What aspect of the Pathfinder universe do you dislike?


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion

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Shadow Lodge

CorvusMask wrote:
Anyhoo, speaking of Kyonin, weird thing about them is that isn't the only ap featuring them officially partially non canon? Meaning its kinda hard to tell what Kyonin is supposed to be like

What about Second Darkness is non-canon?


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Putting aside clerical specificity, which is kind of a conceit of any game with clerics, I'd say that my biggest problem is with the idea of nationality in Pathfinder, and the way that they keep using 'nation' everywhere. I guess that the age of the societies and the existence of magic has produced a lot of conformity across political areas, but it just seems weird to me that so many people whose world of the mind seems to be largely feudal or early modern seem to have fully developed national consciousness based on the borders on the map. Mind you, there's only so much granularity that your can expect, and if your game demands it, there's no reason why you couldn't add minority groups and regional identities within states.

Naturally, Varisia doesn't really have this problem, which is probably why it's always felt very 'real' to me.


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- Good Elemental Lords are gone.

- Two dragon gods in the draconic pantheon, 39 different dragon species.

- Ihys is dead. I would love to see Asmodeus and Ihys playing games with their worshipers lives.

- Nex and Geb have retired and the high fantasy nations are decadent uninteresting and forgotten nations (I hope I'm wrong).


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I'm not a fan of the bias toward Law over Chaos I (perhaps mistakenly) see much of the setting orient itself toward. Lawful Neutral deities, such as Abadar, are often portrayed as more or less benevolent, if strict, beings whose ultimate goal of perfect order often improves mortal lives or, at the least, helps preserve the multiverse. For example, Abadar, whose church literally forbids its clergy from helping the needy without charging them, promotes Paladin orders and is rarely shown to exhibit the logical negative conclusion of his Lawful philosophy - never does Abadar advocate for obliterating or completely subordinating nature to the whims of planners in order to produce a world of absolute Order, but there is little reservation with regard to portraying CN gods as amoral and often cruel (Calistria, goddess of vengeance, immediately comes to mind).

Compare the portfolios of the Lawful gods to the Chaotic gods, too; in the Lawful corner, you have Irori and Abadar, who, in the case of the former, is a strict but benevolent deity who genuinely seeks to help every individual achieve inner piece, and, in the case of the latter, has a number of positive qualities as described above; among the primary Chaotic gods are Calistria, Gorum, and Besmara: that is, the gods of vengeance, war, and piracy, respectively. Those are hardly parallel alignments, and rarely does a book go out of its way to positively portray Besmara or Gorum, at least not as often as it does the two Lawful gods listed above; indeed, while Irori and Abadar enable champions of Good (Paladins), the Chaotic gods not only choose to produce such beacons of benevolence, but are forbidden to do so. Even more jarring, Chaotic Neutral gods are capable of producing the ludicrously evil Antipaladins as adherents.

Further, when it comes to the representatives of Law and Chaos, there hardly seems to be much equivalency between the Proteans and the Axiomites. Proteans not only seek to completely destroy the world as we know it, but also have a complete disregard for mortal lives and are even said to attack refugees at the edge of Abaddon for no other reason than to show the primacy of Chaos, whatever that means. Axiomites, on the other hand, have very few such truly egregious acts of villainy, and although it can be assumed that many of them are neutral with regard to evils such as slavery, the books rarely care to mention that sort of moral shortsightedness.

Finally, you only need to look at the absolutely grotesque teachings Torag can promote while remaining Good to see how much s&*& a Lawful deity can get away with while the Paizo staff do everything in their power to portray them positively. How is it that the intrinsic evil in Torag's notorious Paladin Code, which explicitly forbids his Paladins from showing mercy to "[their] people's enemies" and can easily be interpreted as commanding genocide, can be overlooked with the justification that his ways are as Lawful as Good? Clearly there is a conflict there, but it is not really addressed. Miliani is certainly a zealous god who commands zeal on the part of her followers, but she never makes any justification for the relentless slaughter of her enemies.

There's a clear double-standard here.


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Tapu wrote:
There's a clear double-standard here.

Is there? Chaos as an alignment represents capriciousness, a disregard for the concerns of others and a general antipathy toward organizations and hierarchies in general. CN in particular is an alignment that exemplifies not giving a damn about anything other than your own interests, although not to the same extreme as a CE character.

That they'd come across as problematic in relation to species' that define themselves around complex societies seems kind of a given. Chaos is, well, chaos.


^Law is, well, Law. Law as an alignment represents rigid rule and a general antipathy towards liberty and free will in general. Lawful Neutral in particular is an alignment that exemplifies not caring about anything other than advancing the interests of the system to which you are beholden.

That they'd come across as problematic in relation to anyone who cares about liberty or free will, as well as to the natural world, seems kind of a given.

That said, Lawful Neutral does seem to have gotten the better side of the ear of the press.


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I'm going to preface my post by reminding people that these are things I do not like. They aren't criticisms of the tropes Paizo has chosen to use for its settings:

* I do not like the horror elements or anything else that makes the setting "dark".

* I do not like that the setting has objective morality.

* I do not like the focus on humans.

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Tapu wrote:
I'm not a fan of the bias toward Law over Chaos I (perhaps mistakenly) see much of the setting orient itself toward. Lawful Neutral deities, such as Abadar, are often portrayed as more or less benevolent, if strict, beings whose ultimate goal of perfect order often improves mortal lives or, at the least, helps preserve the multiverse.

Quite the opposite in Pathfinder Society modules. My character has been to Heaven, Hell, and Axis and hated all three of them. Surprisingly, the denizens of Hell were the friendliest. At least they were willing to help for the right price.


UnArcaneElection wrote:

That said, Lawful Neutral does seem to have gotten the better side of the ear of the press.

Art following life with how often CN has gotten a bad rep in gaming culture due to That Guyism?


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^Well, speaking of that, I know what you mean: the Chaotic Evil players (note I said players, not just PCs) who use Chaotic Neutral as the alignment of choice to achieve acceptability to the group, and then go on to be -- well -- Chaotic Evil.

Dark Archive

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I'd think lot of folks kinda misunderstand what it means to be Lawful.

Like, I'd say Neutral aligned commoner IS normal law abiding citizen.

Lawful Neutral commoner is a person who LIKES following rules and waiting in bureaucratic line for the correct procedure :p

Like best funny portrayal of LG I've seen is in Pathfinder Kingmaker CRPG in tone of town dialogs where group of citizens plan to go after a criminal to apprehend them. The dialog includes stuff like noting they have to capture the criminal in order to court judge them and that they need to fill forms and get badges in order to not be vigilante mob justice xD(what makes it funny is how gung ho they are about the paper work and doing it properly)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Answering the original post ...

I never liked the way that the Elemental Planes were set up, as shells around each other. That smacked too much of mediaeval metaphysics. The Outer Planes also felt a bit odd, partly because certain planar names from D&D's Great Wheel cosmology were re-used for different aligned planes than in the Great Wheel. (Yes, I do understand that Paizo wanted/needed to differentiate themselves WotC's IP.) In general, I just missed the Great Wheel. (While I was a Forgotten Realms fan, I also hated the "Great Tree" cosmology that was shoe-horned into the FR at the start of 3e.)

Elves with long ears. I'm not a fan of that WoW aesthetic. (I do like the Pathfinder elf eyes though - that's something which I'd already home-brewed myself sometime during 2e.)

Humano-centrism.

Deities. [ It amuses me that it seems like no one is ever 100 percent satisfied with the official Golarion pantheons. :) ]

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Bellona wrote:
I never liked the way that the Elemental Planes were set up, as shells around each other. That smacked too much of mediaeval metaphysics.

It makes sense to visualize the transition from one elemental plane to another.

The Material Plane (composed mostly of the vacuum of space) is wrapped in a giant bubble of air. The Plane of Air is the sky for the Plane of Water. At the bottom of the Plane of Water's endless sea is the Plane of Earth. The deeper you go into the Plane of Earth, the warmer it gets until you eventually arrive at the Plane of Fire, which acts as a gigantic sun for all the outer planes.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Not a big fan of much of the occult stuff, and I think Paizo has been going a bit overboard on Lovecraft. A little Lovecraft would be OK but it seems to be almost everywhere now.

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The statistic bonuses for elves and dwarves don't match up with Golarion lore.

Dwarves are a hardy race of intelligent craftsman that are very friendly and make friends easily. However, they have a penalty to Charisma and receive their bonus to Wisdom.

Elves have the unique ability to adapt and harmonize with almost any environment. They're characterized in Golarion as being aloof and using the wisdom gained from their long lifespans to outlive any short term threat. Despite all this, they have a penalty to Constitution (making it difficult to survive in hostile environments) and their bonus is put in Intelligence instead of Wisdom.

I was hoping 2E would fix this but alas...


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Corathonv2 wrote:
I'm one of "those people". The grim fate of all souls, whether good or evil, is a very repulsive feature of the setting.

An afterlife that works like a physical process, at that level, rather than being solely morality-based is a major plus for me in terms of suspension of disbelief. The fundamental underlying principles of the universe being something like entropy rather than something like justice is a scale I find works better.


Archpaladin Zousha wrote:


The Harbingers of Fate are effectively committing the sunk cost and gambler's fallacies.

One minor thing I dislike is not getting a lot more on the Harbingers of Fate, and what they were expecting to happen and trying to bring about. I would have loved a Harbingers of Fate AP but that seems less likely with every passing year.


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Set wrote:


It is interesting how flexible the 'eurocentric' concept is, in that several game settings (not just Golarion) have fantasy equivalents to Egypt (Hamunaptra, Osirion, Mulhurand), Persia, Japan, China, even India, but while very few have a 'fantasy Ireland' or 'fantasy Spain' or 'fantasy Germany'

As a person who is actually from Ireland, lack of a fantasy Ireland in Golarion is something I am relieved by, because the overwhelming majority of fantasy Irelands are excruciatingly bad.


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Set wrote:


Yeah, there's always going to be that with made-up fantasy names. It either sounds great in your head, and then some chucklehead mispronounces it once at the table and it's a running joke for the rest of the campaign.

One minor irritation I have, though it makes sense in terms of what Paizo can plausibly afford, is that their fantasy names appear to go through a rather limited localisation check. If I were still living in Ireland, running a game with characters whose name ends in "fek" or a major ethnicity whose name ends in "s+@!e" would be a non-starter because of those being local pronunciations of common obscenities.

(Huh. This interface doesn't censor "Keleshite" as a whole word.)


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MidsouthGuy wrote:
Rahadoum could work in a setting where religion and Gods are left up to faith, but in Golarion it sticks out like a sore thumb, and one that would be better off amputated at that.

I have a strong desire to run a campaign in which Rahadoum turns out to have been intentionally helped along by agreement between the gods in order to create a location where, for example, outsider representatives of LG and LE deities could meet to negotiate a temporary alliance against some specific CE threat, without having to worry about that upsetting or demoralising any of the faithful of the LG deity in question.


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Cyrad wrote:


The Material Plane (composed mostly of the vacuum of space) is wrapped in a giant bubble of air. The Plane of Air is the sky for the Plane of Water. At the bottom of the Plane of Water's endless sea is the Plane of Earth. The deeper you go into the Plane of Earth, the warmer it gets until you eventually arrive at the Plane of Fire, which acts as a gigantic sun for all the outer planes.

I dislike this, compared to earlier D&D cosmologies, on a practical level because you can only kind of squeeze the equivalent of three of the paraelemental planes in there and there's no room for the quasi-elemental planes at all. (I also miss the outer planes from the Great Wheel that did not make it into Paizo's cosmology.)

I dislike it on an aesthetic level because it reduces most planar travel to essentially extremely long-distance teleporting. I far prefer thinking of Shadow and Faerie as adjacent to the Material Plane on opposite sides in one extra spatial dimension beyond the Material's three, the Ether adjacent in a second which leads to the Elemental planes, and Astral and the Outer Planes in a third.


Cyrad wrote:
Bellona wrote:
I never liked the way that the Elemental Planes were set up, as shells around each other. That smacked too much of mediaeval metaphysics.

It makes sense to visualize the transition from one elemental plane to another.

The Material Plane (composed mostly of the vacuum of space) is wrapped in a giant bubble of air. The Plane of Air is the sky for the Plane of Water. At the bottom of the Plane of Water's endless sea is the Plane of Earth. The deeper you go into the Plane of Earth, the warmer it gets until you eventually arrive at the Plane of Fire, which acts as a gigantic sun for all the outer planes.

This makes sense and is reasonable, but because I am pedantic I really wish they'd put them either material>fire>air>water>earth or material>earth>water>air>fire.


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Cheliax. It's super boring. It's easily the least interesting place in the whole setting, and everything revolves around it. Varisia is a more fun place to adventure in, Nex is a cooler "evil nation", Osirion has more interesting religious politics—and yet we are trapped with They're Like Rome, But With The Most Boring Satan Worshipers Ever.

When your decadent devil worshipers come across like your stuffy grandparents' church, maybe you should focus on somewhere else?


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Wait, since when is Nex evil? Or at least treated as such by the setting materials.

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Darth Game Master wrote:
Wait, since when is Nex evil? Or at least treated as such by the setting materials.

I don’t know about currently but when the Arclords were in charge they conquered (or tried) Jalmeray and were about as ethical in their experiments as Geb is.


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Bellona wrote:

Answering the original post ...

I never liked the way that the Elemental Planes were set up, as shells around each other. That smacked too much of mediaeval metaphysics. The Outer Planes also felt a bit odd, partly because certain planar names from D&D's Great Wheel cosmology were re-used for different aligned planes than in the Great Wheel. (Yes, I do understand that Paizo wanted/needed to differentiate themselves WotC's IP.) In general, I just missed the Great Wheel. (While I was a Forgotten Realms fan, I also hated the "Great Tree" cosmology that was shoe-horned into the FR at the start of 3e.)

I always treated the "Great Tree" as just an alternative 2D representation of the 4D+ multiverse to the "Great Wheel" representation.


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Nah, I just meant Geb and got 'em mixed up again. I always think "Nex" is the evil one. It just sounds more sinister, doesn't it? It means "deaths" in Latin. Very spooky. Nex should have changed his name. Nex is also a much cooler nation than Cheliax, though. ;D

The Gold Sovereign wrote:
- Nex and Geb have retired and the high fantasy nations are decadent uninteresting and forgotten nations (I hope I'm wrong).

I got sidetracked talking about how cool Geb is, and then the forums ate my post, but, y'know, it is really cool. Arazni is the perfect ruler for an evil nation: A hero who was abandoned or betrayed by every person she tried to help, who was repeatedly humiliated for absolutely senseless reasons, and who has now developed a kind of hateful clarity that you can't help but respect. She resents Iomaedae's easy rise to power while also recognizing that nobody should have to suffer as she did. She struggles against Geb's control every day. She predicted the Whispering Tyrant's return. She's tragic, she's complex, she's both warden and prisoner. She'd fit in perfectly in Ravenloft.

But no please tell me more about the rulers of Cheliax, whatever their names are. Ah, they're tyrants, you say? Very pushy. Super evil. They love all the proper evil stuff—slavery, devils, mm-hm, mm-hm, big fans. Spikes on everything. Red-and-black decorating. Sometimes they hate mint. Oh, this is riveting. I hope half the APs are about this place.

Dark Archive

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Bellona wrote:
Deities. [ It amuses me that it seems like no one is ever 100 percent satisfied with the official Golarion pantheons. :) ]

I imagine that applies to any setting with multiple gods, Greyhawk, the Realms, Sharn, etc. Some I like, some I don't. And that's probably for the best, as it means that there will be some for me, and some that appeal to the vast majority of gamers who aren't me. :)

I'm with you on the humano-centrism tho. I'd like the world, at most, to be 50% human-dominated, not the current setup, which seems more like 90+% dominated (with the first Inner Sea maps not even having a visible non-human nation depicted, and only later ones having Kyonin and the Five Kingdoms sort of thrown on, even if neither seems to be a 'nation' in the sense of somewhere like Cheliax or Taldor or Qadira).

Still, that's the sort of thing that's easily dealt with by the GM, as it's mostly flavor, and the work of no time at all to say, "The majority population of the Lands of the Linnorm Kings are Ulfen dwarves, including all of the famous Linnorm Kings, and Varisians are a halfling ethnicity, not a human one. Elven 'old blood' is considered a sign of being upper-class in Taldor, and a few hundred jaded full blood elves shack up with aristocracy every generation to 'class up the joint,' although only some of the aristocracy are 'old-blooded' enough to classify as half-elves, mechanically."


Set wrote:


I'd like the world, at most, to be 50% human-dominated, not the current setup, which seems more like 90+% dominated (with the first Inner Sea maps not even having a visible non-human nation depicted, and only later ones having Kyonin and the Five Kingdoms sort of thrown on, even if neither seems to be a 'nation' in the sense of somewhere like Cheliax or Taldor or Qadira).

Maybe forming nations and caring about borders and lines on maps is a specifically human oddity that all the other sentient races of Golarion look at funny and go along with only a bit and reluctantly.

I'm sure I remember something to the effect that dragons, for example, see the world as divided up into their individual territories and generally could not care less about how the talking monkeys organise.


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Counting the regions on the new map, plus the Gravelands, and leaving out non-independent mountain ranges, forests, storms etc, 39 out of 48 are human dominated, so closer to 80%, though 1e as of the Inner Sea World Guide had a higher percentage without Oprak, the Gravelands, and the Isle of Terror. I agree that the setting could be less humanocentric, though.

Shadow Lodge

I frankly don't see the point of the non-human ancestries, inasmuch as they're basically humans with prominent stereotypes, exactly the same as the various human peoples.


Kobold Cleaver wrote:
But no please tell me more about the rulers of Cheliax, whatever their names are. Ah, they're tyrants, you say? Very pushy. Super evil. They love all the proper evil stuff—slavery, devils, mm-hm, mm-hm, big fans. Spikes on everything. Red-and-black decorating. Sometimes they hate mint. Oh, this is riveting. I hope half the APs are about this place.

Honestly, I don't think they should set an AP, module, PFS scenario, novel, short story, or blog post in Cheliax proper until they are willing to bite the bullet and restart the Chellish civil war. I figure severe societal collapse will do wonders for that place.

Shadow Lodge

PossibleCabbage wrote:
Kobold Cleaver wrote:
But no please tell me more about the rulers of Cheliax, whatever their names are. Ah, they're tyrants, you say? Very pushy. Super evil. They love all the proper evil stuff—slavery, devils, mm-hm, mm-hm, big fans. Spikes on everything. Red-and-black decorating. Sometimes they hate mint. Oh, this is riveting. I hope half the APs are about this place.
Honestly, I don't think they should set an AP, module, PFS scenario, novel, short story, or blog post in Cheliax proper until they are willing to bite the bullet and restart the Chellish civil war. I figure severe societal collapse will do wonders for that place.

I'd rather they didn't, if only because they'd be guaranteed to screw it up.


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zimmerwald1915 wrote:
I frankly don't see the point of the non-human ancestries, inasmuch as they're basically humans with prominent stereotypes, exactly the same as the various human peoples.

I feel like better fleshing out the other ancestries would be a much better solution than just dumping them. Having humans and several "humans, but this" races is better than 100% human, which I feel is boring in a D&D style world.


zimmerwald1915 wrote:
I'd rather they didn't, if only because they'd be guaranteed to screw it up.

I figure once they fix Galt (by killing the conqueror worm, or whatever, at the end of an AP) there is an opening for another eternal revolution/civil war.

Like the Galtan reign of terror has been going for 80 years now, so if the new Chelish civil war goes that long we won't have to see the end of it.

Shadow Lodge

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PossibleCabbage wrote:
fix Galt

Speaking of things we dislike, this framing. Galt is in a good, or at least promising, situation.


PossibleCabbage wrote:

Like the Galtan reign of terror has been going for 80 years now, so if the new Chelish civil war goes that long we won't have to see the end of it.

52 years actually, but I like the idea.

Dark Archive

Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Nah, I just meant Geb and got 'em mixed up again. I always think "Nex" is the evil one. It just sounds more sinister, doesn't it? It means "deaths" in Latin. Very spooky. Nex should have changed his name. Nex is also a much cooler nation than Cheliax, though. ;D

I think you are thinking of "Nyx"


zimmerwald1915 wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
fix Galt
Speaking of things we dislike, this framing. Galt is in a good, or at least promising, situation.

Hot take but it earned a Favorite from me. Galt is in a better situation than most of the nations in this setting.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
PossibleCabbage wrote:
zimmerwald1915 wrote:
I'd rather they didn't, if only because they'd be guaranteed to screw it up.

I figure once they fix Galt (by killing the conqueror worm, or whatever, at the end of an AP) there is an opening for another eternal revolution/civil war.

Like the Galtan reign of terror has been going for 80 years now, so if the new Chelish civil war goes that long we won't have to see the end of it.

I can even see an easy way to get it started. In recent history, every royal succession has involved the new monarch assassinating the prior monarch and establishing himself or herself in power before anyone else can raise a challenge for the throne. All we need is to have more than one person involved in killing the prior monarch, with no single successor able to come out on top afterwards.

Faced with multiple claimants, some Chelish nobles take one side or another, while others reject House Thrune completely (as this disputed succession undermines their main claim to power after the prior Chelish civil war).


Cyrad wrote:

The statistic bonuses for elves and dwarves don't match up with Golarion lore.

Dwarves are a hardy race of intelligent craftsman that are very friendly and make friends easily. However, they have a penalty to Charisma and receive their bonus to Wisdom.

Elves have the unique ability to adapt and harmonize with almost any environment. They're characterized in Golarion as being aloof and using the wisdom gained from their long lifespans to outlive any short term threat. Despite all this, they have a penalty to Constitution (making it difficult to survive in hostile environments) and their bonus is put in Intelligence instead of Wisdom.

I was hoping 2E would fix this but alas...

For Dwarves, I read "they have a strong sense of friendship and justice" as meaning that they value friendship once they form it, not that they form it easily. So the penalty to Charisma doesn't clash with this too much.

For Elves, the clash is much more just like you say. I had the idea to fix this by replacing the penalty to Constitution with a penalty to hit points, so they fit the description of being mechanically not the sturdiest, but have reasonable resistance to life-shortening infections and poisons.

Kobold Cleaver wrote:

Cheliax. It's super boring. {. . .}

When your decadent devil worshipers come across like your stuffy grandparents' church, maybe you should focus on somewhere else?

Some people's grantparents' churches can be pretty scary . . . .

David knott 242 wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:

{. . .}

Like the Galtan reign of terror has been going for 80 years now, so if the new Chelish civil war goes that long we won't have to see the end of it.

I can even see an easy way to get it started. In recent history, every royal succession has involved the new monarch assassinating the prior monarch and establishing himself or herself in power before anyone else can raise a challenge for the throne. All we need is to have more than one person involved in killing the prior monarch, with no single successor able to come out on top afterwards.

Faced with multiple claimants, some Chelish nobles take one side or another, while others reject House Thrune completely (as this disputed succession undermines their main claim to power after the prior Chelish civil war).

The assassination attempt wouldn't even have to be successful in accomplishing its stated purpose to succeed in starting a new Chelish Civil War.

Also, the most recent Tales of Lost Omens tale hints that although no Chelish Civil War is currently in progress, forces are moving under the scenes to start another one.


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Kobold Cleaver wrote:
zimmerwald1915 wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
fix Galt
Speaking of things we dislike, this framing. Galt is in a good, or at least promising, situation.
Hot take but it earned a Favorite from me. Galt is in a better situation than most of the nations in this setting.

Nonetheless executing your own citizens with frightening frequency, and the fact that "the Guillotines take your soul" thing is super creepy points to something nefarious behind the scenes. One could have Galt with a lot less bloodshed.

I mean, the French Revolution's reign of terror lasted about 13 months. Galt keeping this up for decades isn't healthy. I find if hard to believe anyone is trying to undermine the Galtan republic from within, and you're running out of people from the pre-revolutionary days who have it coming.


From the description of the Gray Gardener prestige class, running out of people from the pre-revolutionary days who have it coming is no problem.

Of course, given what a dump Galt is, it is easy to believe that someone would want to undermine it from within . . . or from underneath.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
PossibleCabbage wrote:

I figure once they fix Galt (by killing the conqueror worm, or whatever, at the end of an AP) there is an opening for another eternal revolution/civil war.

Like the Galtan reign of terror has been going for 80 years now, so if the new Chelish civil war goes that long we won't have to see the end of it.

Conqueror Worm? Where is this mentioned in connection with Galt?


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Cyrad wrote:

The statistic bonuses for elves and dwarves don't match up with Golarion lore.

Dwarves are a hardy race of intelligent craftsman that are very friendly and make friends easily. However, they have a penalty to Charisma and receive their bonus to Wisdom.

Elves have the unique ability to adapt and harmonize with almost any environment. They're characterized in Golarion as being aloof and using the wisdom gained from their long lifespans to outlive any short term threat. Despite all this, they have a penalty to Constitution (making it difficult to survive in hostile environments) and their bonus is put in Intelligence instead of Wisdom.

I was hoping 2E would fix this but alas...

UnArcaneElection wrote:

For Dwarves, I read "they have a strong sense of friendship and justice" as meaning that they value friendship once they form it, not that they form it easily. So the penalty to Charisma doesn't clash with this too much.

For Elves, the clash is much more just like you say. I had the idea to fix this by replacing the penalty to Constitution with a penalty to hit points, so they fit the description of being mechanically not the sturdiest, but have reasonable resistance to life-shortening infections and poisons.

My own solution was to offer the choice of two different ability score racial adjustments for most non-human PC races.

For example, an elf would still have Dex +2 and Int +2, but the choice of either Con -2 or Wis -2 (to differentiate them out of game I called them the frail elves and the impulsive elves).

This option made life a lot easier for elves with martial classes in particular. The elven population in general I treated as having the impulsive stats, reserving the frail stats mainly for those elves who had a closer contact with the divine in some form, i.e., Wis-based classes such as Cleric and Druid. This was before Inquisitors and Warpriests became a thing; those class members have to make the choice between being decent spellcasters/frail in body or decent physical stats/a bit behind in the spellcasting power (not the greatest disaster ever for a 6/9 spellcasting class as opposed to a 9/9 spellcasting class).


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@Bellona

Re_the Conqueror Worm in Galt:

It's more of a VERY popular fan-theory that has received some sly "Hmm... Now that would explain some things, ne?" kinda comments from some of the developers. (Enough to solidify as almost canon among many... <edit> Not sure it has been confirmed as such, though.)

(This wouldn't rule out the all-but-confirmed daemon involvement... <edit> It's possible that the daemon involvement angle may've already been confirmed somewhere, at least with regards to the Final Blades...)

A Galt AP would be a great way to confirm this!
;)

Carry on,

--C.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
PossibleCabbage wrote:
Kobold Cleaver wrote:
zimmerwald1915 wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
fix Galt
Speaking of things we dislike, this framing. Galt is in a good, or at least promising, situation.
Hot take but it earned a Favorite from me. Galt is in a better situation than most of the nations in this setting.

Nonetheless executing your own citizens with frightening frequency, and the fact that "the Guillotines take your soul" thing is super creepy points to something nefarious behind the scenes. One could have Galt with a lot less bloodshed.

I mean, the French Revolution's reign of terror lasted about 13 months. Galt keeping this up for decades isn't healthy. I find if hard to believe anyone is trying to undermine the Galtan republic from within, and you're running out of people from the pre-revolutionary days who have it coming.

From the Plague of Shadows novel and its web fiction we know that the Gray Gardeners are necromancers who are perfectly happy to have a bunch of soulless corpses around.

Bellona wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:

I figure once they fix Galt (by killing the conqueror worm, or whatever, at the end of an AP) there is an opening for another eternal revolution/civil war.

Like the Galtan reign of terror has been going for 80 years now, so if the new Chelish civil war goes that long we won't have to see the end of it.

Conqueror Worm? Where is this mentioned in connection with Galt?

Its Bestiary 6 entry (6 wasn't world neutral like the previous Bestiaries), it was brought up and the Developers were teasingly coy about it :3

Edit: ninjaed by Psiphyre :3


*Asmodeus. Preety weirdly Earth culture. Then again, we have Baba Yaga, Rasputin and a bunch of Earth-myth creatures. Oh well.

* The Gap.

* Pharasma’s hatred on undead. Chill, P!

* Osirionot-Egypt. Except it is. And Galt. The French Rev just ain’t that diverting, Les Mis notwithstanding.

* Art of vegepygmies. Wooden surfer doods with vinelocks? I’m gonna stick with the original art style...

* Orcs. I don’t get any sort of flavor from these guys, then again, I haven’t come across too much Golariona about them.

* The First World. I don’t think I grok it.

* Aboleths and Qlippoths. Oh, and leshies. They all totes go together right? I just don’t see the attraction, or feel for the deep tension of the former too, nor empathise with the fandom for the latter.

That’s just for starters. I could go all day. Instead, I’m going to start a “What aspect of the Pathfinder Universe do you really like....” thread.....


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Yeah, Pharasma seems to have a hate-on for undead because someone got stuck in the line at the Soul Vehicle Line and decided SCREW THIS, I've GOT MORE LIFE TO LIVE and then tried to stop that person from leaving the line.

Imagine someone stuck in the DMV for 100 years. They finally give up and say, I'd rather be living, for crying out loud... I have to go to work, etc. And now the Secretary of State goes "NOPE, YOU MUST STAY IN QUEUE UNTIL YOUR NUMBER IS CALLED".

...seriously, if Pharasma would just *take a chill pill* and realize that eventually those 'living-challenged' are going to be re-incorporated when they are finished off by adventurers/whatnot, it'd be a lot easier to handle.

EDIT: Also, the fact that atheists are either A. Fed to Groetus or B. Left to linger until their soulbodies disintegrate is rather lame. Why can't she *recycle/reuse/reclaim* like EVERY OTHER FREAKING DEITY?


Wei Ji the Learner wrote:
EDIT: Also, the fact that atheists are either A. Fed to Groetus or B. Left to linger until their soulbodies disintegrate is rather lame. Why can't she *recycle/reuse/reclaim* like EVERY OTHER FREAKING DEITY?

I had assumed it was because their souls couldn't be broken down into quintessence due to the atheism. Their souls literally reject the system so hard they cannot be incorporated.

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