Bringing heavy armor down to light? can this be done in pathfinder?


Advice


As i am asking, can this be done?
I know how i could of done it in 3.0 and 3.5, but have yet to find a way in pathfinder...


Level 7 fighter basically does this.


or level 3 with mithril heavy armor.


I have a feeling this is an attempt to use evasion in heavy armor.


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If this is about evasion in heavy armor, ranger evasion works with medium armor, so mithral heavy works for that.

If this is for another application, what is it? There may be a different way of achieving the goal.


While it is true i am looking for evasion in heavy armor, 9 lvls of ranger is way to long to wait for it....
But it is for another application. I am looking to build a vigilante with fighter lvls, but want to be able to use hvy armor without all the skill penalties. I am not worried about speed while wearing armor as i will be playing a dwarf, but want to be able to use stealth, acro, disable and such in hvy armor. And might splash some rogue for evasion.


Apart from evasion what you are really after is reducing the ACP then, mithral armor and sash of the war champion to boost your armor training are the first couple bits off the top of my head.


mithral heavy armor is 9k+ to spend and then you need other stuff to get the evasion to work. if you have the cash just get a ring of evasion, it work even in heavy armor.

for lower acp there is the steelbone frame (2 acp less. 6k gp cost), mithral [3 ac less. +9k gp cost) and armor expert trait (1 acp less. cost a combat trait) all together a full plate (-6 acp) is turned into 0 acp.


If your dex is crap, you're going to eat a lot of damage anyway even with Evasion because you keep blowing the reflex saves. Better off not shirking it, in which case MPB probably does the job.


Slim Jim wrote:
If your dex is crap, you're going to eat a lot of damage anyway even with Evasion because you keep blowing the reflex saves. Better off not shirking it, in which case MPB probably does the job.

Just because they are in full plate doesn't mean someone's dex is bad, I had an archer who had a +8 dex mod who wore full plate and did fine.


doomman47 wrote:
Slim Jim wrote:
If your dex is crap, you're going to eat a lot of damage anyway even with Evasion because you keep blowing the reflex saves. Better off not shirking it, in which case MPB probably does the job.
Just because they are in full plate doesn't mean someone's dex is bad, I had an archer who had a +8 dex mod who wore full plate and did fine.

Crunch your numbers versus being in Celestial Armor.


Slim Jim wrote:
doomman47 wrote:
Slim Jim wrote:
If your dex is crap, you're going to eat a lot of damage anyway even with Evasion because you keep blowing the reflex saves. Better off not shirking it, in which case MPB probably does the job.
Just because they are in full plate doesn't mean someone's dex is bad, I had an archer who had a +8 dex mod who wore full plate and did fine.
Crunch your numbers versus being in Celestial Armor.

I have 2 more ac than if I were to wear celestial armor. Since my full plate has a max dex bonus of 10 or 11.


How are you getting the max dex on full plate that high?


Between Fighter armor training, nimble, mithral, and Swift Iron Style, you can get a +10 max Dex with full plate.


SuperJedi224 wrote:
How are you getting the max dex on full plate that high?

Its enchanted plus armor training.


I see alot of helpful ideas to get the acp down, but it also looking like alot of gp.... We are currently 7th lvl with standard WBL. So if i was to come in now at 7th, WBL is only 23,500 gp..

So thats : 9000gp for mithral ( plus armor cost )
4000gp for the sash of the war champion
at least a +1 enhancement, 2-3 feats, a trait to bring down acp.... anything else?


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Well to do good things you need a lot of money.


DeathlessOne wrote:
Between Fighter armor training, nimble, mithral, and Swift Iron Style, you can get a +10 max Dex with full plate.

With a feat, shoehorning yourself into a straight class, and an arguably broken (and PFS-illegal) armor enhancement, you're able to eclipse, at 15th level, a 22400 gp piece of gear than anyone can grab down low enough to actually enjoy for a long while, and which also lets you fly. (Elsewhere, Sash of the War Champion will save you four levels of fighter, but it does not increase the maximum possible dexterity allowance that Armor Training grants, which is capped at +4.)


Slim Jim wrote:
With a feat, shoehorning yourself into a straight class, and an arguably broken (and PFS-illegal) armor enhancement, you're able to eclipse, at 15th level, a 22400 gp piece of gear than anyone can grab down low enough to actually enjoy for a long while, and which also lets you fly. (Elsewhere, Sash of the War Champion will save you four levels of fighter, but it does not increase the maximum possible dexterity allowance that Armor Training grants, which is capped at +4.)

What part of that critique was supposed to be constructive?


Slim Jim wrote:
DeathlessOne wrote:
Between Fighter armor training, nimble, mithral, and Swift Iron Style, you can get a +10 max Dex with full plate.
With a feat, shoehorning yourself into a straight class, and an arguably broken (and PFS-illegal) armor enhancement, you're able to eclipse, at 15th level, a 22400 gp piece of gear than anyone can grab down low enough to actually enjoy for a long while, and which also lets you fly. (Elsewhere, Sash of the War Champion will save you four levels of fighter, but it does not increase the maximum possible dexterity allowance that Armor Training grants, which is capped at +4.)

Why should it matter if an option is illegal in pfs, they are a joke anyways.


DeathlessOne wrote:
Slim Jim wrote:
With a feat, shoehorning yourself into a straight class, and an arguably broken (and PFS-illegal) armor enhancement, you're able to eclipse, at 15th level, a 22400 gp piece of gear than anyone can grab down low enough to actually enjoy for a long while, and which also lets you fly. (Elsewhere, Sash of the War Champion will save you four levels of fighter, but it does not increase the maximum possible dexterity allowance that Armor Training grants, which is capped at +4.)
What part of that critique was supposed to be constructive?
Look, I'm replying to a guy who got up in my grill after I wrote the following:
Slim Jim wrote:
If your dex is crap, you're going to eat a lot of damage anyway even with Evasion because you keep blowing the reflex saves. Better off not shirking it, in which case MPB probably does the job.
Obviously if you're a mostly straight-class, high-level fighter with god-like dexterity (note: the opposite of crap) beyond the capacity of Celestial, then you can make plate work for you (unless you're a fighter archetype that forfeits Armor Training, ...which is a good half of them).
doomman47 wrote:
Why should it matter if an option is illegal in pfs, they are a joke anyways.

And, if you're not in "joke" PFS, then Celestial Plate Armor is even better, with a maximum dexterity bonus +3 better than regular MFP.


But its still full plate isn't it? Plus you can also add nimble to it as well.


Slim Jim wrote:
Look, I'm replying to a guy who got up in my grill after I wrote the following:

My mistake. It appears like you were quoting, and replying, directly to me after I merely stated how it was possible to get max dex from plate up to +10. If your (what I perceived as ire) was directed at someone else, it is really none of my business.


DeathlessOne wrote:
Slim Jim wrote:
Look, I'm replying to a guy who got up in my grill after I wrote the following:
My mistake. It appears like you were quoting, and replying, directly to me after I merely stated how it was possible to get max dex from plate up to +10. If your (what I perceived as ire) was directed at someone else, it is really none of my business.

I read it as such as well given that he full quoted you. Which is why I responded the way I did as I viewed it as an attack against you.


doomman47 wrote:
I read it as such as well given that he full quoted you. Which is why I responded the way I did as I viewed it as an attack against you.

Well, it is irrelevant at this point. My first instinct was to find out why the aggression took place and to call it out. It appears to have been a misunderstanding and the issue has been clarified. Any perceived slight forgotten and let go. Water under the bridge.


Why is nimble "arguably broken" anyway? At best it's +1 AC and +2 touch AC, -1 Flat-Footed AC. I have a hard time seeing how that can break anything.


PossibleCabbage wrote:
Why is nimble "arguably broken" anyway? At best it's +1 AC and +2 touch AC, -1 Flat-Footed AC. I have a hard time seeing how that can break anything.

It's a flat (+2-1) +1 cumulative bonus for 1000gp (not even requiring an enhancement "slot") that stacks with anything and everything, when all other armor enhancements that have to do with raising maximum dexterity allowance are pretty pricey (e.g., mithral heavy armor is +9000gp), saddled with limitations (e.g., must be mostly metal), or require specific classes (such as fighter who doesn't forfeit Armor Training) to really exploit, or a feats with stat requirements and action-economy expenditure (Swift Iron Style).

Dex is already the most powerful martial stat in the game ever since Agile, and open-ending maximum dexterity allowance makes it even stronger by shifting the goalpost of a remnant impediment, dragging the game further into promoting minmax superball builds -- the likes of which should be a style choice rather than simply flat-out better than anything else. Legolas now gets to wear Gimli's armor and be untouchable.

I get the impression that PF2 is basically a confession from Paizo that everything they've released in the last couple years for PF1 was too dope, and resetting the game was the only way to get rid of it all. (Not that that solution makes players or GMs happy, but I digress.)


Slim Jim wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
Why is nimble "arguably broken" anyway? At best it's +1 AC and +2 touch AC, -1 Flat-Footed AC. I have a hard time seeing how that can break anything.
It's a flat (+2-1) +1 cumulative bonus for 1000gp (not even requiring an enhancement "slot") that stacks with anything and everything....

I should also add that Nimble is actually better than AC+1 due to permitting dextrous characters best use of heavier armor than they'd normally be capable of using. For example, a relatively restrained dex 20 build, formerly wearing MBP to capacity, can instead don MFP/Nimble for AC+2/Flatfoot+2/Touch+0/ACP-1 (unless Hellknight MFP, then ACP-0).


So this went from asking for a way to make heavy armor light, in an attempt to play a vigilante with some fighter lvls so i could use heavy armor with skills like acro, stealth and disable device, and maybe splash of rogue for evasion.... all to suit a pic i have of plate wearing dwarf.... in a campaign where skills and roleplaying matter just as much as surviving in combat...

To this.

I only ask here cause im not as good with pathfinder as i was in 3.0-3.5, which i could just use the cloth enhancement on my fullplate, which would give me the protection of fullplate with the stats of padded armor. Also i dont really know how to link pics, i tried in a dif post and was semi succesful in do it then but cant now, or i would have posted the pic with my original post.

Pls, keep it to what i would like, and if thats not possible, just say so


Dwarftr wrote:

So this went from asking for a way to make heavy armor light, in an attempt to play a vigilante with some fighter lvls so i could use heavy armor with skills like acro, stealth and disable device, and maybe splash of rogue for evasion.... all to suit a pic i have of plate wearing dwarf.... in a campaign where skills and roleplaying matter just as much as surviving in combat...

To this.

Yeah... Welcome to the Paizo forums. I don't like it much either, especially when I have questions for off-meta archtypes or ideas and it turns into a "well you could do this instead" competition.

Follow the idea. Hell, it could be as simple as getting a Glamered suit of light armor that looks like plate. And you have the roleplaying benefit of people being flabbergasted at the plated dwarf somehow dodging a fireball entirely unscathed!


Isaac Zephyr wrote:
Yeah... Welcome to the Paizo forums. I don't like it much either, especially when I have questions for off-meta archtypes or ideas and it turns into a "well you could do this instead" competition.

Indeed. When I ask for advice, I want advice that fits within the box I built, not something from far left field. I'm not looking for a rules discussion or arguments over what performs better, or why this (or that) class is trash and you are playing the game wrong (exaggeration... but only just).

Dwarft wrote:
Pls, keep it to what i would like, and if thats not possible, just say so

Outside of the Ranger Evasion ability (and mithral heavy armor, or the like), or getting a Ring of Evasion (which can be argued for or against, as it doesn't specify if its the Rogue Evasion or the Ranger Evasion), I don't know of any other way to make your concept work. Unless you go with Isaac's suggestion of glamored armor to make it look like you are wearing heavy armor.


Dwarftr wrote:

So this went from asking for a way to make heavy armor light, in an attempt to play a vigilante with some fighter lvls so i could use heavy armor with skills like acro, stealth and disable device, and maybe splash of rogue for evasion.... all to suit a pic i have of plate wearing dwarf.... in a campaign where skills and roleplaying matter just as much as surviving in combat...

To this.

I only ask here cause im not as good with pathfinder as i was in 3.0-3.5, which i could just use the cloth enhancement on my fullplate, which would give me the protection of fullplate with the stats of padded armor. Also i dont really know how to link pics, i tried in a dif post and was semi succesful in do it then but cant now, or i would have posted the pic with my original post.

Pls, keep it to what i would like, and if thats not possible, just say so

That may be what you wanted, but that's not what you asked. If you had asked: how do I make a heavily-armored dwarf that can run jump and climb? you would have gotten very different answers.


See it's only too bad you can't wear Mock Armor with regular armor, cause it would be a perfect and cheap workaround.

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