Why are there no automatic small arms?


Rules Questions


Correct me if am wrong, but I can't find a way to make small arms automatic. Why is this? Is there some balance issue with having automatic small arms? If I was to make a homebrewed automatic small arm, what would the pricing be for that?


I am not sure why they omitted sub-machine guns. Seems like balance wise it wouldn't really change up things other than offering variety. With rule as written you burn the clip for a template so its more or less one use a turn. As far as price I would compare automatic and non automatic weapons & the same item lvl to see if there is any discernible difference in price to gauge if there is any need to charge more than comparable items of the same item lvl.


Vexies wrote:

I am not sure why they omitted sub-machine guns. Seems like balance wise it wouldn't really change up things other than offering variety. With rule as written you burn the clip for a template so its more or less one use a turn. As far as price I would compare automatic and non automatic weapons & the same item lvl to see if there is any discernible difference in price to gauge if there is any need to charge more than comparable items of the same item lvl.

One thing I am thinking about doing is adding a weapon mod that makes a weapon automatic at the cost of damage/price. Probably with a price based on level. What do you think?


Just base it on the existing small arms with the blast and explode qualities.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

That wouldn't be possible. There aren't any of those, either.

I wouldn't worry about balance issues with homebrewing automatic small arms, though. Unless you made them completely out of line with other small arms, in addition to adding the automatic property, they would not be a particularly powerful option.


that’sthejoke.gif

Paizo feels that certain AOE weapon effects are worth investing in a certain level of proficiency.


There are however small arms with the line property, another AoE effect. If you want something to compare to on price (in order to reinvent the machine pistol) those might be worth a look.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Ah. The lack of vocal tone in text conversation strikes again.

In all seriousness, though, the question of automatic small arms comes up a lot. Every time I see it, I wonder how many people would actually use them, because I very rarely see anyone using automatic weapons in other categories, due to not wanting to expend an entire magazine and a full action for the cone attack.

With shorter range weapons making the cone even smaller, I expect that they would end up mechanically unattractive to a lot of players.


because then it would be a tech 9000 and 1.


I would use them. But I'm also a support-type Envoy.

With the new 1 Hand quality on weapons like the Handcannon, I don't see why an automatic small arm couldn't be used. Just also give it the 1 Hand quality tied to its automatic quality if it's a matter of hands. In real life you generally need to stabilize automatic weapons due to their crazy kickback anyway.

The tools are all their for it to be balanced in whichever way the devs want. It's just not done yet.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

There are currently no automatic small arms.

However, 1) most energy small arms can have a blasting fusion installed and 2) some small arms (flame pistols, plasma pistols, and lightning pistols) have the line property. Cavitation pistols have the pulse critical property and most weapons that do energy damage can have the burst fusion installed.

I could see a variant of the handcannon ("sawed-off scattergun") with the blast and 1 hand properties.


To all these replies, I do see the disadvantage of automatic guns, but some of my players are really interested in the machine pistol. I like the idea of adding the Free Hands property for automatic. I think that that will be my solution for that problem. Thank you for all the replies!


I dont' really see a problem with adding small arms with auto, or the other properties. I think hadded the 1 hand or free hand thing tied only to using it in automatic mode would be a good balancing point.

It really seems like interseting weird small arms dont' exist purely due to the legacy thought style of having to have specially traits for the "not base proficiency" Which has been partially true before. but in the STarfinder system the extreme range difference, and damage die difference really are enough to differentiate I think. Well also during the playtest of the system and during some of the early time. I believe one driving thought for small arms was that they needed to be very careful to limit them in various ways due to Operative. But empirically since then, thats been proven to be a "not that big of a deal" situation.

Armory 1 helped even that situation a bit. I have some strong hops for Armory 2 that there will be a bunch of small arms with the various properties. and in general some more cool small arms and basic melee weapons.

I really want PDWs to be a more common sort of deal.


Choice is choice there are plenty of questionably useful or even downright terrible items on the list now. I see no harm in adding them only more choice bad or good. From an aesthetics point of view I have always found them cool and fun, especially in a RP environment. Its just really odd that some how those got singled out and omitted for less than obvious reasons. Reviewing the available items I believe Ill home brew some options for my home group as well. Hopefully they get added in a future book.

The Exchange

You just need 4 guns.
Fusillade


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Fusillade is an option for those with enough arms.

It's a fun option that has a lot of problems.

It does nothing for people who want machine pistols and such for concept and image reasons (which I think is most of the point here). It takes 4 separate move actions worth of reloading, if you want to do it a second time. And if you want to actually upgrade your weapons, as you move up in level, you find that a matched set of 4 weapons is either a few levels below what you can get ahold of, or prohibitively expensive.


Maybe none of the pact worlds had that point where weapons technology wasn't quite to assault rifles yet, but there was a big war on, so submachine guns filled that gap for a little while?

If they never put out a submachine gun type weapon, I'm sticking with that.

Community / Forums / Starfinder / Rules Questions / Why are there no automatic small arms? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Rules Questions