This sort of business deal tends to take at least a month to schedule the appropriate meetings around everyone's schedule. Then another few weeks for the lawyers to look it over, then some more time for an actual business plan, etc, etc.


I'd be surprised if they could manufacture for Paizo on a scale to meet demand. It seems like they are working off of smaller scale 3D printing capabilities. But hopefully they or someone gets with Paizo and makes some more skittermander and Starfinder minis, in a timely manner. I still wish they'd give the company at least temporary permission to manufacture the skittermanders, until Paizo can fill the demand for them. But what do I know? Everyone clearly finds me to be in the wrong and those supporting Paizo's actions to be in the right. So my opinion is singular and insignificant.


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Brell Stormforge wrote:
I'd be surprised if they could manufacture for Paizo on a scale to meet demand. It seems like they are working off of smaller scale 3D printing capabilities. But hopefully they or someone gets with Paizo and makes some more skittermander and Starfinder minis, in a timely manner. I still wish they'd give the company at least temporary permission to manufacture the skittermanders, until Paizo can fill the demand for them. But what do I know? Everyone clearly finds me to be in the wrong and those supporting Paizo's actions to be in the right. So my opinion is singular and insignificant.

More like anything law related is unnecessarily complicated, but everyone has to play along or they lose.


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Elegos wrote:

Welcome to the horrors of copyright law where a company like Paizo needs to actively enforce their copyright or risk losing it.

Don't get annoyed at Paizo, get annoyed at the ludicrous nature of trademarks and copyrights.

To follow up on this, it is 100% accurate.

Once Paizo personnel in an official capacity are aware of something that might infringe their copyright they must enforce it or risk losing it.

If they don't enforce it that other company could sue, sighting when they didn't enforce it and try to claim it themselves. Copyright laws are screwy.

Now, Paizo might reach an agreement that allows a company a license to temporarily produce an item until such time that Paizo is able to produce it themselves (although very few companies would do that because it's not very profitable when you right to sell the item could be revoked at "any" time). They might even give a more favorable licensing deal to the company. But regardless they need some sort of legal deal or open themselves up to lot of trouble in the future.

I understand being frustrated that you can't purchase the product, but this is necessary legal action on Paizo's part and hashing out the details will take some time. It's not something that is resolved in hours or days.


Brell Stormforge wrote:
I'd be surprised if they could manufacture for Paizo on a scale to meet demand. It seems like they are working off of smaller scale 3D printing capabilities. But hopefully they or someone gets with Paizo and makes some more skittermander and Starfinder minis, in a timely manner. I still wish they'd give the company at least temporary permission to manufacture the skittermanders, until Paizo can fill the demand for them. But what do I know? Everyone clearly finds me to be in the wrong and those supporting Paizo's actions to be in the right. So my opinion is singular and insignificant.

it'd probably be more along the lines of selling the 3D print file like Hero Forge allows. You can just buy the file and then print them yourselves if you have access to a 3D printer.


Not that I'll probably have a choice, but I prefer buying them already printed, as the company printing them most likely is using a higher quality printer than I can afford.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
yukongil wrote:
if you don't defend a copyright, you can lose it, so I can't blame Paizo for that, but AFAIK they didn't have a contract with Ninja Division for sole rights, so maybe they can get with that other site and get some minis actually made. Seems like a win/win/win.

I should point out that it is trademarks and not copyrights that can be lost if you don't actively defend them. Legally, you can be completely arbitrary about stopping some copyright violations while ignoring others -- but it is better for public relations purposes to enforce a consistent policy.

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