Hey folks, I am still quite new to PF, but I have found the community here to be one of the most helpful that I've ever been involved with.
I've wanted to play a Paladin Wizard multiclass since I was about 12, back in the 80s, when I was playing D&D 1e and B/X. I never got to fulfill that fantasy then, and now I am back playing with my kids. I probably will only ever play home games, but I can't help but analyze, look up optimizations, and do research even if I decide not to use them.
I found this thread, and it concerned me that everyone there understood that a Paladin Wizard combo is generally a bad idea, which brings me to some questions:
1. What is it that is so obviously bad about a Paladin Wizard?
2. I intend to play one anyway, maybe 2/3 Paladin 1/3 Wizard (if that makes sense), and I am wondering if anyone has suggestions of ways to meld (coordinate? synergize? combine as happily as possible?) the two classes?
They're total opposites.
Paladins wear heavy armor, wield big weapons, and go to the front lines. Wizards wear no armor, wield small weapons if any, and stay in the back. Wearing armor will most likely mess up your wizard spellcasting.
Paladins need STR, CON, WIS and CHA. Wizards need INT and DEX. Unless you're rolling stats and get really lucky, you simply aren't going to be able to cover all your bases adequately.
Paladin levels weaken your spellcasting (and you NEVER want to lose casting on a full spellcaster). Wizard levels weaken your combat abilities (BAB, HP).
Basically, every wizard level weakens your paladin-ness, and every level of paladin-ness weakens your wizardry. You'll want to go one or the other.
As far as melding them goes, the only thing that springs to mind is the Mystic Theurge PrC, which is generally considered pretty lackluster already.
Eldritch Knight, more likely.
It's not impossible to build a fighter/magic-user type, and the EK is one of the classes intended for that. But it's a difficult build at best.
Eldritch Knight doesn't advance his Paladin casting, though ... but it's a tradeoff for being a generally better warrior.
He could just make a Wizard/Eldritch Knight or Magus and flavor the character as devout and religious, even going so far as to make him lawful good and generally obeying the tenants of being a Paladin.
I think the Eldritch Knight fits the flavor more than the Magus does personally.
Just echoing the others, but there's almost no more terrible multiclass than what you're planning. If I had a choice as a fellow player, I'd never allow one in my adventuring party.
Be a pure wizard and hire a paladin bodyguard might be a alternative!
Or... ask your DM if you can play an ettin, one head is a wizard, the other is a paladin ;)
Sorcadin is better, stack CHA, and get access to some nice buff spells like Shield at lvl 1 so you have them for when you go out big with a 2 handed weapon. Access to cantrips, and possibly a familiar, or other useful bloodline power, and you may actually be in better shape than people will give you credit for.
In 3.5 one of my DMs made an NPC for us to fight that started out this way and then went Abjurant Champion.
You at least want to be a sorcerer/paladin, to leverage charisma. Still pretty bad, but not AS bad.
They're total opposites.
Paladins wear heavy armor, wield big weapons, and go to the front lines. Wizards wear no armor, wield small weapons if any, and stay in the back. Wearing armor will most likely mess up your wizard spellcasting.Paladins need STR, CON, WIS and CHA. Wizards need INT and DEX. Unless you're rolling stats and get really lucky, you simply aren't going to be able to cover all your bases adequately.
Paladin levels weaken your spellcasting (and you NEVER want to lose casting on a full spellcaster). Wizard levels weaken your combat abilities (BAB, HP).
Basically, every wizard level weakens your paladin-ness, and every level of paladin-ness weakens your wizardry.
This is well said, I appreciate that explanation.
Looking at Eldritch Knight...very interesting, I need to research that some more.
I guess I should add some more clarity to my second question. I am not really interested in a Prestige Class, I want to play a Paladin that is interested in studying wizardry and using arcane spells. (I realize I am defying most of the feedback so far, which feedback I greatly appreciate btw, but I am not trying to be obstinate, I just love the idea of being a Paladin Wizard. The flavor if you will. I confess that part of the draw, part mind you, is that fact that it is an unusual combo. NPCs reactions would be cool, "That paladin is casting arcane spells!!?" Also, the challenge of making the multiclass as viable as possible intrigues me as a player, and I am sure to learn a ton more about the game as I research this--hard to fabricate that kind of motivation. Which all brings me back to asking for help on this thread.)
So one thing I am trying to decide is which school to specialize in and how that will tweak the role of main tank, which I play in the party. Will I take evocation so that I can blast stuff every once in a while (even though I could have done more damage by just staying pure Paladin and whacking on something every round--which totally misses the point btw). Or should I take Divination and act first every battle (even though there are likely more optimal ways of getting the initiative--I really just want to be a Paladin Wizard). Maybe I should get Illusion and use Mirror Image and Invisibility? ...<reading>...actually Admixture looks fascinating, maybe I can figure out how to incorporate that? Any thoughts on this would be helpful and appreciated?
Another thing I am wondering is if there is something that can be done about my armor messing up my arcane spells? Is there special armor I can get at some point? Or some other potential solution?
The arcane bond and divine bond gets me thinking too. Can I combine these in a reasonable enough way to talk my GM into it? Is there a mount that can also act as a familiar? This is not set in stone, but I'd like to have a mount, but I'm not as keen to have a familiar.
You could look into some Forgotten Realms material and try and take the Sword of the Arcane Order feat. Basically does exactly what you want, requires you to max Spellcraft and have a minimum of 14 INT, but it's so worth it for access to spells like Shield, Fly, Haste, and more. The Mystic Fire Knight "archetype" from that series was also really really good for this.
I have seen a few sorcerer/paladin builds that were quite effective. The sorcerer/paladin/dragon disciple for example. I had a PFS character like that early on, and I have seen a few since then. You get even more of that surprise factor you mention. Not only do you have the paladin casting arcane spells, but then either grows claws or uses his breath weapon!
If someone were dead-set on playing a paladin/wizard, I suppose I'd recommend specializing in transmutation, so self-buffing at least would be a possibility.
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Here's the best advice I can give you.
Your stats should focus on DEX, INT, and CHA. Your STR should be at least 13 so you can get Power Attack (14 would be better). Your INT and CHA can also be as low as 14, since you won't be getting high-level spells until you can afford a stat-boosting item. Your DEX should be your main stat.
Avoid any spells that make your target roll a saving throw. You won't have high enough INT for your spells to have save DCs high enough. Focus on beneficial spells that you can cast on yourself, or spells that otherwise don't allow a save (like Magic Missile).
Wear light armor, and use a weapon with reach along with armor spikes. You'll need Arcane Armor Training. You'll also need Combat Reflexes.
On your turn, move to within 15 feet of the enemy you want to hit and cast a spell. Your melee damage will be mainly in the form of AoO's, as people move through your threatened square to get to you. You, meanwhile, won't provoke AoO's with your spellcasting because you won't have to stand next to enemies while you cast.
In the Guide to the Guides thread, there's a link to a "Reach Cleric" build that works on a similar idea-- cast spells on your turn, then hit them with your polearm on theirs.
Dervish Dance is your friend.
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pally/sorc is a better option.
but, since, as lazarX pointed out, the RP of a sorc is much different than a wiz, i'll take a stab at it (it will not be as effective as a pally/sorc though)...
you said you want to be primarily a paladin... embrace that. if you're only ever going to have 7 wizard levels at most, you'll only need a 14 int (enough to cast 4th level spells), and you won't even need that until pretty high level. take angelkin aasimar for race (+2 str/cha)- i don't know how you're doing stats but put an 11-13 in int and focus on other stats in this order: cha, str, dex, con, wis. even if you take a penalty from wis, that's ok (cha will make up for that), and you'll want more con but don't worry (being able to heal yourself as a swift action will make up for lower hp). next you have to figure out how you're gonna protect yourself: you can use spells like a wizard (so you don't need to worry about ASF%), but with very limited casting that may be problematic; you could wear armor (like a pally), but then you have to worry about ASF%... you could address that with the arcane armor feats but they cost a swift action which means you can't heal and cast in the same round, or you could take still spell and cast your spells up a level. the last option is probably the best- pick which spells you'll want during combat, prepare those stilled and plan to use utility spells after taking your armor off. don't take any spells that rely on an opponent failing a saving throw- your int is too low for a good DC.
like i said- its not great, but it should give you a skeleton to build a playable character around.
An abjurer might fit as well thematically.
paladin/magus would be a much better option with the same fluff!
if you're planning to tank, take the sacred shield paladin archetype and the skirnir magus archetype. wear a mithril breastplate with your shield for a decent AC (with 0 ASF, for 0 feats).
I like the idea of a conjuring wizard paladin of the god of arcane magic. You quest to ensure magic is used for good ends and seek to destroy evil manifestations of magic (artifacts, undead, etc.). You are human with spell focus and augmented summoning at level 1. Your celestial conjurings are manifestations of your god and are helping you deal damage, take extra actions, control the battlefield, soak damage, and protect allies. You probably have necromancy and illusion as opposition schools. Your spells are control and buff options with utility options on scroll
You have a decent amount of skill points between being human and a 14 intelligence. You make a good party face, have several knowledge areas, UMD pretty well, and, due to lacking an armor penalty, are better at stealth and athletic skills than other martial chararcters.
You keep Mage armor and shield up, which puts ac in a decent range. You have strong saves across the board. Since you don't need to hold a shield, you wield a two-handed weapon, probably reach to span over the heads of your conjured critters or pits. As mentioned above, you often cast a spell on your turn and attack through provoked attacks off-turn. You aren't getting a big damage bonus from str so you may want combat reflexes before power attack, as suggested above. You can switch it up with a longbow enhanced with the gravity bow spell for decent ranged hits or use your acid dart conjuring trick at close range for a quick blast.
There isn't getting around the stats needed to work this build. Best case, you are working a 25 point build with 14 in dex, con, int, and cha with 13 str and 12 wis. It is a different character, but could be fun and effective I think.
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Also note the feat Unsanctioned Knowledge, which allows you to add some spells from other source to your paladin's list, and the Use Magic Device skill, which works off CHA and would allow you to use arcane spells from wands or scrolls.
Your best bet is a divine hunter paladin/sorcerer (pick a thematic bloodline). Go paladin 6/sorc 1, then take levels in arcane archer. It's not completely optimized, but it gives you the feel of a religous robin hood with merlin overtones.
I realize my suggestion may be unpopular and frowned on as an unoptimized choice, but I'd focus on DEX rather than STR, and go the weapon finesse route.
My reasoning is that since you just plain can't wear any armor as a wizard without screwing yourself right up, you'll need Dex for some basic dodging of attacks. Go with a high-crit, finesse weapon like a rapier (an Agile rapier, once you can afford it) and smite away...
...of course, the inevitable progression of this train of thought is to just tell you to go Magus anyway, which is all about Dex/Int. I agree with everyone that a Paladin-Magus is maybe your best way to get the FLAVOR that you want (a holy, divinely blessed warrior who also studies arcane arts and learns his spells just like a wizard does), while having some mechanical benefits. I mean, a Magus essentially IS a wizard, just one who happens to wade into front-line combat and knows how to use his sword as part of his spells.
I will also echo the UMD thing. The Paladin's CHA means it's not a bad option and it really opens up the spellcasting options you otherwise will have super-limited access to.
I would think Divination would work best thematically but Transmutation would be more effective (looking at spells, not class abilities).
For armor, check out Folding Plate in the APG. Cast your spells before hand then activate your full plate as a standard action.
So, a couple of questions about the project.
1. Is it roleplaying a paladin that interests you, or the mechanical class itself? I ask because ofttimes with a pally, both are involved. If you're interested in the roleplaying aspect only, it should be entirely possible for you to be a paladin in-game, i.e. part of the order, divine vocation, etc., without actually taking levels in paladin, which would allow you to be more mechanically strong.
If you are interested in the mechanics of the paladin, it's almost unavoidable that you'll have to choose which half of your concept (paladin or wizard) to prioritize. Both rely on class levels to really gain strength, and both suffer when you can't give 'em the levels they need.
So, if you are interested in the mechanics of the paladin, which do you prefer more, paladin or wizard?
I suggest going Paladin and then taking only a few diviner(forsigth pehaps for the level 1 power) levels and then throwing in paladin for the rest.
ith 4 levels you get the oppotunity to cast spells like blur and true strike that you can cast in armor.
It is not optimal but it can be great fun. take the wizard levels when you feel that the paladin part is going well.
If you can live with the alkymist he is also a meningfull alternative to the wizard.
I agree with the others that suggested going with Magus instead of Wizard. Go with stats like 10/17/14/14/8/14, and go with Weapon Finesse with a rapier. Two levels of Paladin to start out gets you divine grace, then you can go Magus to get your spellcasting.
Ask the DM about this feat.
Then you can ask about 'inventing' an archetype to go with this:
Mystic Fire Knight (Paladin)
The Knights of the Mystic Fire serve Mystra by guarding her temples and questing for lost magical troves. They develop increased ability to use magic, counter hostile magic, and defeat enemy spellcasters.
Hit Die: d8.
Requirements
To take a Mystic Fire Knight substitution level, a character must have Mystra as her patron deity and be about to take her 4th, 5th, or 6th level of paladin.
Class Skills
Mystic Fire Knight substitution levels have the class skills of the standard paladin plus Knowledge (arcana) and Spellcraft.
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.
TABLE 2-16: MYSTIC FIRE KNIGHT SUBSTITUTION LEVELS
Level Base
Attack
Bonus Fort
Save Ref
Save Will
Save Special
4th +4 +4 +1 +1 Bonus spell, improved spellcasting
5th +5 +5 +1 +1 Smite evil 2/day, special mount
6th +6/1 +5 +2 +2 Spellshatter
Class Features
All of the following are features of the Mystic Fire Knight substitution levels.
Bonus Spell (Su): At 4th level, a Mystic Fire Knight gains a bonus 1st-level paladin spell slot as if from a high Wisdom score. At 8th level, she gains a bonus 2nd-level paladin spell slot, at 11th level she gains a bonus 3rd-level paladin spell slot, and at 14th level she gains a bonus 4th-level paladin spell slot.
This benefit replaces the turn undead class feature gained by a standard paladin at 4th level.
Improved Spellcasting (Ex): When casting paladin spells, a Mystic Fire Knight can treat her caster level as equal to one-half her paladin level +2. If she also has arcane spellcasting ability from another class, she can add her caster level from that class to this value to determine her paladin caster level.
Smite Evil (Su): In addition to the normal effect, when a Mystic Fire Knight of 5th level or higher hits a creature with her smite evil attack, that creature finds it temporarily difficult to cast spells or use spell completion or spell trigger items. For 1 round, any attempt to complete one of these actions requires a successful Concentration check (DC 10 + paladin's level + Cha modifier + spell level); failure means that the action fails. If a spell was being cast, the spell or spell slot is lost; if a magic item was being activated, the attempt merely fails. Multiple smite evil hits on the same creature don't have a cumulative effect.
This class feature augments, but does not replace, the standard paladin's smite evil class feature.
Spellshatter (Su): Once per day starting at 6th level, a Mystic Fire Knight can choose to deliver a targeted greater dispel magic effect with a melee attack. The decision to use this ability must be made before the attack is rolled; if the attack misses, the effect is wasted.
If the attack hits, treat this as if the Mystic Fire Knight had cast a targeted greater dispel magic on the creature struck, using her paladin level (plus any arcane caster level she might have from another class) as her caster level, up to a maximum of +20.
This benefit replaces the standard paladin's remove disease class feature. If the Mystic Fire Knight would later gain an extra weekly use of remove disease, she instead gains an extra daily use of spellshatter.
link
In PF I believe it should looks something like:
Mystic Fire Knight (Paladin)
The Knights of the Mystic Fire serve Mystra by guarding her temples and questing for lost magical troves. They develop increased ability to use magic, counter hostile magic, and defeat enemy spellcasters.
Hit Die: d8.
Class Skills
Mystic Fire Knight has the class skills of the standard paladin plus Knowledge (arcana).
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.
All of the following are features of the Mystic Fire Knight.
Bonus Spell (Su): At 4th level, a Mystic Fire Knight gains a bonus 1st-level paladin spell slot as if from a high Charisma score. At 8th level, she gains a bonus 2nd-level paladin spell slot, at 11th level she gains a bonus 3rd-level paladin spell slot, and at 14th level she gains a bonus 4th-level paladin spell slot.
This benefit replaces the Channel Energy class feature gained by a standard paladin at 4th level.
Improved Spellcasting (Ex): When casting paladin spells, a Mystic Fire Knight can treat her caster level as equal her paladin level. If she also has arcane spellcasting ability from another class, she can add her caster level from that class to this value to determine her paladin caster level.
Smite Evil (Su): In addition to the normal effect, when a Mystic Fire Knight of 5th level or higher hits a creature with her smite evil attack, that creature finds it temporarily difficult to cast spells or use spell completion or spell trigger items. For 1 round, any attempt to complete one of these actions requires a successful Concentration check (DC 10 + paladin's level + Cha modifier + spell level); failure means that the action fails. If a spell was being cast, the spell or spell slot is lost; if a magic item was being activated, the attempt merely fails.
This class feature augments, but does not replace, the standard paladin's smite evil class feature.
Spellshatter (Su): Once per day starting at 6th level, a Mystic Fire Knight can choose to deliver a targeted greater dispel magic effect with a melee attack. The decision to use this ability must be made before the attack is rolled; if the attack misses, the effect is wasted.
If the attack hits, treat this as if the Mystic Fire Knight had cast a targeted greater dispel magic on the creature struck, using her paladin level (plus any arcane caster level she might have from another class) as her caster level, up to a maximum of +20.
This benefit replaces Mercy. Any time the paladin would gain another Mercy, she instead gains another daily use of Spellshatter.
The two are a rather odd couple indeed. But I think there are some interesting options with archetypes.
Paladin / Scroll Master:
If you are a better fighter than most why not use your own scrolls as weapon and shield? The nice thing is that you get the signature ability at level 1 and most abilities of this archetype at level 5.
The level 10 ability is not as interesting to you anyway since it seems you want to focus more on the physical part of battle and thus would not have many feats or a very high caster stat.
RP wise it could be rather fitting as well since you could describe the scrolls as your "holy parchments" (and if you scribe your paladin spells on them they truly are) to exorcise the evils of the world.
And if chanting does not work you bonk them on the head with it.
I am sure you can let them count as your holy symbol as well, if the deity is fitting (something with lore/knowledge).
Divine Hunter / Arcane Bomber:
You can throw bombs and sacrifice spells to make bombs hurt more. Ideal if you wear armor and don't want to risk spell failure.
And if you hit with ranged attacks others get bonuses against the target.
This would be a ranged paladin build.
Holy Gun / Spell Slinger:
To be honest, I have not used firearms a lot thus I have no idea how good this combo would be. But both archetypes use guns so there should be some synergy.
Holy Tactician / Siege Bomber:
This character would much likely be a high ranking officer in an army that overlooks the siege engines. He can command and boost morale of his troops and he can buff the engines of war with his spells.
Maybe not quite a PC build, but I think this could make a great NPC General. Since you are GM you may be able to introduce such a character in your game (since you mentioned you don't have many chances to play yourself).
Some thoughts on the combination in general:
Still Spell metamagic allows casting in full armor without failure or specialize in spells that only have verbal components. Command is rather fitting in that regard since Paladins are usually people who's orders are obeyed. With command you can force unwilling to kneel and similar ^^
If you do not want to wear (heavy) armor you can use your spells to fill in for it (Mage Armor and Shield).
Specializing on ranged attacks gives a bit more synergy since both profit from dexterity. Supplement your normal ranged attacks with spells that need ranged touch attacks. With your "higher than wizard" BAB you will hit most targets with ease.
Decide if you want a mount or a familiar or none or both? Paladin on a horse with a falcon would be rather cool (falconer was a popular hobby for knights and nobles).
"That paladin is casting arcane spells!!?" Also, the challenge of making the multiclass as viable as possible intrigues me as a player, and I am sure to learn a ton more about the game as I research this--hard to fabricate that kind of motivation. Which all brings me back to asking for help on this thread.)
Another idea could be to just be a paladin with Use magic device and some ranks in Spellcraft and Knowledge(Arcana), who keeps lots of scrolls and wands around to cast Arcane spells. Maybe the dude could take some crafting feats.
So one thing I am trying to decide is which school to specialize in and how that will tweak the role of main tank, which I play in the party.
The transmutation school gives a bonus to stats, even more with the Enahnacement subschool. This could be helpful.
If dip a few levels of scrollmaster wizard, you can use scrolls as magic weapons, which would be useful, though I cannot take someone serious, who charges into battle with apiece of paper.
You won't be that much of a tank anymore. The Arcane Armor Training and Arcane Armor Mastery feats might help here, but you still lose out a bit AC and lots of HP and Bab. This could be mitigated by fusion your 2 Classes into Eldtrtch Knight.
A lawful good magus could work too, maybe.
Will I take evocation.
Since most blasts scale with your caster level, blasting is genrally a bad idea, when multiclassing. The magical Knack trait could lower this disadvantage.
First off thanks for all of the feedback, I carefully (some more than others) considered each suggestion.
Thanks for Arcane Armor Training, I was not aware of that one yet.
On your turn, move to within 15 feet of the enemy you want to hit and cast a spell. Your melee damage will be mainly in the form of AoO's, as people move through your threatened square to get to you. You, meanwhile, won't provoke AoO's with your spellcasting because you won't have to stand next to enemies while you cast.
Wow, that is a super good idea. I am not going to go this route (my paladin will wield a bastard sword just like he did 30 years ago plus the GM said if we pronounce it "bay-stard sword" with a Minnesotan accent it does not require a feat to use it as an exotic weapon, hehe), but it's exactly the cleverness that I am looking for.
So, a couple of questions about the project.
1. Is it roleplaying a paladin that interests you, or the mechanical class itself? I ask because ofttimes with a pally, both are involved...
So, if you are interested in the mechanics of the paladin, which do you prefer more, paladin or wizard?
Interested in both (roleplay and mechanics), and Paladin will take precedence over wizard.
I looked at the Magus for a long time because of all of the suggestions, it is a really good idea too.
I am leaning toward Necromancy and Enchantment as opposition schools, but I'm still researching specialization school. Transmutation, Illusion, or Admixture are my top candidates at the moment.
master_marshmallow, the GM is not thrilled about Sword of the Arcane Order feat, but that archtype you made is awesome!
Karuth- Still Spell is a good idea. Both a horse and a hawk familiar is also a cool idea, one that I am going to go with. Actually I am going to get a mongoose or osprey familiar, that'd be cool.
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I got some more info from the GM.
First he says not to worry too much about stats, that we are playing epic fantasy (nice eh). Furthermore he said we are going to play some of the old school modules. Relevant to this point is that we will be playing B1, X2 and one other where there are items/situations where ability scores can be increased. Should be fun. (I remember the B1 mica stone because I DMed that dungeon when I was little. I don't remember ability increases in X2. And I don't know what the other module is, but I can't remember any other modules that had ways to increase ability scores. Anyone else remember?)
Second, and he says this is a long ways out, but eventually we will play into the epic levels beyond 20th, and that multiclassers will be able to continue progression. Furthermore, the whole party is multiclassers for this reason. We have a Fighter/Sorcerer, a Wizard that will dip Ranger, a Cleric that will dip Rogue and probably Sorcerer, and then me a Paladin/Wizard.
So that changes the approach a bit.
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If you are an aasimar with scion of humanity and take 4 levels of eldritch knight (or are a human, but it will be harder to enter without the SLA, (or fighter if you prefer)), you can get the human only feat martial versatility and can apply dervish dance to a bastard sword and get the d10 weapon and the dex to-hit/damage. Taking the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (whip) feat means you can cast from 15 feet away and trip people as well. I second the transmutation focus to buff, and you can wear armor. Darkleaf Studded Leather has only a 5% ASF, and Darkleaf Lamellar Leather armor or mithral chain shirt only has a 10%. You don't necessarily need AAT. Also, you might want to pick up the Arcane Strike feat for rounds you don't LoH/Smite/AAT to get a bit of DR overcoming power without needing to smite, and a bit of a bonus to hit.
Also, how are you getting stats? Point-Buy? Rolling 2d6+6? Rolling 4d6 drop lowest?
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Silent Spell still works to avoid the chance of arcane casting failure, if you don't want to go the Dex route as people suggested above. Or stick with non-sommatic spells. True Strike is useful, for example. Heck, you can argue that a level in wizard is useful if all your level one spell slots are prep'd with True Strike.
Go to this thread for a list of spells without a somatic component.
You need eventually a 19 to Int, high Str, reasonable Con, and a Cha of 14.
Divination works. Though the generalists throw melee weapon ability would provably work well with a smiting two handed sword.
Nothing wrong with getting every possible plus one; but as long as you're not gimped, play what you enjoy!
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True strike as all your spells is a standard action buff that lasts for 1 round. I would imagine that it would serve a ranged character better because they don't have to move, cast, and move again and can get full attack with the first one being +20. Still a nice spell. Also, Enlarge Person is a great spell for being all up in there face if you can take the -2 AC for a +1 damage and a +1 damage size.
even with that info from your GM, pally/magus is still a better option.
the ability to cast in light armor and combine casting with melee is a huge.
Point buy with 25 points.
I expect we can augment our stats with headbands and belts, yes?
I really don't know that much about gestalt, but maybe we are playing that kind of game. Or not because the classes are not synergistic? I better go research gestalt, maybe there's something I can use there.
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Stats could look like this for a dex based hybrid at level 1
Str10
Dex16
Con14
Int15
Wis7
Cha15
before racial modifiers, try and put a +2 in Dex. For this I would recommend trying for a dervish build and getting 4 levels of fighter or EK. and getting martial versatility for a bastard (or bay-stard) sword to dervish dance it, but only if you have the levels to burn.
A str build would look more like
Str15
Dex14
Con14
Int14
Wis7
Cha15
before racial modifiers and you can use a bastard sword all day long.
Or you could take a single level of lore oracle (try for a curse like tongues that doesn't actually hurt much) you could dump dex and have it your 1st level with the sidestep secret lore revelation. Stats like
Str16
Dex7
Con13
Int16
Wis7
Cha16
before modifiers.
Again I suggest getting Darkleaf Studded Leather for a +3 AC and only a 5% ASF. You could also settle for Haramaki for a +1 armor bonus to AC with no ASF. If you want to go magus, Kensai could complement a higher Int build because you can get Int on top of dex/cha to AC.
gestalt is a totally different beast than multiclassing... you don't switch back and forth between classes, you effectively combine 2 classes into one new class that uses the best values/features from each class. this sounds better (and in most ways it is) but it does force you to raise your casting stat more (since your total caster level would be much higher). if you find out that you are playing gestalt, let everybody here know (or create a new thread about it) and i'm sure you'll get some more advice on it.
also, since i'm writing anyways, i'll restate my belief that magus is a better option than wizard (regardless of whether you're multiclassing or gestalt), and that if you want to tank the skirnir archetype (from ultimate combat) is worth looking at (as is the sacred shield paladin archetype, just make sure you can deal enough damage, or otherwise sufficiently inconvenience the enemies to make it worth their while to attack you instead of others).
Just as a suggestion for a slightly different approach to a wizard/paladin combination: Have you considered going pure paladin and getting very few impressive-looking spells such as blasts?
For example, here is a level 13 (WBL level 12) paladin that I built with casting as priority and melee combat as secondary role:
Pure Casterdin Paladin
Male Human Paladin (Hospitaler, Sacred Servant) 13
LG Medium Humanoid (human)
Init +5; Senses Perception +11
Aura aura of healing
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Defense
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AC 27, touch 13, flat-footed 24 (+9 armor, +3 shield, +3 Dex, +2 natural)
hp 95 (13d10+13)
Fort +20, Ref +18, Will +17
Immune disease, fear; Resist fire 20
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee Light Shield Bash +15/+10/+5 (1d3+2/x2) and
. . Rod of lordly might +17/+12/+7 (1d6+4/x2)
Ranged +1 Adaptive, Seeking Composite longbow (Str +0) +17/+12/+7 (1d8+3/x3)
Special Attacks smite evil (3/day)
Spell-Like Abilities Call Celestial Ally (1/week), Detect Evil (At will)
Paladin (Hospitaler, Sacred Servant) Spells Prepared (CL 12):
4 (1/day) Wall of Fire
3 (3/day) Fireball (DC 20)
2 (4/day) Produce Flame
1 (5/day) Burning Hands (DC 18)
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Statistics
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Str 14, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 7, Cha 24
Base Atk +13; CMB +15; CMD 28
Feats Craft Magic Arms & Armor, Craft Rod, Craft Wondrous Item, Magical Aptitude, Power Attack -4/+8, Quick Channel, Selective Channeling, Unsanctioned Knowledge (Haste, Freedom of Movement) (Unsanctioned Knowledge (Shield of Faith, Alter , Unsanctioned Knowledge (Shield of Faith, Alter Self)
Traits Magical Knack (Paladin [Hospitaler, Sacred Servant]), Reactionary
Skills Acrobatics +7, Climb +3, Diplomacy +11, Escape Artist +1, Fly +1, Handle Animal +11, Heal +5, Knowledge (arcana) +7, Knowledge (nobility) +10, Knowledge (planes) +7, Knowledge (religion) +10, Linguistics +3, Perception +11, Ride +5, Sense Motive +2, Spellcraft +22, Stealth +2, Swim +0, Use Magic Device +24
Languages Azlanti, Common, Polyglot, Snakepeople
SQ aura of courage, aura of good, divine bonds (divine symbol +3 [13 minutes] [3/day]), domains (fire), fire bolt (1/day), lay on hands (6d6) (13/day), mercies (mercy [cursed], mercy [diseased], mercy [fatigued], mercy [poisoned]), paladin channel positive energy 5d6 (10/day) (dc 2
Combat Gear Pearl of power (1st level) (1/day), Pearl of power (1st level) (1/day), Pearl of power (3rd level) (1/day); Other Gear Celestial armor, +2 Darkwood Light wooden quickdraw shield, +1 Adaptive, Seeking Composite longbow (Str +0), Rod of lordly might, Amulet of natural armor +2, Belt of incredible dexterity +2, Cloak of resistance +4, Handy haversack (empty), Headband of alluring charisma +4, Ring of evasion, 262 GP
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TRACKED RESOURCES
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Call Celestial Ally (1/week) (Sp) - 0/1
Divine Symbol +3 (13 minutes) (3/day) (Su) - 0/3
Fear (1/day) - 0/1
Fire Bolt (1d6+6) (1/day) (Sp) - 0/1
Fly (1/day) - 0/1
Hold Person (1/day) - 0/1
Lay on Hands (6d6) (13/day) (Su) - 0/13
Paladin Channel Positive Energy 5d6 (10/day) (DC 22) (Su) - 0/10
Pearl of power (1st level) (1/day) - 0/1
Pearl of power (1st level) (1/day) - 0/1
Pearl of power (3rd level) (1/day) - 0/1
Rod of lordly might - 0/0
Smite Evil (3/day) (Su) - 0/3
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Special Abilities
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Aura of Courage +4 (10' radius) (Su) You are immune to Fear. Allies within aura gain a morale bonus to saves vs Fear.
Aura of Good (Ex) The paladin has an Aura of Good with power equal to her class level.
Aura of Healing (13rds, 30' radius) (Su) Allies are immune to bleed, heal 1 hp per HD/rd, and re-save vs. curse/disease/poison.
Call Celestial Ally (1/week) (Sp) Use planar ally spells as spell-like abilities without material component costs.
Damage Resistance, Fire (20) You have the specified Damage Resistance against Fire attacks.
Detect Evil (At will) (Sp) You can use detect evil at will (as the spell).
Divine Symbol +3 (13 minutes) (3/day) (Su) You can enhance your holy symbol for 1 minute per level one or more times per day.
Fire Bolt (1d6+6) (1/day) (Sp) 30' Ranged touch attack deals 1d6+6 Fire damage.
Immunity to Disease You are immune to diseases.
Immunity to Fear (Ex) You are immune to all fear effects.
Lay on Hands (6d6) (13/day) (Su) You can heal 6d6 damage, 13/day
Magical Knack (Paladin [Hospitaler, Sacred Servant]) +2 CL for a specific class, to a max of your HD.
Mercy (Cursed) (Su) When you use your lay on hands ability, it also removes curses, as per the remove curse spell at a caster level of your Paladin level.
Mercy (Diseased) (Su) When you use your lay on hands ability, it also removes disease, as per the remove disease spell at a caster level of your Paladin level.
Mercy (Fatigued) (Su) When you use your lay on hands ability, it also removes the fatigued condition.
Mercy (Poisoned) (Su) When you use your lay on hands ability, it also neutralizes poisons, as per the neutralize poison spell at a caster level of your Paladin level.
Paladin (Hospitaler, Sacred Servant) Domain (Fire) Granted Powers: You can call forth fire, command creatures of the inferno, and your flesh does not burn.
Paladin Channel Positive Energy 5d6 (10/day) (DC 22) (Su) Positive energy heals the living and harms the undead; negative has the reverse effect.
Power Attack -4/+8 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Quick Channel Channel energy faster by expending more uses
Ring of evasion No damage if you succeed on a Reflex save for half damage.
Rod of lordly might This rod has functions that are spell-like, and it can also be used as a magic weapon of various sorts. It also has several more mundane uses. The rod of lordly might is metal, thicker than other rods, with a flanged ball at one end and six studlike buttons along its length. (Pushing any of the rod's buttons is equivalent to drawing a weapon.) It weighs 10 pounds.
The following spell-like functions of the rod can each be used once per day.
• Hold person upon a touched creature, if the wielder so commands (Will DC 14 negates). The wielder must choose to use this power (a free action) and then succeed on a melee touch attack to activate the power. If the attack fails, the effect is lost.
• Fear upon all enemies viewing it, if the wielder so desires (10-foot maximum range, Will DC 16 partial). Invoking this power is a standard action.
• Deal 2d4 hit points of damage to an opponent on a successful touch attack (Will DC 17 half) and cure the wielder of the same amount of damage. The wielder must choose to use this power before attacking, as with hold person.
The following weapon functions of the rod have no limit on the number of times they can be employed.
• In its normal form, the rod can be used as a +2 light mace.
• When button 1 is pushed, the rod becomes a +1 flaming longsword. A blade springs from the ball, with the ball itself becoming the sword’s hilt. The weapon stretches to an overall length of 4 feet.
• When button 2 is pushed, the rod becomes a +4 battleaxe. A wide blade springs forth at the ball, and the whole lengthens to 4 feet.
• When button 3 is pushed, the rod becomes a +3 shortspear or +3 longspear. The spear blade springs forth, and the handle can be lengthened up to 12 feet (wielder’s choice) for an overall length ranging from 6 feet to 15 feet. At its 15-foot length, the rod is suitable for use as a lance.
The following other functions of the rod also have no limit on the number of times they can be employed.
• Climbing pole/ladder. When button 4 is pushed, a spike that can anchor in stone is extruded from the ball, while the other end sprouts three sharp hooks. The rod lengthens to anywhere between 5 and 50 feet in a single round, stopping when button 4 is pushed again. Horizontal bars 3 inches long fold out from the sides, 1 foot apart, in staggered progression. The rod is firmly held by the spike and hooks and can bear up to 4,000 pounds. The wielder can retract the pole by pushing button 5.
• The ladder function can be used to force open doors. The wielder plants the rod’s base 30 feet or less from the portal to be forced and in line with it, then pushes button 4. The force exerted has a Strength modifier of +12.
• When button 6 is pushed, the rod indicates magnetic north and gives the wielder knowledge of his approximate depth beneath the surface or height above it.
Construction
Requirements: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Rod, bull’s strength, fear, flame blade, hold person, inflict light wounds; Cost 35,000 gp
Selective Channeling Exclude targets from the area of your Channel Energy.
Smite Evil (3/day) (Su) +7 to hit, +13 to damage, +7 deflection bonus to AC when used.
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Crafting rod:
- scroll hold person 150 GP (UMD)
- scroll inflict light wounds 25 GP (UMD)
- scroll fear 700 GP (UMD)
--> paid for with rod (+875)
- CL 19 -> SC 5+19=24
- take 10 -> 34 -> ignore one prerequisite -> flame blade
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This build relies on casting fireball and other spells, refreshing those spells with pearls of power, and providing flexibility and variety for combat with his rod of wonder.
It uses crafting, so it might not be possible for every game with this wealth level. On the other hand, most will probably have level 13 wealth for level 13 charactes, so it will likely work out in the end...
Otherwise there have been many good suggestions. Note that there are good non-somatic arcane spells at every spell level, so even without still spell or arcane armor training you will have something to cast.
