Is this a legal build of Enora, despite not finishing 0-6?


Pathfinder Society Adventure Card Guild


I have Wrath of the Righteous, Ultimate Magic, and Occult Adventures 1.

Ultimate Magic has the Enora card with the Arcanist trait; I trade the card from the Ultimate Magic out for the Enora character card from Wrath of the Righteous.

Then I combine Ultimate Magic with Occult Adventures 1. Is this a legal build of Enora?

BONUS POINTS: If I decide to go Occularium Scholar, what would be a good ratio of books to non-book items?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps Subscriber

Yes. That’s legal. I don’t have enough experience with Enora to answer your other question.

Silver Crusade ** RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16 aka cartmanbeck

Definitely a good combo. Spells like Mind Probe, Deathgrip, Thought Shield, Hypercognition and Safety Bubble complement the fantastic spells in Ultimate Magic. I like the Tome of Origami Animals, Olivaro Opuscules and Lamp of Fiery Visions for her, all of which will help her get a lot of explores, and I could see this version of Enora being a really decent solo option. Kinda makes me want to try her out myself! :-D


Hi Tyler,

I was thinking of going Occularium Scholar with Enora, but are there better subclasses to take Enora, you think? My big concern is recharging spells (Occult spells are much harder for non-psychics to recharge) from the Occult deck and getting a 1d4+2 would be a big help.

Also, what would be a good starting deck for Skulls and Shackles with that setup? I completed 1-1 for Wrath of the Righteous literally 2 years ago and I've almost completely lost track of the metadeck. I have a few deck upgrades, mainly a couple of Spell 1s, Item 1s, and Blessing 1s. A couple of non-basics for Spells and Blessings. Nothing for allies, weapons, or armor.

Silver Crusade ** RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16 aka cartmanbeck

Gelarshie wrote:

Hi Tyler,

I was thinking of going Occularium Scholar with Enora, but are there better subclasses to take Enora, you think? My big concern is recharging spells (Occult spells are much harder for non-psychics to recharge) from the Occult deck and getting a 1d4+2 would be a big help.

Also, what would be a good starting deck for Skulls and Shackles with that setup? I completed 1-1 for Wrath of the Righteous literally 2 years ago and I've almost completely lost track of the metadeck. I have a few deck upgrades, mainly a couple of Spell 1s, Item 1s, and Blessing 1s. A couple of non-basics for Spells and Blessings. Nothing for allies, weapons, or armor.

I would highly recommend you consider playing through Season of Tapestry's Tides (if you have access to the PDFs) instead of Season of the Shackles, because the rewards are a million percent better and it's just generally more fun.

If you've already got upgrades, then your deck is set for now, you won't be able to just rebuild before starting S&S. I'll have to look at my decks again for more specific suggestions, though.


I heard there was a way to get Honaire into your deck with the PACG so long as you were of high enough tier and used Occult Heroes 1. Surprisingly, I don't know if that will be all that helpful for Enora (except for the refresh) but that would be baller if you could.


In PFSACG (Organized Play), there's nothing in the rules stopping you from taking Honaire like any other Deck B Ally card (if you're using Occult Adventures 1). If you're playing a home game, there's nothing stopping you from replacing an empty ally slot with him as long as you are in Adventure 3 or later, like any other Deck B Loot card.


Going back to some of the questions raised in this thread:

Why is Mind Probe and Thought Shield so good? I can see why Thought Shield would be good, but I'm playing Enora and unless a lot of untyped damage shows up, I don't see what'd be better than just using her card.

What's the best subclass for Enora? It seems to me that the Enora from Wrath of the Righteous is best simply because she uses a d12 for Arcana and she already has a pretty low bonus.

Why is Lamp of Fiery Visions so good? Again, especially compared with Enora. She gets a version of that power anyway -- it seems more prudent to have something that would help her recharge cards.

Is there a card/loot that will add extra spells to your hand like the Book of Origami Animals?

Is there a card that will help you easily un-bury cards that are buried?

Silver Crusade ** RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16 aka cartmanbeck

Mind Probe is just a generally fantastic spell if you're playing with other characters who are good at acquiring things but not necessarily using them. This spell lets you grab a spell that someone else might not be able to make much use of without having to be at the same location.

Thought Shield is great because it works on ANY damage type to not just yourself, but anyone at your location, and it's potentially by up to 4. Admittedly it's stronger for a caster that has Perception like Estra or Meligaster, but it's still a VERY solid spell.

Lamp of Fiery Visions is a forever-examine... you never need to have Augury in your deck again, because once you display the Lamp, you can examine two cards of your location deck over and over until it's closed. I think that's a very nice effect.

All that said, I'll admit I looked at the cards in OA1 with more of a general "these cards are good" as opposed to specifically looking at things that synergize with Wrath Enora.

I know there is a loot card that works like the Book of Origami Animals but for spells, but I think it's a Rise of the Runelords loot so you're not likely to get access to it across boxes.

Un-burying cards is not an easy thing to achieve. I can't think of any boon that just lets you unbury cards... there are specific characters who are good at this, but in general once you bury stuff, it's buried for the scenario.

*

Gelarshie wrote:
Why is ... Thought Shield so good?

It (optionally) resets your hand as a side effect, letting you draw cards in the middle of any turn where you can find an excuse to play it. That's pretty big as long as you have excuses.

Tyler Beck wrote:
Lamp of Fiery Visions is a forever-examine... you never need to have Augury in your deck again, because once you display the Lamp, you can examine two cards of your location deck over and over until it's closed. I think that's a very nice effect.

The Lamp says you "recharge this card" to examine, making it a delayed examine once at any location (unless I'm missing something). Examine anywhere as an Item isn't a bad addition, but it's no Scrying or Augury and those aren't AD5.

Silver Crusade ** RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16 aka cartmanbeck

Parody wrote:
Gelarshie wrote:
Why is ... Thought Shield so good?

It (optionally) resets your hand as a side effect, letting you draw cards in the middle of any turn where you can find an excuse to play it. That's pretty big as long as you have excuses.

Tyler Beck wrote:
Lamp of Fiery Visions is a forever-examine... you never need to have Augury in your deck again, because once you display the Lamp, you can examine two cards of your location deck over and over until it's closed. I think that's a very nice effect.
The Lamp says you "recharge this card" to examine, making it a delayed examine once at any location (unless I'm missing something). Examine anywhere as an Item isn't a bad addition, but it's no Scrying or Augury and those aren't AD5.

I thought it was "recharge A card" while displayed? Maybe I misread it.


I'm not a big fan of Lamp of Fiery Visions (and you do recharge the Lamp itself - not a card in your hand - to use it, making it just a very, very, very weak "Scrying" effect... but one you can display until you want it laterand will automatically recharge).

I am a huge fan of Thought Shield, though... but that's a very playstyle-dependant card. It allows you to draw up to your hand size mid-turn, and "drawing cards" is usually how you break the game, if you so choose to try to make infinite combos. "Resetting your hand" is very similar to saying "Take an extra turn", because fundamentally your hand size is the only meaningful limit of what you can or cannot do in a turn.

I've linked before how to break the game with a few characters before on this forum, but, for example I'm literally in the middle of an infinite move-and-exploration loop in an official PFSACG play-by-post. So I'm always going to be a strong advocate for anything that lets you 'reset your hand'.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Yewstance wrote:

I'm not a big fan of Lamp of Fiery Visions (and you do recharge the Lamp itself - not a card in your hand - to use it, making it just a very, very, very weak "Scrying" effect... but one you can display until you want it laterand will automatically recharge).

I am a huge fan of Thought Shield, though... but that's a very playstyle-dependant card. It allows you to draw up to your hand size mid-turn, and "drawing cards" is usually how you break the game, if you so choose to try to make infinite combos. "Resetting your hand" is very similar to saying "Take an extra turn", because fundamentally your hand size is the only meaningful limit of what you can or cannot do in a turn.

I've linked before how to break the game with a few characters before on this forum, but, for example I'm literally in the middle of an infinite move-and-exploration loop in an official PFSACG play-by-post. So I'm always going to be a strong advocate for anything that lets you 'reset your hand'.

Wow! That is a nuts turn. Amazing


Yewstance wrote:

I'm not a big fan of Lamp of Fiery Visions (and you do recharge the Lamp itself - not a card in your hand - to use it, making it just a very, very, very weak "Scrying" effect... but one you can display until you want it laterand will automatically recharge).

I am a huge fan of Thought Shield, though... but that's a very playstyle-dependant card. It allows you to draw up to your hand size mid-turn, and "drawing cards" is usually how you break the game, if you so choose to try to make infinite combos. "Resetting your hand" is very similar to saying "Take an extra turn", because fundamentally your hand size is the only meaningful limit of what you can or cannot do in a turn.

I've linked before how to break the game with a few characters before on this forum, but, for example I'm literally in the middle of an infinite move-and-exploration loop in an official PFSACG play-by-post. So I'm always going to be a strong advocate for anything that lets you 'reset your hand'.

So out of Ultimate Magic and the Occult Heroes Character Deck 1, what Allies / Spells / Items / etc. do you recommend at level 3 or below? Or if there's a REALLY good level 4 you just have to recommend, which are those?

Finally, while Enora is lucky enough that I don't have to put Armors or Weapons in my deck, are there any Armors/Weapons in UM/OHCD1 that would make it worth putting one or two card feats?

Also: While I have most of my advances on Enora right now, I'm not so high level as not to be able to try out other decks. MM's Ezren in particular intrigues me with his 'discard ANY spell to explore' feature, but the Wizard Class Deck is really bad and I'd have to choose betwen going OHCD1 and UM.

Venture-Agent, Online—ACG aka redeux

Gelarshie wrote:
So out of Ultimate Magic and the Occult Heroes Character Deck 1, what Allies / Spells / Items / etc. do you recommend at level 3 or below? Or if there's a REALLY good level 4 you just have to recommend, which are those?

Spells - Fire Snake is almost mandatory since it lets you replace your noncombat check with your best skill. Fly is a really good spell 2 that is a keeper all the way through tier 6 IMO though can be replaced with an item (see below). Create Mindscape can be really good too, especially if you have a healer in the group who has trouble making the recharge checks on Cure. Twisted Space is noteworthy but can also be replaced by an item with this specific deck combination. Locate Object is also a really good card.

Items - Mask of the Mesmerists is pretty good, almost preferable over twisted space since it isn't quite an "evasion" and it would let you delay fighting the villain until you can corner them. Wand of Flying is really good. I swap out Fly for Wand of Flying since it effectively gives me +1 spell card feat. Wand of Detect Magic is also good because it has a very low recharge check that makes it a pretty reliable way to examine and potentially encounter a card.

I'm sure I'm missing some cards, these are from memory

Gelarshie wrote:
Finally, while Enora is lucky enough that I don't have to put Armors or Weapons in my deck, are there any Armors/Weapons in UM/OHCD1 that would make it worth putting one or two card feats?

Ultimate Magic has an Armor 6 that prevents you from dying which would make good use of an armor card feat. I don't recall any weapons or other armors that really took my fancy

Gelarshie wrote:
Also: While I have most of my advances on Enora right now, I'm not so high level as not to be able to try out other decks. MM's Ezren in particular intrigues me with his 'discard ANY spell to explore' feature, but the Wizard Class Deck is really bad and I'd have to choose betwen going OHCD1 and UM.

MM Ezren can be played with Wizard class deck, Tales CD, or Hells VEngeance 2 deck. The post Yewstance pointed to is using Hell's Vengeance 2 deck, basically an evil Ezren. There is a really good staff in the HV2 deck that can be used for combat checks that makes it a really good deck for spellcasters.

See this blog post if you need help remembering which characters can be played with what decks


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Yeah, I can make a full post analysing Wizard Class Deck vs Pathfinder Tales vs Hell's Vengeance for MM Ezren, if anyone's sufficiently interested.

The really short of it (for HV2) is as follows...

  • Very few of the Hell's Vengeance 2 cards are easily usable/playable by MM Ezren in comparison to Ultimate Magic, so about 75% of your boons (at least) will end up being UM boons throughout the adventure path.

  • However, some of your best boons will be the small number of top-value HV2 cards, such as Glamour (a staple in any tier, in any deck, as long as you have at least a 4 player party), Hungering Staff (a staple even in my AD6 deck), Steal Soul, Advocate's Armor, Canopic Conversion and Ukobach. Amusingly, 2 of the cards I just listed can be gained in Tier 1, yet I happily keep them in my Tier 6 deck where they overperform. (Ukobach is one of the greatest allies printed, and it's basic).

  • You can also make a monster-focused Ezren build with HV2 boons, but at that point I'd recommend just playing Darago or Nyctessa. And I wouldn't recommend that either because I think that build is broken even by my standards (and I regularly go semi-infinite, though that's by exploiting banes that let me reset my hand), because Robe of Bones and Animate Dead are both way, way, way too good.


  • Quote:
    And I wouldn't recommend that either because I think that build is broken even by my standards (and I regularly go semi-infinite, though that's by exploiting banes that let me reset my hand), because Robe of Bones and Animate Dead are both way, way, way too good.

    Am I missing something here about the brokenness of Robe of Bones / Animate Dead specifically with those two? Robe of Bones seems like it would be great for anyone with a discard engine -- for example, MM Ezren with a Robe of Bones, a Spell, and Monster Cards.

    Darago and Nyctessa get to do things with Monster cards than just use them for fuel, but except for Soul Warden Darago getting to burn monster cards for additional draws (which is admittedly VERY good, but brokenly good? Eh.) I'm not seeing the brokenness, especially with Nyctessa.

    Venture-Agent, Online—ACG aka redeux

    Gelarshie wrote:
    Quote:
    And I wouldn't recommend that either because I think that build is broken even by my standards (and I regularly go semi-infinite, though that's by exploiting banes that let me reset my hand), because Robe of Bones and Animate Dead are both way, way, way too good.

    Am I missing something here about the brokenness of Robe of Bones / Animate Dead specifically with those two? Robe of Bones seems like it would be great for anyone with a discard engine -- for example, MM Ezren with a Robe of Bones, a Spell, and Monster Cards.

    Darago and Nyctessa get to do things with Monster cards than just use them for fuel, but except for Soul Warden Darago getting to burn monster cards for additional draws (which is admittedly VERY good, but brokenly good? Eh.) I'm not seeing the brokenness, especially with Nyctessa.

    Relevant thread


    Yeah. When I played as Nyctessa, even after intentionally 'nerfing' Animate Dead, Robe of Bones alone pushes an already-strong post-role character to a pretty incredible level. Every monster she kills allows her to freely re-use a spell yet again - to combine with spells for combat, or explorations, or quasi-explorations, that's an incredible amount of spells and explorations you can churn through in a turn, on a character that is also constantly self-healing and has one of the larger potential hand sizes in the entire game.

    And basically can't die.

    As long as you can consistently draw monsters (which Nyctessa absolutely can), turning each monster into another copy of the spell of your choice (special mention to Channel the Gift, where re-using that can let you draw every spell in your deck, and give the same to anyone at your location) is far beyond the power level I'd expect from a single boon.

    Animate Dead, meanwhile, creates an infinite-combo trivially with Robe of Bones, as linked above ('Discard' Animate Dead to draw 1-or-more monsters, banish a monster instead with Robe of Bones. 'Discard' Animate Dead again to draw 1-or-more monsters, banish a monster instead with Robe of Bones; repeat until you've almost emptied the entire box of monsters; all of which are in your hand).

    And as you spend those monsters, you can redraw them, so it literally allows you to infinitely re-use any and every spell in your hand, as well as having an 80 or so card hand size.

    Even when you 'nerf' Animate Dead so it's displayed until end-of-turn (much like any other spell that gets you 2 or more cards for their own use, like Restoration), it's still an incredible value proposition alongside Robe of Bones, where it lets you double or triple or quadruple cast other spells in your hand with Robe of Bones' effect.

    (Note that there are spells to fulfill basically every function in the game, including effectively granting explorations; so the Robe of Bones power lies in the boons you use it with, irrelevant of your actual character. Though MM Ezren certainly makes use of it potently if you're actually playing with the Animate Dead + Robe of Bones infinite combo without self-nerfing it, which I recommend. Nyctessa generally has way more monsters in hand if you're not exploiting the infinite combo, after all.)


    Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
    Yewstance wrote:
    Yeah, I can make a full post analysing Wizard Class Deck vs Pathfinder Tales vs Hell's Vengeance for MM Ezren, if anyone's sufficiently interested

    Would love to see a write up of this!


    Same.


    Give me a couple of days, I'll work something out and post a link to it here when I'm done. :)


    Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
    Yewstance wrote:
    Give me a couple of days, I'll work something out and post a link to it here when I'm done. :)

    Much Appreciated!

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