Korafireheart |
So i have a level 6 teifling pyrokineticist with 6 levels in kineticist. Im wanting multiclass into a kifemaster rogue, as my character has come upon some fancy daggers shall we say amd id like to make more. Im wanting to make several enchanted daggers. (I was inspired by liam o brians character in critical role campaign one as well as a homebrew npc). I was looking for advice on building it while keeping in mi d that shes a smuggler and probably should take the smuggler rogue talent aswell as i plan on converting her to a desnan in the future aswell as that she will become a mythic heroe with the trickster path in the future. I have her build planed out but id like some other ideas on a build or if theres anything i shouldnt do.
avr |
First as a kineticist don't multiclass, everything scales by kineticist level. Level 7 is especially good for a kineticist as they get their 2nd element then. If you do multiclass and choose rogue, don't choose the knifemaster archetype, you want something which keeps d6s for sneak attack when you use it with a kinetic blast.
PossibleCabbage |
If you really want to build a kineticist who does rogue stuff, you're much better off Variant Multiclassing. At level 7 you would have traded 2 feats for trapfinding and sneak attack, and since the kineticist doesn't have that many important feats this is reasonable.
Of course, the whole "trapfinding" schtick works better with an aether kineticist, since telekinetic finesse lets you disarm the trap from across the room, but you're getting a 2nd element soon so if that's something you want to do...
PossibleCabbage |
Here's the thing though- the kineticist does not have any synergies with other classes. Any other level you would take in another class makes you a worse kineticist, and the only thing you could multiclass in which helps your kineticst stuff is the evangelist PRC (which I suppose is fine.)
I mean, no matter how fancy the daggers you are finding are, they are going to hurt less than a kinetic blade. If you wanted to be a roguish kineticist, the answer is VMC rogue. I've played one, it works pretty well.
But the best way to combine a knifemaster rogue with a kineticist is: Kineticist 19/knifemaster rogue 1.
Meirril |
So i have a level 6 teifling pyrokineticist with 6 levels in kineticist. Im wanting multiclass into a kifemaster rogue, as my character has come upon some fancy daggers shall we say amd id like to make more. Im wanting to make several enchanted daggers. (I was inspired by liam o brians character in critical role campaign one as well as a homebrew npc). I was looking for advice on building it while keeping in mi d that shes a smuggler and probably should take the smuggler rogue talent aswell as i plan on converting her to a desnan in the future aswell as that she will become a mythic heroe with the trickster path in the future. I have her build planed out but id like some other ideas on a build or if theres anything i shouldnt do.
What exactly do you want your Kineticist to do that adding Rogue levels would enable? If you can accomplish that without adding non-Kineticist levels, you'll be better off.
Actually that more or less applies to any character class. You only dip if the dip makes your character accomplish a goal. If you aren't actively chasing a goal, dipping into other classes just makes your character weak for no tangible benefit.
Also what about the daggers makes you want to abandon your blasts? If you could explain that it would help a bit. Something tells me that whatever the daggers can do, in the long run it isn't going to be as good as improving your blasts. Unless the GM just gave you something stupidly overpowered for a 15th level character when you're 6th level.
Meirril |
I'm also going to say, making a Kinetisist into a magic item crafter is a bit...odd. Worse, crafting weapons, something that Kinetisists don't generally use. Rogue is slightly less bad, because you at least use weapons. But its still bad because Rogues won't have the prerequisite spells so that means a lot of +5 DC to the crafting roll.
Also your primary stat isn't int, and you'll have to use Master Craftsmen feat to craft magic items as a non-caster. That means sinking ranks into craft: weapons, and needing an absurdly good modifier to add special abilities to your weapons.
If you want to be a 'smuggler' you probably should aim to craft wonderous items instead. Jeweler is the most favored crafting skill for wonderous items, but you might want to become a tailor instead. This way you can sew together bags to make bags of holding, backpacks to turn into handy haversacks, and the best for a smuggler being a portable hole. Oh, also you could eventually make yourself some boots of teleportation. A smuggler with boots of teleportation and a pocket full of portable holes can get what you want past almost any guard.
PossibleCabbage |
Kineticists can take Kinetic Crafting if they really want to craft magic items, but this is a class that puts a huge stress on stats so investing heavily in Intelligence is rough unless you are working with a very generous stat generation method.
Korafireheart |
Korafireheart wrote:So i have a level 6 teifling pyrokineticist with 6 levels in kineticist. Im wanting multiclass into a kifemaster rogue, as my character has come upon some fancy daggers shall we say amd id like to make more. Im wanting to make several enchanted daggers. (I was inspired by liam o brians character in critical role campaign one as well as a homebrew npc). I was looking for advice on building it while keeping in mi d that shes a smuggler and probably should take the smuggler rogue talent aswell as i plan on converting her to a desnan in the future aswell as that she will become a mythic heroe with the trickster path in the future. I have her build planed out but id like some other ideas on a build or if theres anything i shouldnt do.What exactly do you want your Kineticist to do that adding Rogue levels would enable? If you can accomplish that without adding non-Kineticist levels, you'll be better off.
Actually that more or less applies to any character class. You only dip if the dip makes your character accomplish a goal. If you aren't actively chasing a goal, dipping into other classes just makes your character weak for no tangible benefit.
Also what about the daggers makes you want to abandon your blasts? If you could explain that it would help a bit. Something tells me that whatever the daggers can do, in the long run it isn't going to be as good as improving your blasts. Unless the GM just gave you something stupidly overpowered for a 15th level character when you're 6th level.
Honestly i thought it would be fun to combine the classes to be able to be big and loud with my blasts and to be sneaky and do rogue things as well. Im taking knife master becuase i got my hands on a +2 flaming throwing dagger, corrosive throwing returning dagger that does bleeding damage, and ive commisioned a shocking masterwork blood crystal dagger that also does additional bleeding damage. I wanted to use them cause i thought they were cool and it would make sense for her to take classes in rogue because she has a criminal background. Im mostly doing this for the daggers and her background.
Korafireheart |
I'm also going to say, making a Kinetisist into a magic item crafter is a bit...odd. Worse, crafting weapons, something that Kinetisists don't generally use. Rogue is slightly less bad, because you at least use weapons. But its still bad because Rogues won't have the prerequisite spells so that means a lot of +5 DC to the crafting roll.
Also your primary stat isn't int, and you'll have to use Master Craftsmen feat to craft magic items as a non-caster. That means sinking ranks into craft: weapons, and needing an absurdly good modifier to add special abilities to your weapons.
If you want to be a 'smuggler' you probably should aim to craft wonderous items instead. Jeweler is the most favored crafting skill for wonderous items, but you might want to become a tailor instead. This way you can sew together bags to make bags of holding, backpacks to turn into handy haversacks, and the best for a smuggler being a portable hole. Oh, also you could eventually make yourself some boots of teleportation. A smuggler with boots of teleportation and a pocket full of portable holes can get what you want past almost any guard.
Also shes not crafting them they were loot amd one shes having made in a forgery. My gm is very generous with loot. The last batch of loot was a chest of pearls, white dragon hide, amd 2 blood crystals. The other half of the party(we were split) got a chest of rubies. Hes also making the party legendary throughout the game. He has a whole homebrew side story to our AP that consists of high risk high reward side quests. But no shes not crafting anything.
PossibleCabbage |
If you want, you can be sneaky with your kinetic blasts too.
Consider the feat Conceal Spell which explicitly works with spell like abilities, which includes a kinetic blast. So you can blast people with ropes of fire and have people be none the wiser. On one hand, it's silly, but on the other hand- it's awesome.
Korafireheart |
And as i said before this build is something i thought would be fun to play i know the two classes dont meld and that i shouldnt really be multiclassing with a kineticist. This build is not a strategic build or a good one even but its one that makes semse for my character and one that goes well with the story.
NoTongue |
Meirril wrote:Honestly i thought it would be fun to combine the classes to be able to be big and loud with my blasts and to be sneaky and do rogue things as well. Im taking knife master becuase i got my hands on a +2 flaming throwing dagger, corrosive throwing returning dagger that does bleeding damage, and ive commisioned a shocking masterwork blood crystal dagger that also does additional bleeding damage. I wanted to use them cause i thought they were cool and it would...Korafireheart wrote:So i have a level 6 teifling pyrokineticist with 6 levels in kineticist. Im wanting multiclass into a kifemaster rogue, as my character has come upon some fancy daggers shall we say amd id like to make more. Im wanting to make several enchanted daggers. (I was inspired by liam o brians character in critical role campaign one as well as a homebrew npc). I was looking for advice on building it while keeping in mi d that shes a smuggler and probably should take the smuggler rogue talent aswell as i plan on converting her to a desnan in the future aswell as that she will become a mythic heroe with the trickster path in the future. I have her build planed out but id like some other ideas on a build or if theres anything i shouldnt do.What exactly do you want your Kineticist to do that adding Rogue levels would enable? If you can accomplish that without adding non-Kineticist levels, you'll be better off.
Actually that more or less applies to any character class. You only dip if the dip makes your character accomplish a goal. If you aren't actively chasing a goal, dipping into other classes just makes your character weak for no tangible benefit.
Also what about the daggers makes you want to abandon your blasts? If you could explain that it would help a bit. Something tells me that whatever the daggers can do, in the long run it isn't going to be as good as improving your blasts. Unless the GM just gave you something stupidly overpowered for a 15th level character when you're 6th level.
From what you I understand the party acquired daggers and you are going to multiclass into a character that will be really bad at using them and having a criminal background doesn't = rogue.
I've played a wizard thief who stole to fund his potion addiction, a Rogue class is just a bunch of mechanics, you can be a lawful good lord with nothing but levels in rogue or slayer.
Meirril |
Honestly i thought it would be fun to combine the classes to be able to be big and loud with my blasts and to be sneaky and do rogue things as well. Im taking knife master becuase i got my hands on a +2 flaming throwing dagger, corrosive throwing returning dagger that does bleeding damage, and ive commisioned a shocking masterwork blood crystal dagger that also does additional bleeding damage. I wanted to use them cause i thought they were cool and it would...
Ok. Rogue is a 3/4 BAB class, just like Kinetisist is. The only advantage unRogue will have over Kinetisist is that you'll get weapon finesse for free, and dex to damage for free starting at 3 levels of unRogue. I assume your Kinetisist has a better dex than str since dex directly feeds into the ability to hit with blasts. You can stay pure kinetisist and just pick up weapon finesse as a feat, and get the Agility enchantment on the daggers to give you dex to damage if you want it.
But instead of the Agility enchantment get Conductive for the same cost (+1 adjustment). That will let you add your blast damage to 1 dagger strike per round. For the same cost getting to use your classes main offensive ability instead of your dex mod to damage is a better deal.
As for stealth...it is a class skill for Kinetisist. That means you'll be just as good as stealth now if you sank lots of ranks in it as you would be as a Rogue. If you sink multiple levels into rogue you can use a few rogue talents to let you do stuff like move faster but it won't really make you more stealthy. Depending on what kind of blasts you have access to, you could learn telekinetic invisibility, or just pick up a ring of invisibility. Get a few more stealth focused items like Cloak of Elven Kind and the stealth enchantment for armor and you should be golden for sneaking around without being a rogue.
So if you get your daggers to be conductive, your stab will be slightly weaker than you were planning. But, you won't have to get flanking for every attack or make them flatfooted somehow. Oh, and you'll be able to blast at range for full power, you'll have more wild talents to make you more diverse (like flying).
If you add 2 levels of Rogue you're blasts will be 2 levels weaker and you'll gain 1d8 of suprise attack for every 2 levels. That isn't a good trade. You can't use sneak attack in tons of situations. You have to put yourself at risk to use sneak attack. And any time you need to pump a lot more damage you won't be able to burn for as many extra dice. Especially since kinetisist gains a lot more abilities to make more efficient use of burn as you gain levels. Really, the best kinetisist build is just the straight class with no dips. Use feats and gear to do anything you want to instead of taking a dip.
avr |
And as i said before this build is something i thought would be fun to play i know the two classes dont meld and that i shouldnt really be multiclassing with a kineticist. This build is not a strategic build or a good one even but its one that makes semse for my character and one that goes well with the story.
If so, there's not a lot of point asking for advice.
PossibleCabbage |
So the long and short of it is that the Kineticist gets stuff that lets it be good at rogue stuff, but the rogue (and indeed all the other classes, period) gets nothing that is very useful to the kineticist.
Like a trait for Disable Device, VMC Rogue, Skilled Kineticist (and Greater), Telekinetic Finesse and Invisibility, and some of the several methods to fly constantly let you be invisible and flying 100% of the time and you will add 1/2 your level to perception to find traps, disable device, sleight of hand, and stealth while being able to pick locks and pockets from across the room if not further away (with extended and extreme range). A character like this is an AMAZING thief, probably better at sneaking into places and taking things than any rogue you could build- they just have very little use for a dagger.