Construct Advice for a 6th level Alchemist (with Promethean Disciple)


Advice


Hi,
My character is an Alchemist and at 6th level I took the Promethean Disciple Disciple (counts as Craft Construct, can use my Ranks in Alchemy for Caster Level, use Alchemy for all skill checks).

What are some Constructs I which could be good which could be made with Caster Level 6(and then for 7-8-9th levels)? Most of them require a lot higher CL.

And then Constructs tend to be weak for the level you can create them at. Do you know any which could be useful for an Alchemist?

I'm already building myself a Poppet(flying and with extra carrying capacity). I intend to use it to carry around stuff and act as an assistant but also use it in battle to carry and feed potions/infusions to the party.

Should I make it Tiny or Small? I ration that if it is Tiny it would be easier for it to dart around between enemies, but this doesn't seem to be reflected in the rules.

When I hit level 7 I'll probably make a Iron Cobra so it could poison enemies with the poison I make.

Is there a way to bump up my ranks in Alchemy? I know there are some books for making Golems which among other things raise your Caster Level. What if I use those what is the earliest level I could create a Golem - one which would be useful?


ugh - This was supposed to be in the Advice section. I don't see a way to move it or to delete, or to contact the admins.

Can somebody move this this thread for me?

Dark Archive

Caster levels aren't requirements.

IF something explicitly says "caster must be x level" you can ignore that by adding 5 to the dc


Name Violation wrote:

Caster levels aren't requirements.

IF something explicitly says "caster must be x level" you can ignore that by adding 5 to the dc

Nah. I've read other threads and checked the rules on this. I'm pretty sure you can't waive away the Caster Level restriction by increasing the DC by 10.


There's a FAQ

Quote:

Crafting and Bypassing Requirements: What crafting requirements can you bypass by adding +5 to the DC of your Spellcraft check?

---
As presented on page 549 of the Core Rulebook, there are no limitations other than (1) you have to have the item creation feat, and (2) you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites. So racial requirements, specific spell requirements, math requirements (such as "caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus"), and so on, are all subject to the +5 DC rule.

So, when caster level actually is a requirement, you can add +5 to bypass it.

But for the majority of magic items, caster level isn't even usually a requirement. It just tells you other useful things about the item, like how hard it is to dispel and how high the base DC is for crafting the item.


Of the constructs I have looked at, the Rune Guardian, the Graven Guardian, and the Waxwork Creature look to be interesting.

Go for the small poppet rather than the tiny one. It has more hit points, and might survive longer. For flight, I think it is better for ferrying the party before the party has flight all around. The easier darting is accounted for in the stat difference between the tiny and the small poppet.

While the Iron Cobra looks good on paper, it is a wimpy creature that can take a long time to deliver poison. It is of no use during combat. Poison in general is also pretty weak. Your opponents poison saves scale quicker than your poison save DC. As to getting more ranks in alchemy, the only way is to add ranks. Bumping the skill level, however, is much easier. The spell Tears to Wine has a scaling bonus. The spell Crafter's Fortune [and also Beloved Of The Forge] give you a significant boost. The Master Alchemist feat also is a big boost.

Lastly, check out Williamoak's Construct Guide for a lot of ideas. Also read the discussion for stuff not in the guide.

/cevah

EDIT: Flagged for moving


Terra-cotta and clockwork constructs are also good.

Specially clockworks, because of the clockwork servant being able to repair.

Also dont forget that you can add any template that fits (ex: steam powered, shield guardian, etc.)

Paizo Employee Customer Service Representative

Moved to Pathfinder RPG Advice.


Cevah wrote:
Lastly, check out Williamoak's Construct Guide for a lot of ideas. Also read the discussion for stuff not in the guide.

Oops. Wrong link above. Here is the correct one:

discussion

On one of my posts in the thread, I list quite a number of buffs for skills to make the high DCs needed.

/cevah


Melkiador wrote:

There's a FAQ

Quote:

Crafting and Bypassing Requirements: What crafting requirements can you bypass by adding +5 to the DC of your Spellcraft check?

---
As presented on page 549 of the Core Rulebook, there are no limitations other than (1) you have to have the item creation feat, and (2) you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites. So racial requirements, specific spell requirements, math requirements (such as "caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus"), and so on, are all subject to the +5 DC rule.

So, when caster level actually is a requirement, you can add +5 to bypass it.

But for the majority of magic items, caster level isn't even usually a requirement. It just tells you other useful things about the item, like how hard it is to dispel and how high the base DC is for crafting the item.

Wait a second ... since i also playing a Alchemist contructing constructs (Which is eating all my wealth for little to no use ... but i like the style.)

I would say: No you can't go over the Caster-level-limit. .

Under "Building and Modifying constructs" it says:

d20pfrd wrote:
Like when crafting magic items, a creator with a sufficiently high skill bonus may ignore these requirements. Each missing requirement increases the Craft DC by 5. Regardless, the creator must meet all item creation feats and minimum caster level requirements.

The word regardless seems to take that out of the usual clause.

Back to topic: Straight up "Animated Objects" can keep up on the pure strength/attack/carry my stuff front. And have a "reasonable" pricing for that (Still could hire like 100 men for that price but whatever). Level 7 opens up the Homunculi, which do have good intelligence and can have unlimited HD (Which means feats and skills, can get a cl) So far my Homunculus did well, though i always fear it will get shot down some day.


"Minimum Caster Level requirements" refers to having the minimum Caster Level to cast a spell, ie you must have a Caster Level of 5 to cast a fireball spell or to create a scroll of it. If a construct requires a specific spell to craft it, you must meet the Caster Level for that spell or have someone who does supply the spell, or add +5 DC to ignore the spell (though you still have to have the minimum Caster Level to cast it)

That is how the two (perceived conflicting) requirements resolve the issue in question.


DeathlessOne wrote:

"Minimum Caster Level requirements" refers to having the minimum Caster Level to cast a spell, ie you must have a Caster Level of 5 to cast a fireball spell or to create a scroll of it. If a construct requires a specific spell to craft it, you must meet the Caster Level for that spell or have someone who does supply the spell, or add +5 DC to ignore the spell (though you still have to have the minimum Caster Level to cast it)

That is how the two (perceived conflicting) requirements resolve the issue in question.

additional verbiage:

“Caster Level: Some constructs, especially the more powerful ones, require the creator to be of a certain caster level in order to craft them. Unlike some other crafting requirements, this requirement must be met in order to craft the construct, and cannot be ignored simply by increasing the DC of the skill check to craft the construct by 5.”

It isn’t very ambiguous on this point.


A tattoo guardian is something to look forward to. Not so much for its offensive capabilities as for the bodyguard ability. CL 9.

A cutlass spider is decent for offense. CL 7-8.

A waxwork creature is about the best you'll get at CL 6. It's also hard to actually destroy for most enemies. A tiger is 6 HD (so CL 6 required) though it'd lose pounce.


Another cool construct is the Guardian Scroll, which grapples and forces its victims to suffocate (casters can't use verbal components).

********
Btw, just so that people know, the alchemist has various ways to deal with the "+5 from missing spell" rule.

1: Spell Knowledge discovery, to gain any spell that you need but can't get from Alchemist extract.

2: Material Mastery, cuts the penalty from -5 to -2. This means you can skip 2 spell for -4 instead of -10 to the check.

3: Tumor familiar can possibly be a valet familiar (not sure of any FAQ or ruling against it)

* Depending on the GM,
4: Some constructs (mainly those with SLA, Ex: Rune Guardians) could possibly help with cooperative crafting.


5: Get a friend to help with the construction. You don't necessarily have to provide the spell yourself. Cooperative crafting is only necessary to reduce the time, the spell(s) can be provided without it.


Lelomenia wrote:
DeathlessOne wrote:

"Minimum Caster Level requirements" refers to having the minimum Caster Level to cast a spell, ie you must have a Caster Level of 5 to cast a fireball spell or to create a scroll of it. If a construct requires a specific spell to craft it, you must meet the Caster Level for that spell or have someone who does supply the spell, or add +5 DC to ignore the spell (though you still have to have the minimum Caster Level to cast it)

That is how the two (perceived conflicting) requirements resolve the issue in question.

additional verbiage:

“Caster Level: Some constructs, especially the more powerful ones, require the creator to be of a certain caster level in order to craft them. Unlike some other crafting requirements, this requirement must be met in order to craft the construct, and cannot be ignored simply by increasing the DC of the skill check to craft the construct by 5.”

It isn’t very ambiguous on this point.

Except that text seems to just be unofficial d20pfsrd fluff. What official source did it come from?


At worse they just compiled the rule to make it clear.

Iron Golem Construction:
CL 16th; Price 150,000 gp
Requirements Craft Construct, cloudkill, geas/quest, limited wish, polymorph any object, creator must be caster level 16th; Skill Craft (armor) or Craft (weapons) DC 21; Cost 80,000 gp

Guardian Scroll:
CL 8th; Price 5,000 gp (7,500 gp)
Construction
Requirements Craft Construct, bull’s strength, false life, fly, lesser geas, magic weapon, make whole; paper made from an intelligent plant creature that dies or is slain during the paper-making process, or a more costly alchemically treated paper; creator must have 5 ranks in Linguistics; Cost 2,500 gp (3,750 gp)

Poppet:
CL 3rd; Price 900 gp
Construction
Requirements Craft Construct or Craft Poppet, make whole, mending; Skill Craft (carpentry) DC 18; Cost 500 gp

*Notice how out of those 3 examples only the Golem said, "creator must be caster level X". So yes some (probably most) have a minimum caster level. It does not mean that they all have a minimum caster level.

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