general advice for my battle oracle


Advice


Hi all! This is a build I'm making for PFS. My goal is to create a capable front-liner with lots of spells. As far as advice goes, I'd appreciate any suggestions about stats, traits, feats, revelations, mystery, magic gear, and magic items. For backstory reasons, this character must be an archetype-less half-orc oracle of Pharasma with the tongues curse.

Stats:
STR 14
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 14+2

Traits: fate’s favored (I’m taking the tattoo), reactionary

Feats:

1 improved initiative
3 shield focus (heavy shield)
5 shield brace
7 power attack
9 surprise charge
11 extra revelation: combat healer

Revelations: (battle)

1 skill at arms
3 war sight
7 weapon mastery (bardiche)
11 stoneskin

Armor: mythral full plate of speed. (can I slap spikes on this?)
Shield: mythral heavy shield. Are there any particularly good enchants? I think my strongest option may be to save the gold and use magic vestment (granted by battle mystery) on my armor and shield each day.
Weapon: adamantine bardiche, perhaps fortuitous. Skill at arms also lets me have some backup ranged and melee weapons as backup. Any good enchants?
Head: In lieu of a better idea, a circlet of persuasion.
Headband: alluring charisma.
Eyes: In lieu of a better idea, eyes of the eagle.
Shoulders: cloak of resistance
Neck: I plan on having an amulet of natural armor and a swarm bane clasp in my haver’s sack.
Chest: No ideas. A go-to for other characters of mine would be an unfettered shirt, but hopefully I can just cast FoM on myself before I’m incapacitated.
Body: no ideas.
Belt: I’m torn as to which belt would be best. I’m trying to have a good ac and init, so I’ve considered dex. STR is obviously my shtick, but I’m worried about being redundant with bull’s strength and mighty strength. I’d appreciate help brainstorming this one. Str dex and con are all good, and I can get them in any of 7 combinations.
Wrists: I just learned that this is a wondrous item slot - no ideas.
Hands: I was thinking claws of the ice bear for a cheap way to mitigate my ghastly climb mod.
Rings: I’m considering a ring of revelation to get maneuver mastery or battlefield clarity. My swim mod will be buns, but rather than a ring of swimming I think I can use potions.
Feet: No good ideas. Maybe boots of escape?
Misc: If I decide to gain maneuver mastery with the ring, I’d probably pick grapple and buy armbands of the brawler and gauntlets of skilled maneuver. Handy haver’s sack.

Any suggestions to fill in the gaps in my items would be quite helpful.

Thanks!


* Surprise Charge ...doesn't exist as a feat. (I assume you were thinking of Surprising Charge, the Battle revelation.)

* The two shield feats represent a huge dent in an oracle's allotment in PFS (where it'll be years of real-life play-time to achieve higher levels).

* Given your ability to roll twice and pick the higher for initiative, I would think you're probably overdoing emphasis there a bit. Instead of Reactionary, take Accelerated Drinker so you can slam potions as a move-action. (This will let you get big via Enlarge Person so you have 20' reach with your pole-arm.)

* Warpriest half-orcs gain a huge boost from Sacred Tattoo since they can pop off Divine Favor (or anything else) as a swift action. Other spellcasting classes might be better off keeping the otherwise traded-away Orc Ferocity racial trait. (That way, if dropped neg, you'll remain conscious to cast a spell.)

* You are not a full-BAB class, and do not rage. Power Attack is a feat that makes you miss for the occasional benefit of receiving extra damage that you either didn't need to drop the target, or which is still a few points short of dropping the target. I wouldn't take it until much higher up after you can drop really big buffs.

~ ~ ~

STR+ 17 (raise 4th)
DEX: 12
CON: 12 (keeping Orc Ferocity)
INT: 10
WIS: 12
CHA: 15 (raise 8th)

Traits: Accelerated Drinker, (any non-Combat)

1. Combat Reflexes
3. Spell Focus (Conjuration)
5. Augment Summoning
7. Superior Summoning
9. Improved Initiative
11. Divine Interference

Do not take any feat that requires a standard-action; those are reserved for spellcasting. Except at low-levels, or in desperate and/or suboptimal situations, you should not be using a physical weapon on your turn.

--Annoyance: since Oracles lack an aura, they cannot take Sacred Summons, and for that reason they really do suffer in comparison to reach-cleric builds that are real clerics.

Revelations:
1. War Sight
3. Skill at Arms (you can't afford decent equipment until now anyway)
7. Combat Healer or Battlefield Clarity
11. Battlefield Clarity or Combat Healer

Equipment: instead of MFPofS, regular FP + BoS saves 14,500gp. Weapon: Fortuitous bardiche (add Furious if you find a way to rage as an Oracle in a manner that doesn't nerf your spellcasting).

Peruse Brewer's Reach-Cleric guide for other guidance. It's old, but sells the proper frame-of-mind.

Sovereign Court

Having played an Oracle of Battle in PFS, I can tell you from first hand experience that action economy is going to be your biggest hurdle. I put a good amount of resources into being able to quicken Divine Favor ASAP. If I were to redo my build, I would be using a reach weapon with combat reflexes too. Then, as Slim Jim (and I'm sure Maga the Luckbender will be here too, now that someone has said the magical phrase ;) ) I can cast and still remain a serious combat threat.

With 3/4 BAB, Str pretty much has to be an 18 IMO. You won't generally be casting spells with a DC, so a lower Cha in exchange for Str, Con, Dex is ok. Another struggle I had was HP. My AC was plenty high (especially with buffs), but a d8 HD can be rough when you are the frontliner.


With the Combat Healer revelation, an oracle basically picks up a paladin's swift lay-on-hands. This means that Con isn't necessarily a secondary stat, and especially not if he's a half-orc with the Orc Ferocity racial trait (he'd be able to cast two healing spells from below-zero HP).

Strength needs to be primary, but don't butcher your point-buy to strato it. A 15+2=17 is good enough in PFS, as that'll be 20 with bump+belt at 4th, potion enlarging to 22 (which is a sweet-spot for two-handing).

...and, finally, a word about Divine Favor: use it very sparingly if at all. Cast Bless or other multi-target buff over the entire party instead). Be a team-player, and your team will love you.


Gummy Bear wrote:

Having played an Oracle of Battle in PFS, I can tell you from first hand experience that action economy is going to be your biggest hurdle. I put a good amount of resources into being able to quicken Divine Favor ASAP. If I were to redo my build, I would be using a reach weapon with combat reflexes too.

I'm curious about your thoughts on DF. I'm assuming that as soon as I hit 8, DP would be my opening spell in every combat. (+3 to hit and damage, extra attack) Do you still consider quickened DF to be strong after learning DP?

If so, how would you go about quickening it? A rod is quite expensive, but without one DF is a fifth level spell. (only 3rd with extra traits)

Gummy Bear wrote:

With 3/4 BAB, Str pretty much has to be an 18 IMO. You won't generally be casting spells with a DC, so a lower Cha in exchange for Str, Con, Dex is ok. Another struggle I had was HP. My AC was plenty high (especially with buffs), but a d8 HD can be rough when you are the frontliner.

I had the charisma as a primary stat so that I could always meet the bonus spell slot requirements. Admittedly, I haven't played a caster which immediately gets 3 spell slots before. (e.g. oracle or sorc) Do you think that falling behind in cha and capping it around 18 is worth it?

Sovereign Court

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At least when I was planning out my Oracle, the idea behind focusing on DF was that I could then swift action DF and cast Blessing of Fervor in the same round if I had to. That is two spell slots to DP's one, but then I and the party are getting a buff instead of just me in the same round (which is to Slim Jim's point about group buffs). TL;DR, the action economy is what I was going for, not exactly a strict DF > DP comparison. (I also have an aversion to taking spells with too much overlap so take that with a grain of salt).

I think it is worth it. If you are only buffing, the +1 spell per day is all [casting stat] does for you. The minimum to do that, if that is indeed your goal, is a 12 at 1st, 14 at 4th, 16 at 6th, 18 at 8th, and a 20 at 10th. If you capped at 18 Cha by level 10, you'd still have about 30 spells/day (across all your spell levels). A 20 Cha adds 1 spell (at the highest level) to that. Personally, I'd rather have the better combat stats than the single spell, especially when scrolls/wands are so easy to get in PFS (thanks to PP) to replicate that single spell.

Just to reemphasize, my experience is also based off of using a nonreach weapon, so your playstyle/experience will differ from mine. Spending a round of buffing was all I could afford (hence the emphasis on action economy), while you could spend more rounds than that (battle depending) and still contribute damage. TBH if I went the reach approach, I wouldn't lose any sleep over even taking two rounds to buff, the first a group and the second a personal before entering a fight since I could position myself for AoO's every round I didn't use a standard to swing!

Silver Crusade

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Divine Favor isn't all that useful until you can quicken it, IMHO.

Strength is your primary stat. Charisma is a distant 2nd; it just has to be high enough to allow you to cast your spells.

I second the idea of a reach Battle Oracle.

Grand Lodge

Quicken divine favor is great at higher levels. If you are close enough to full attack it menas getting a full attack round one. If want to power buff fast. You have divine favor/ fates favored + righteous might, Bestow Grace of the Champion, or divine vessel. To make you a seeking crew. Boots of speed cover haste when someone does not cast it. Having access to an efficient divine favor gives you many more buffing options making you action economy much more effieient.

For long term buffs you will have stone skin (revelation), Hunter's blessing, air walk, eagles soul (active the short form of the spell when further power is needed).

Surprising charge + size can ensure your get an aoo even when enemies try to avoid you.

Divine favor gives added accuracy and damage especially after level 6 with fates favored.


This is good advice about why quickening DF is strong, and I agree. I'm still interested in hearing how you all would go about doing it. I can think of 3 "ways": getting a lesser metamagic rod, taking the feat, or taking the feat and getting 1-2 traits to lower the spell level.

If I do decide to take trait(s), I feel that there is a whole conversation to be had about how best to do that. I don't like taking extra traits because my build is already tight. I'm left thinking that maybe I should replace reactionary with magical lineage.


Slim Jim wrote:

* Warpriest half-orcs gain a huge boost from Sacred Tattoo since they can pop off Divine Favor (or anything else) as a swift action. Other spellcasting classes might be better off keeping the otherwise traded-away Orc Ferocity racial trait. (That way, if dropped neg, you'll remain conscious to cast a spell.)

* You are not a full-BAB class, and do not rage. Power Attack is a feat that makes you miss for the occasional benefit of receiving extra damage that you either didn't need to drop the target, or which is still a few points short of dropping the target. I wouldn't take it until much higher up after you can drop really big buffs.

Once again, I would appreciate second opinions in this. Slim Jim made me reconsider taking the tattoo due to the strong alternatives. (After all, I can get something like a lucky horseshoe by taking a GP hit.) I'd consider taking either orc ferocity or human-raised (for skilled) instead.

The power attack suggestion surprised me. Some napkin math showed that after buffing a couple times, (which I think the reach strategy permits) I'm reaching fairly large bonuses to hit. (+18 at level 8, around when I planned on taking PA). Going from +18/+18/+13 1d10+14 to +16/+16/+11 1d10+20 seemed strong. Thoughts?

Grand Lodge

My math on my battle oracle was that with divine favor I should always be using power attack. With the buff layed out I could frequent exceed the barbarian and fighter to hit at higher levels. Power attack actually has some self correction for lower accuracy class build it. Most 3/4th bab classes with accuracy boost should be power attacking.


Grandlounge wrote:
My math on my battle oracle was that with divine favor I should always be using power attack. With the buff layed out I could frequent exceed the barbarian and fighter to hit at higher levels. Power attack actually has some self correction for lower accuracy class build it. Most 3/4th bab classes with accuracy boost should be power attacking.

Agreed. I do consider PA to be one of my weaker feats, though. If I take quicken spell, I would likely replace either PA of extra revelation: surprising charge. (And then get charge with the ring)

Silver Crusade

@OP: I played a PFS cleric who Quickened Divine Favor via [Magical Linneage](Divine Favor). This makes Quickened Divine Favor a 4th level spell. I used it a lot and it worked well. Action economy is key to such characters, and Swift Actions help a lot with action economy. The fewer rounds you need to buff the better, although buff rounds hurt less with a reach build.

The simple & cheap way to create a highly effective Pathfinder melee combatant is:
* Strength-based wielding a two handed reach weapon. Longspear, which is a simple weapon, works just fine. Strength sweet-spots are 14, 18, and 22.
* Feats Combat Reflexes & Power Attack
* Position yourself to choke enemy movement & use reach tactics.

Additional feats and tricks may improve on that chasis. Just those two feats give an enormous boost to you DPS. For example, Del_Taco_Eater, just adding Power Attack to your calculations results in about a 20% damage increase. Combat reflexes may perform slightly worse or slightly better depending on table variation. The benefit of these feats at low levels is even clearer.

Using just that chassis (STR 14+ and two feats) you have the basis for a solid frontline PC. This leaves most of your build resources for either whimsy or optimization, as you prefer.


@Magda you bring up an interesting DPR comparison between PA and combat reflexes. The deciding factor for me was eventually getting fortuitous on my weapon. The enchant would give PA extra value while not interacting with combat reflexes.

My current plan is to go with the original build but with the racial +2 in strength, replacing reactionary with magical lineage, and replacing extra revelation with quicken spell. (either at 7th or 9th level, same as PA)

Another question (sort of brought up by Magda): What do you all think of skill at arms? Some call it a trap, but I disagree on the basis of getting +3 AC and a significantly expanded threat range with weapon mastery. As things stand, I think it basically replaces combat healer in my build.


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Del_Taco_Eater wrote:
Slim Jim wrote:
* You are not a full-BAB class, and do not rage. Power Attack is a feat that makes you miss for the occasional benefit of receiving extra damage that you either didn't need to drop the target, or which is still a few points short of dropping the target. I wouldn't take it until much higher up after you can drop really big buffs.
The power attack suggestion surprised me. Some napkin math showed that after buffing a couple times, (which I think the reach strategy permits) I'm reaching fairly large bonuses to hit. (+18 at level 8, around when I planned on taking PA). Going from +18/+18/+13 1d10+14 to +16/+16/+11 1d10+20 seemed strong. Thoughts?

Oracles are a nine-levels spellcasting class -- unless it is your deliberate intent to do so, you shouldn't nerf the most powerful aspect of the class by ignoring it to instead devote your feats to weapon-play. I.e., what does Power Attack bestow upon you at, say, 11th level? Six miserable extra points of damage in a one-handed melee attack at the cost of -3 to hit. Compare that to what Superior Summoning does: give you a whole extra pet monster, which I'll bet does a helluvalot more than +6hp damage. Or Divine Interference, which let's you force enemies to reroll their crits on the party.

Grand Lodge

Combat Reflexes. Is also good feat but once you start fighting a lot of creatures larger that you it become worthless. If you have high initiative and get to the enemy before they get to you the value drops dramatically. If the enemies are smart they will start to avoid provoking aoos.

I love comat reflexes but I find you need to invest a lot to get more than an extra attack a fight out of it. Combat patrol, stacking reach increases (long arm/swrod master flair and a size increase, wild shape etc), or paired oppertunist/ outflank. With that if you are gaining more attacks combat ref + fortuitous then getting martial weapon proficiency anf and ious stone for fauchard gains significant value especiall because battle oracle get easy access to imported crit.

Re spell casting the best stuff on the list function as long as you cast it so there is no investment needed. Buff, defensive spells, movement enhancers, but dimentional anchor, miracle etc.

Let's talk about summoning. Summon monster 5 gets you things like a Babau or an earth elemental. With +12 and +14 to attack respectively with 10 to 12 damage per attack. You opponents at that level will have AC 23-27. Kind of suck doesn't it. But the Babau has at will dispel magic. In my experience the best use of summon get you get ability (dispel, inspire courage etc) and something else to get punched. The latter being the much weaker use. At level 10 on a single summon, if the summon gets attack and kill augmented summoning saves you 20hp. It's ok but it's not strong compared to summoning something the can grapple a caster, a great tripper or dispel magic. It might not even be better than a trampler in a small hallway used to set up flank. It has to be added that summon multiple targets increases the hp soak but also increase the ignorability of most summons.


Slim Jim wrote:
Oracles are a nine-levels spellcasting class -- unless it is your deliberate intent to do so, you shouldn't nerf the most powerful aspect of the class by ignoring it to instead devote your feats to weapon-play. I.e., what does Power Attack bestow upon you at, say, 11th level? Six miserable extra points of damage in a one-handed melee attack at the cost of -3 to hit. Compare that to what Superior Summoning does: give you a whole extra pet monster, which I'll bet does a helluvalot more than +6hp damage. Or Divine Interference, which let's you force enemies to reroll their crits on the party.

In fairness, PA adds 9 damage per hit at 11th level. That means adding roughly 40% to my damage even after increasing my damage with buffs. I still consider it one of the feats which could be cut for divine interference - a suggestion you brought up which would make great use of my plentiful low level spell slots.

As for general playstyle, I'm not looking to build a summoner. (I wouldn't be playing a battle oracle if that were the case.) Thus, I'm evaluating feats like PA not from a "is attacking > summoning" standpoint, but rather a "how good is -x to hit +3x damage" standpoint.


I should add that I'm not opposed to casting summon monster X. I think summoning monsters can add utility to any caster. Instead, I do not want to completely gut the build to be focused on summoning.

Grand Lodge

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Flagbearer (pathfinder society flag) and a longspear. Combat Reflexes and Power Attack. Armor spikes for close range. Shieldbrace if you like to keep the shield.


Thoughts on what feat is best to lose for divine interference? (instead of taking it at lvl 13)


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Del_Taco_Eater wrote:
Slim Jim wrote:
Oracles are a nine-levels spellcasting class -- unless it is your deliberate intent to do so, you shouldn't nerf the most powerful aspect of the class by ignoring it to instead devote your feats to weapon-play. I.e., what does Power Attack bestow upon you at, say, 11th level? Six miserable extra points of damage in a one-handed melee attack at the cost of -3 to hit. Compare that to what Superior Summoning does: give you a whole extra pet monster, which I'll bet does a helluvalot more than +6hp damage. Or Divine Interference, which let's you force enemies to reroll their crits on the party.
In fairness, PA adds 9 damage per hit at 11th level.

Not unless you're two-handing your polearm, which you're not doing with Shield Brace in conjunction with a heavy shield (at least not in PFS, anyway).

At 11th, your oracle's attack-bonus is -3 behind a full-BAB's and -5 behind a rager's. If you Power Attack, you'll be -6 and -8 behind them, respectively. And let's subtract another point or two under the assumption that "professional" martial builds will be much less MAD in point-buy than an oracle, and have started with a 19 or 20 in their attack stat. By 11th, you're easily at least -10 to hit behind any rage-fighter with Gloves of Dueling -- he is as likely to hit with his worst iterative as you are with your main, and any action-economy spent by you to overcome these deficiencies (i.e. self-buffing) is activity better spent sticking it to the enemy or shoring up the party's defenses.

Quote:
As for general playstyle, I'm not looking to build a summoner. (I wouldn't be playing a battle oracle if that were the case.) Thus, I'm evaluating feats like PA not from a "is attacking > summoning" standpoint, but rather a "how good is -x to hit +3x damage" standpoint.

Is there any particular reason you chose half-orc as race, aside from the Sacred Tattoo/Fortune's Favored/Divine Favor thing?

It occurs to me that you could de-MAD point-buy considerably by choosing a CHA-bonus small race and doing a "bad-touch" build.


Slim Jim wrote:

Not unless you're two-handing your polearm, which you're not doing with Shield Brace in conjunction with a heavy shield (at least not in PFS, anyway).

Why's that? I know very little about the feat.

Grand Lodge

Oracle attack bonus at 11.

8 bab + 4 starting str + 1 str level + 1 wepaon focus + 4 quicken divine favor/ fates favored - 3 power attack

= +15

(Slim picked this level becuse it is one where the attack penalties are equal Next level your attack penalit is one less than the fighter)

11 bab + 4 starting str + 1 str level + 1 weapon focus + 2 weapon training + 2 gloves - 3 power attack

= +18 (without the gloves advanatage of 1)

Now this means you are exactly the amount you would be behind. But the fighter has spent 16000 gp. The oracle has spend none. Next consider the oracle can pre-cast hunter blessing +2 to attack and damage (ranger enemy type) with a lot of other bonuses. You can stack righteous might more damage, attack, hp and con. Or, just replace it with divine power (hp haste attack same bonus though higher next level). Blessing of fervor stacks. Ultimately the accuracy of the classes are celebrated to be pretty close.

Don't forget inheritor's smite on the iteratives and extend shield of faith so save some cash. In a dense dungeon Deadly Juggernaut is great. Contagious Zeal stacks with everything above so pick your favorite combination of quickened divine favor + second buff.

Additional cost to being a fighter. Consistent source of flight that gains the oracle >10000 gp right there. There in no reason to assume a fighter in a game is going to have the equipment advantage over a caster if they are remotely self sufficient.

Oracle also have multiple sources of DR (stone skin and dr) Energy resistance etc.

Make the shield a throwing shield so you can drop it. Wear it when you want to focus on defense drop it and two hand for offense. Though I would opt out of it in general and go the combat ref + reach + size route.


Grandlounge wrote:

Additional cost to being a fighter. Consistent source of flight that gains the oracle >10000 gp right there.

What source are you thinking of?


Grandlounge wrote:
...(Slim picked this level becuse it is one where the attack penalties are equal... (snip) ...But the fighter has spent 16000 gp.... (etc, etc.)

Please observe that I am not arguing that a straight-class fighter is better than a straight-class oracle (as that would be silly, as one in a 9-levels caster and the other...isn't). I am simply maintaining that the fighter is far better equipped to exploit Power Attack because he needn't spend one iota of action-economy to do so, whereas the battle oracle needs ready-actions, pre-cast spells already running, and other sorts of situational business all humming in order to keep his bonuses up...and even then he's swinging a weapon, instead of casting spells, in a crude facsimile of a fighter without his hitpoints, fort-save, or feats. An 11th-level fighter? He's BAB11, and has an extra attack, meaning there's more damage available to be granted by Power Attack than to a character not yet granted a second iterative.

~ ~ ~

"But my calculator still says I do more DPR versus CR-appropriate AC while Power Attacking even if my attack-bonus is no longer that great!?" I hear some, er, many players retort. Yes it may, I reply, but your calculator does not account for your imperfect knowledge of opponent AC, and for those times that the monster will straight rip your head clean off because you missed by swinging for the fences when it secretly had only 4hp left on that turn you really, really needed to polish it off right then and there. Predictable and steady damage wins games of attrition more reliably than "spiky" damage and keeps your character alive and therefore expenses low -- and you should definitely chart your course that way that in PFS, because there's no "Roll up another 9th-level character by next week!" home-game stuff in that campaign. You start at 1st-level every time, and no GM ex machina avoids the onerous expense of Raise Dead and Restorations.

Del_Taco_Eater wrote:
Slim Jim wrote:
Not unless you're two-handing your polearm, which you're not doing with Shield Brace in conjunction with a heavy shield (at least not in PFS, anyway).
Why's that? I know very little about the feat.

It's an arguably poorly-worded feat, and the PFS honchos (who are, effectively, Paizo's official errata committee at this point) took it upon themselves to clarify that while Shield Brace will let you use a two-handed polearm with a shield, you're actually one-handing the polearm with an assist ("brace") from your shield hand (which is gripping your shield, of course, and you should be grateful you're not losing its bonus to AC while attacking thusly, as you would if using a buckler to two-hand without the feat).

C'est la vie.

Grand Lodge

Quote:

"But my calculator still says I do more DPR versus CR-appropriate AC while Power Attacking even if my attack-bonus is no longer that great!?"...

but your calculator does not account for your imperfect knowledge of opponent AC (1), and for those times that the monster will straight rip your head clean off because you missed by swinging for the fences (2) when it secretly had only 4hp left on that turn you really (3), really needed to polish it off right then and there.

(1) Yes. You can calculate for 3 of 4 cr higher which will tell you if your bonus is high enough to leave it on all the time.

(2) Variability is a factor but power attack only ever increase your miss rate by 20% on a 3/4th bab character so we it's a smaller effect then you are discribing. If your first attack still has a great than 80% chance to hit this 20% average increase is even lower.

(3) You are often 100% on your first attack so it a small problem that in actually is less than the 20 you would expect for the accuracy change. You are also faking to consider all the times the higher average damage fells a creature without leaving them to attack. The thing about staticisic is you have to consider not only all the out comes but the likelyhood of each. More damage kills more thing soon.

Other stuff:

Spikely damage is fine. See magus, and alchemist. Yes it requires a little skill to play but it's fine. You seem to mostly play Barb dips with 12 rounds of rage so, you know how to work with limited resources.

At the level you picked to compare, oracles have > 42 spells a day that barely qualifies as limited resources. Also I showed that with the money difference and 1 all day spell and one swift action or standard you are exactly as accurate don't paint it as some action economy conundrum in a game where the largest category of classes are fish classes.

Finally, if we are talking extra attack the oracle has multiple haste attack sources as part of the class the fighter does not.

Grand Lodge

Del_Taco_Eater wrote:
Grandlounge wrote:

Additional cost to being a fighter. Consistent source of flight that gains the oracle >10000 gp right there.

What source are you thinking of?

There is a great reddit post about the need for flight for martial I suggest giving it a read they go through most of the options. For oracle they get air walk. Use it and love it.


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Grandlounge wrote:
(3) You are often 100% on your first attack so....

The fighter will be cruising 95% on his main because his base attack bonus, primary stat emphasis, class abilities, and gear focus lend to that. As noted earlier, non-full-BAB classes are working from a base falling through -10 behind him by early teener levels, and require considerable action-economy to achieve parity. The fighter has feats slots raining out of the sky, and hence plenty of room for Power Attack. His class gimmick is physical attacking, which means his feat is applicable nearly all the time.

The higher level a caster achieves, particularly a 9-spells spontaneous, the less and less they're going to be using weaponry. If the caster has room for non-magic-related feats, utilitarian offerings such as Dodge (yes: boring old Dodge), Friendly Switch, and Additional Traits are much more practical than offensive ones that dribble a few extra points of damage with increasingly less-common activities.


Isn't that the arguement for a reach cleric? 2 combat feats to get them to the caster side? Also retain is a thing now, if he ever gets to the point it makes no sense, then switch them out. The op is doing a battle oracle so it is assumed combat will be his thing, I think most will agree that power attack makes sense. If he can't buff up his accuracy right away then he doesn't have to use power attack. Too bad no archetypes I would have said spirit guide :)

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