Does agent of the grave increase Mystic theurge spell casting?


Rules Questions

Scarab Sages

I do not want to hear your impression, what you would house rule or what you think about the topic; do you know if there exists rules president's for this question:
Can I select a prestige class to level up your spell casting when you go into a second prestige class?
Specific example is Mystic Theurge into Agent of the Grave.
AOTG text:
Spells per Day/Spells Known
When a new Agent of the Grave level is gained, the character gains new spells as if he had also gained a level in a spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain other benefits a character of that class would have gained, except for additional spells per day, spells known (if he is a spontaneous spellcaster), and an increased effective level of spellcasting. If the character has more than one spellcasting class before becoming an Agent of the Grave he must decide which class he adds the new level to for the purpose of determining spells per day.

"A spell casting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class"
...
Mystic Theurge is a spell casting class
...

1) is there a general rule somewhere that says spells per day has to be a non-prestige class?
2) does the specific text of MT count as different enough that it doesn't sync up?
3) don't tell me what you would do; I already did it. The campaign is over. I want to hear about the academic rules discussion. Thank you


1 person marked this as a favorite.
MrNormal wrote:


...
Mystic Theurge is a spell casting class
...

It isn’t. It’s a class that advances the spellcasting of other classes that are actual spell casting classes.


Xenocrat wrote:
MrNormal wrote:


...
Mystic Theurge is a spell casting class
...
It isn’t. It’s a class that advances the spellcasting of other classes that are actual spell casting classes.

This ^

See these spellcasting prestige classes for the difference:
Prophet of Kalistrade
Red Mantis Assassin


willuwontu wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
MrNormal wrote:


...
Mystic Theurge is a spell casting class
...
It isn’t. It’s a class that advances the spellcasting of other classes that are actual spell casting classes.

This ^

See these spellcasting prestige classes for the difference:
Prophet of Kalistrade
Red Mantis Assassin

I fully agree with you 2 as to the conclusion that you can't take a level of Mystic Theurge and progress it's spellcasting with another prestige class.

But you are not giving any reason why MT is not a spell casting class. All MTs cast spells and get more from the class so it certainly seems a spellcasting class in normal English.

I am not saying you are wrong, but a reference to the rules or a FAQ would be helpful.


Joynt Jezebel wrote:

I fully agree with you 2 as to the conclusion that you can't take a level of Mystic Theurge and progress it's spellcasting with another prestige class.

But you are not giving any reason why MT is not a spell casting class. All MTs cast spells and get more from the class so it certainly seems a spellcasting class in normal English.

I am not saying you are wrong, but a reference to the rules or a FAQ would be helpful.

Let's take a look at the abilities of mystic theurge and wizard and compare them for their language differences.

Wizard wrote:

A wizard casts arcane spells drawn from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. A wizard must choose and prepare his spells ahead of time.

To learn, prepare, or cast a spell, the wizard must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a wizard’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the wizard’s Intelligence modifier.

A wizard can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Wizard. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Intelligence score (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells).

-snip-

Mystic Theurge wrote:
When a new mystic theurge level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in any one arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class and any one divine spellcasting class he belonged to previously. He does not, however, gain other benefits a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that he adds the level of mystic theurge to the level of whatever other arcane spellcasting class and divine spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day, spells known, and caster level accordingly. If a character had more than one arcane spellcasting class or more than one divine spellcasting class before he became a mystic theurge, he must decide to which class he adds each level of mystic theurge for the purpose of determining spells per day.

Mystic theurge adds its levels to the arcane spellcasting class, it itself does not cast spells.


Or if we look at it differently.

Let's take a class that doesn't have spellcasting ability. A fighter or a Rogue.

If a Fighter/Rogue was to take a level in the Prophet of Kalistrade or Red Mantis Assasin prestige Class, he would gain the Ability to Cast Spells as these prestige classes has their own Spellcasting Ability.

Now let's say we have a Fighter/Rogue able to Cast Animate Dead (either as a Spell-like Ability, Racial Trait, Trait, Feat or DM Fiat), who has the Skills required and the proper membership time he could become an Agent of the Grave, but as he gain level in his Prestige Class he would gain no new Spellcasting ability as his base classe has none and Agent of the Grave only improves the base class' Spellcasting


You never have a "mystic theurge caster level."


Joynt Jezebel wrote:
But you are not giving any reason why MT is not a spell casting class. All MTs cast spells and get more from the class so it certainly seems a spellcasting class in normal English.

As usual, the CRB doesn't have a definition for the term, but the easiest definition would certainly be "any class with a 'spells' class feature". All the classes with "stand-alone" spellcasting (all base classes, Prophet of Kalistrade, and Red Mantis Assassin) have a class feature called "spells", MT and other prestige classes don't.


Even if you could increase the Mystic Theuge spell casting this would not increase your spell casting in the original classes. Spells per day is a class feature of the Mystic Theurge and unless this class feature is being advanced they do not gain spells known in both classes. Putting your increased caster level to Mystic Theurge will result in no advancement in caster level for either of the original classes.

If you look at the list of class features, the actual class feature for a spell caster is spells. In each case there is a table called spells per day which is referenced by the class feature. But that fact of the matter is the class feature is spells. Prestige classes that increase the caster level do have a class feature called spells per day which details what is advanced. In the case of the Mystic Theurge it advances the spells of two classes.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder RPG / Rules Questions / Does agent of the grave increase Mystic theurge spell casting? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.