Playing a spellcaster in kingmaker?


Advice


Do you think spell casting classes are enjoyable in a Kingmaker campain?

I wanted to play something like a medium or a draconic Shaman, but after realizing that i woud only cast one 1st lvl spell/day as a full spell casting class, it really put me off...Correct me if i'm wrong but it feels like you are basically an archer in the first levels, and the levels are really long in kingmaker...

Sovereign Court

Presumably, your main spellcasting stat is at least 12, so you should get 1 additional from there.


Firebug wrote:
Presumably, your main spellcasting stat is at least 12, so you should get 1 additional from there.

^^This. Also you have cantrips/orisons/knacks, so you always have some spells (and some 0 level spells are quite useful at low levels).

That said I would pick up a crossbow for your first few levels, you will definitely be more useful. Spell-casters tend to do better with shorter adventuring days, and from my experience Kingmaker has the shortest adventuring days of any game I've played. By level 5 or so you should really start to see casters shine.

(If you're talking about the computer game maybe ignore my advice, I haven't played it)


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Witches could work, you’ve got your spammable hex, two with the right feat.

Or you could got orc or the appropriate draconian bloodline with blood havoc on a Sorceror. And spam ray of frost, acid splash or jolt for 1d3+2.

Silver Crusade

I've played and GMd Kingmaker. My experience is that the usual

Martial << Caster

dynamic is very much in play in Kingmaker. Casters do well.

Seems like OP is concerned about low-level caster weakness. This is easy to overcome and quickly gives way to caster superiority.

A low level caster can have lots of low-level options.

Example of a low level caster with many options:

1st level reach-style evangelist cleric of Erastil
Either Plant(Growth) domain

* Strength-based martial character using reach tactics. No feats required, although Combat Reflexes and Power Attack help you to compete with other martials.
* Full prepared caster
* Inspire Courage just like a Bard. Your team will love you.
* Swift Action Enlarge Person comes online at 1st level. Alternately, if you instead chose the Feather Domain, both Fly spell and your full animal companion are online at 5th level.

This sort of character is definitely effective in Kingmaker. Whether it's fun to play depends upon you, and what sort of game play you enjoy.

Sovereign Court

For a low level medium channeling archemage, pick up a flask of acid and now your acid splash does 1d3+3 damage. As far as a damage caster goes that should be ok. Considering a Crossblooded Sorcerer is going to be doing the same (assuming draconic/orc) and unless they have caster level increases, only 1d6+2 for using a 1st level slot. You would have the same 1d6+2. 2+ is different of course.


Seriously suggest taking blood havoc and not bothering with cross blooded, you’re losing a lot for what you get.

Silver Crusade

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Apart from cantrips and class abilities, all casters at low levels can also cast, at will:

- Crossbow Bolt: ranged attack dealing 1d8 damage, needs crossbow as focus.
- Scare: demoralize enemy.
- Offensive Aid: give ally +2 to one hit against the threatened enemy.
- Defensive Aid: give ally +2 to AC against one hit from the threatened enemy.


Slight spoiler for Kingmaker. Not really spoilery enough to use actual spoiler button.

80% of your encounters are a single encounter. Even the slightly detailed out sections are only 3-4 encounters. That leaves like 10% of the campaign where endurance comes into play. So casters can spam spells and do very well. Just whatever you do, aim to be a total badass by level 16. When you go to take on the BBG of this AP there is no such thing as OP.


Patol wrote:

Do you think spell casting classes are enjoyable in a Kingmaker campain?

I wanted to play something like a medium or a draconic Shaman, but after realizing that i woud only cast one 1st lvl spell/day as a full spell casting class, it really put me off...Correct me if i'm wrong but it feels like you are basically an archer in the first levels, and the levels are really long in kingmaker...

One of the little problems with Pathfinder is the bloat, which does not always make characters more powerful. There are a lot of weak options, and a lot of options that are stronger at higher levels but are weaker at lower levels.

To give one example: the conjurer wizard subclass. The "base" conjurer can use Acid Dart a number of times per day (3 + Int modifier per level) for 1d6 acid damage + 1/2 levels. Obviously useless at higher levels, but a 1st-level wizard with Int 14 gets to dish out these touch attacks 5 times per day. They ignore SR, not really an issue at 1st-level, but they're as powerful as other 1st-level spells. This frees up the conjurer to dish out non-damage control effects like Grease, and defensive spells like Mage Armor, with the regular slots.

And then there's the Teleportation sub-subclass, which replaces Acid Darts with this:

Quote:
Shift (Su): At 1st level, you can teleport to a nearby space as a swift action as if using dimension door. This movement does not provoke an attack of opportunity. You must be able to see the space that you are moving into. You cannot take other creatures with you when you use this ability (except for familiars). You can move 5 feet for every two wizard levels you possess (minimum 5 feet). You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.

The ability to teleport without interruption (no concentration, no components) is very powerful, but not at 1st-level.

The regular conjurer gets this at 8th-level:

Quote:

Dimensional Step (Sp)

At 8th level, you can use this ability to teleport up to 30 feet per wizard level per day as a standard action. This teleportation must be used in 5-foot increments and such movement does not provoke an attack of opportunity. You can bring other willing creatures with you, but you must expend an equal amount of distance for each additional creature brought with you.

It's not quite as powerful (it requires concentration) but otherwise it's very similar, and you get it when you need it. Also, you'd have both abilities as a "teleportationist" which is just silly. So naturally I saw a player take that build. Why would you give up 5 or more spell-like abilities at 1st-level?

The shaman is one of the newer classes, and IIRC it's an oracle/witch hybrid. These hybrid classes are weaker than the progenitor classes. You're going to be a low-level character for a long time. Pick your spirit and hex wisely.

For hexes, I would choose out of these three: Evil Eye (target their AC, so you're effectively getting +2 to hit; note that the effect has a duration beyond 1 round if they fail their save), Silkstring Snare, or Ward (save yourself defensive spells).

For spirits: well, I looked at the Battle Spirit ability. The best abilities seem to replicate hexes (but of course, that means you can choose other hexes) and the key feature basically turns you into a bard. I don't find Inspiring Word (or this equivalent) all that useful before 8th-level.

The heaven spirit gives you Starburn, with damage just slightly weaker than Acid Darts, but it's a save for half damage, instead of attack for possibly no damage. (You also can't keep using it.)

The lore spirit gives you Arcane Enlightenment (among the many hexes), which lets you add sorcerer/wizard spells to your spell list. This is amazingly awesome. Too bad the "main" ability seems so weak.


Exactly. As a Kingmaker DM, I am SO grateful none of my players (druid, cleric, wizard, and fighter) are really optimized. A battlefield control wizard or even a blaster would honestly be quite effective.

If you play Kingmaker straight (which I haven't) the levels can be long, yes, but Kingmaker is an AP that very much benefits from the DM enhancing the world.

TL;DR: never played a medium but if I were playing Kingmaker I think I'd absolutely have a blast with a Shaman, Druid or Cleric of Erastil.


Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:

Witches could work, you’ve got your spammable hex, two with the right feat.

Or you could got orc or the appropriate draconian bloodline with blood havoc on a Sorceror. And spam ray of frost, acid splash or jolt for 1d3+2.

I second the witch suggestion. A human witch with the unique patron option could have 4 hexes at level 1. You could have 5 (though you'd have to take Fey Gifts and the winter patron) if you took the Season Witch archetype but some people will argue that "as a bonus hex" doesn't actually grant a bonus hex because apparently words work differently for them somehow. With so many hexes at level 1 you could contribute effectively without casting a single spell.


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Actually, Kingmaker is quite possibly one of the best APs to play a spellcaster. Even more, I'd say that it's the best AP for a medium, as well.

Why? Two reasons. As others have stated, the pacing of the adventures basically almost always have the PCs with only one encounter per day. Second, there are large chunks of downtime, which really play toward a medium's ability to switch out which spirit they are channeling on a given day; on a related note, there is a lot of travel to "significant" locations relatively close, so it's relatively easy to meet the seance requirements for a given spirit.

Why is the second so important? Because the medium makes one of the absolute best magic item crafters in the game, with the ability to cast just about any 1st-6th level prerequisite spell (arcane or divine) by channeling the proper archmage or hierophant spirit. In a normal campaign, finding a location and the needed downtime is a hassle. In Kingmaker, it's pretty much built in.

Sure, mostly channel a champion spirit (or trickster, if you need to act as the "locks and traps" PC) when adventuring, but you can trick out your PC with all the magic items you can afford to make.


JiaYou wrote:
Exactly. As a Kingmaker DM, I am SO grateful none of my players (druid, cleric, wizard, and fighter) are really optimized. A battlefield control wizard or even a blaster would honestly be quite effective.

Seconded!

And since very often, you'll have pleny of time to prepare and re-prepare, prepared casters are even more powerful than in a dense, hurried campaign.


I certainly don't think Kingmaker is particularly unenjoyable for a spell caster, as others have said their are advantages for them for a lot of the encounters in this AP compared to others.

That said, I don't think the class you pick is the biggest deal for this AP, if you want to enjoy it. A huge key is making a character that wants to be an explorer and build a kingdom.

Most games have the player characters as outsiders and lone wolves, not tied in to the communities they pass through. Kingmaker is the opposite of that, and the better for it I think, but that being part of your character is probably more important than anything else to get the most out of this AP.

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