Can you use impale while burrowing.


Rules Questions


An earth kineticist can obtain the ability to burrow, gain tremor sense and the impale infusion.

If the impale infusions damage exceeds an objects hit points it can continue through to hit another target.

Can a kineticist attack with impale from beneath the ground?


Tremor sense is imprecise, you still can't target things using only imprecise senses.

I guess you might be legally allowed to make an attack into a square, and have a 50% miss chance against something in that square.

I'd have to look into this further.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Sure. A GM could reasonably require you to roll damage against the ground to ensure that you deal enough damage to bypass its hardness, but unless you're burrowing through solid stone or something then you're probably fine. Claxon is correct, though--miss chance still applies unless you have some way of seeing your target through the ground.


blahpers wrote:
Sure. A GM could reasonably require you to roll damage against the ground to ensure that you deal enough damage to bypass its hardness, but unless you're burrowing through solid stone or something then you're probably fine. Claxon is correct, though--miss chance still applies unless you have some way of seeing your target through the ground.

You also need LoE to the relevant square per cover rules.

Quote:

Total Cover

If you don’t have line of effect to your target (that is, you cannot draw any line from your square to your target’s square without crossing a solid barrier), he is considered to have total cover from you. You can’t make an attack against a target that has total cover.

So they'd have to attack the square they occupy, and thus also be impaled.

So unless they plan on killing themself so the spike can go through and hit the enemy, it's not a good idea.


Claxon wrote:

Tremor sense is imprecise, you still can't target things using only imprecise senses.

I guess you might be legally allowed to make an attack into a square, and have a 50% miss chance against something in that square.

I'd have to look into this further.

The tremor sense ability of kineticists removes any miss chance from concealment or total concealment.


willuwontu wrote:
blahpers wrote:
Sure. A GM could reasonably require you to roll damage against the ground to ensure that you deal enough damage to bypass its hardness, but unless you're burrowing through solid stone or something then you're probably fine. Claxon is correct, though--miss chance still applies unless you have some way of seeing your target through the ground.

You also need LoE to the relevant square per cover rules.

Quote:

Total Cover

If you don’t have line of effect to your target (that is, you cannot draw any line from your square to your target’s square without crossing a solid barrier), he is considered to have total cover from you. You can’t make an attack against a target that has total cover.

So they'd have to attack the square they occupy, and thus also be impaled.

So unless they plan on killing themself so the spike can go through and hit the enemy, it's not a good idea.

None of this is true, you can activate lines in a direction and hit invisible foes, you can also attack the earth, or target squares with invisible creatures but in this case you have a pseudo sight with the tremor sense power.

As long as it does enough damage to pierce through the earth it will continue through and hit the target as normal.


There's no official hardness or hit point of "dirt" or "default ground." Unless you're doing an insane amount of damage you're not going to get through 5ft of stone (900HP, 15hp per inch, 8 hardness). So if there's any stone you're not going to succeed. I would say the fairest thing for nice, soft soil (non clay-based) would be to compare it to cloth or paper, 0 hardness with 2hp per inch. Meaning each 5ft square is going to be at 120hp. The intent of this kineticist ability is to be able to plug an opponent who is hiding behind a *piece* of cover, not 10-30 feet of the ground while you hide underground.

Personally I would rule, since you're an earth kineticist, that you can deal double damage to attempt to pierce through natural earth, meaning you could *potentially* get through 5 ft at higher levels and 10 ft at really high levels. Other than that, as written, no you cannot feasibly do it. I would talk to your GM about it and see what you guys can agree on.

As a general rule, hiding where your enemies have a 0% chance of hitting you while you sit there and kineicist blast them into oblivion is a frowned upon tactic... Flying is easy to deal with... A burrower who never has to leave the underground to deal massive amounts of damage through 10 ft of dirt with total concealment and total cover.... yeah... I don't think so.


CMantle raises a good point.

Even if this is rules legal, as a GM, I wouldn't let it work.

I don't even let my players pull the "I stick my head out and shoot and then pop back in". Each turn they have to either be in the ground or out, or spend actions to move between. So if you somehow had an extra move action, in my game you could move out of the ground, attack, and move back in. But being out of the ground means your available to be attacked. Even if it's just readied action.


Doompatrol wrote:
willuwontu wrote:
Quote:

Total Cover

If you don’t have line of effect to your target (that is, you cannot draw any line from your square to your target’s square without crossing a solid barrier), he is considered to have total cover from you. You can’t make an attack against a target that has total cover.

None of this is true, you can activate lines in a direction and hit invisible foes, you can also attack the earth, or target squares with invisible creatures but in this case you have a pseudo sight with the tremor sense power.

As long as it does enough damage to pierce through the earth it will continue through and hit the target as normal.

Wait, you're saying a direct quote from the core rule book is not true?

You might want to rethink that position.

Tremorsense does not bypass line of effect.

Do not confuse concealment and cover, they are two distinctly different things.


EvilMinion wrote:
Doompatrol wrote:
willuwontu wrote:
Quote:

Total Cover

If you don’t have line of effect to your target (that is, you cannot draw any line from your square to your target’s square without crossing a solid barrier), he is considered to have total cover from you. You can’t make an attack against a target that has total cover.

None of this is true, you can activate lines in a direction and hit invisible foes, you can also attack the earth, or target squares with invisible creatures but in this case you have a pseudo sight with the tremor sense power.

As long as it does enough damage to pierce through the earth it will continue through and hit the target as normal.

Wait, you're saying a direct quote from the core rule book is not true?

You might want to rethink that position.

Tremorsense does not bypass line of effect.

Do not confuse concealment and cover, they are two distinctly different things.

Lets word it differently then if that's your hang up, nothing you said was relevant.

Line effects do not need to target, concealment is ignored and cover is only relevant if the attack cannot pierce it.


Doompatrol wrote:
Claxon wrote:

Tremor sense is imprecise, you still can't target things using only imprecise senses.

I guess you might be legally allowed to make an attack into a square, and have a 50% miss chance against something in that square.

I'd have to look into this further.

The tremor sense ability of kineticists removes any miss chance from concealment or total concealment.

Oooh, I see, the talent does have specific language negating the miss chance. Then that part can be ignored.


Claxon wrote:

CMantle raises a good point.

Even if this is rules legal, as a GM, I wouldn't let it work.

I don't even let my players pull the "I stick my head out and shoot and then pop back in". Each turn they have to either be in the ground or out, or spend actions to move between. So if you somehow had an extra move action, in my game you could move out of the ground, attack, and move back in. But being out of the ground means your available to be attacked. Even if it's just readied action.

He doesn't, I am just asking if it works. I am aware of what can piss of a GM.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder RPG / Rules Questions / Can you use impale while burrowing. All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.