So, what is the best familiar with the Mauler archetype to serve as a small character's flying mount? Right now I'm leaning toward the shimmerwing dragonfly.
The most practical is a flying fox. A large fruit-eating bat, not a magical fox that is.
Though perfect flight...if you can squeeze your weight, the saddle and the rest of your gear down to 33 pounds max there's a definite reason to go with your dragonfly.
Wouldn't it be 43 lb for a light load? 6 str base +4 for moving from tiny to medium, +2 from battle form for 12 str?
This is an interesting idea that I had not realised was possible.
I would have thought that a shimmerwing dragonfly would have a carrying capacity of 64 1/2 lbs. A dragonfly is an insect, which means it has 6 legs. I think it is more sensible to give it the carrying capacity of a quadruped than a biped.
If that is so then it can easily carry a small PC + gear.
Then there is this-
"Increased Strength (Ex)
At 3rd level and every 2 levels thereafter, a mauler’s Strength score increases by 1. As a result of this ability, the familiar’s Intelligence score remains 6; a mauler can never have an Intelligence score higher than 6.
This alters the familiar’s Intelligence score advancement."
Which means the familiar will have a str of 13 at level 3 and 14 at level 5.
And another rule-
"Improved Familiars Restriction: The abilities of an improved familiar don’t stack with those of any familiar archetype that alters or replaces the variable bonus a familiar grants its master or speak with animals of its kind. (A leshy warden’s leshy familiar doesn’t grant a variable bonus or speak with animals of its kind, so it doesn’t have abilities that stack with those familiar archetypes.)"
I am not sure exactly what this means but I think it means you can't take mauler with an improved familiar, which is a pity.
Wouldn't it be 43 lb for a light load? 6 str base +4 for moving from tiny to medium, +2 from battle form for 12 str?
Yes, forgot to include battle form. I don't think the quadruped modifier makes sense on a flying creature though JJ. For comparison a flying fox starts at 9 strength and has a 15 by level 2 in battle form, 16 by level 3 etc.
Sage is one of the two familiar archetypes you can take on an improved familiar, I can't remember what the other is but mauler isn't it.
I don't think the quadruped modifier makes sense on a flying creature though JJ. For comparison a flying fox starts at 9 strength and has a 15 by level 2 in battle form, 16 by level 3 etc.
Sage is one of the two familiar archetypes you can take on an improved familiar, I can't remember what the other is but mauler isn't it.
As far as I can figure, you can take the Ambassador, Emissary, Figment, Prankster, Sage or School Familiar Archetypes with an improved familiar. But not Mauler.
I concur that applying the quadruped bonus to a creature while flying isn't logical. But I think it is the RAW.
There are some pseudo-improved familiar options that can be mauler. Like the wasp familiar or the magical child familiar.
Wouldn't it be 43 lb for a light load? 6 str base +4 for moving from tiny to medium, +2 from battle form for 12 str?Yes, forgot to include battle form. I don't think the quadruped modifier makes sense on a flying creature though JJ. For comparison a flying fox starts at 9 strength and has a 15 by level 2 in battle form, 16 by level 3 etc.
Sage is one of the two familiar archetypes you can take on an improved familiar, I can't remember what the other is but mauler isn't it.
Emissary familiar as well. If you think about it, it would almost be anti-thematic if the option wasn't available.
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No they don't. Vermins only have access to the belt and eyes slots (unless you pick the Extra Item Slot feat). This bars out Muleback Cords, but makes the Heavyload Belt available.
Source: Magic items slots
So, have we determined if a flying creature can count as a quadraped. One odd thing to note, dragonflies do have 4 wings....
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It doesn't matter if flying or walking, RAW quadrupeds (or creatures with more than 4 legs, since Pathfinder uses an inclusive language when applicable: FAQ) have a higher carry capacity than bipeds.
Someone could argue that this argument makes no sense while flying, someone else might reply saying that it is not about movement type at all, but sturdier body structure, more efficient distribution of the weight along the spine and so on. Table variations may occur, as always, but at least in this case rules are clear.
Things like a griffin or a hippogriff count as quadrupeds. But a lot options fit better in another category. The info is in animal archive and I don’t think there is a good online version of it so I’m going to do an ugly copy paste.
Avian*
Armor, belt, chest, eyes, headband, neck, ring, wrist
Axe beakB3, dimorphodonAP37, dinosaur (pteranodon)B1, dire batB1, eagle, giant vultureB3, hawk, owl, quetzalcoatlusAP37, rocB1Bat, dodo, hawk, osprey, owl, parrot, raven, rhamphorhynchus, snail kite, thrush, toucan
—-
Biped (claws/paws)*
Armor, belt, chest, eyes, headband, neck, ring, shoulders, wrist
Dinosaur (allosaurusB2, deinonychus, iguanodonB3, pachycephalosaurusB3, parasaurolophusB2, spinosaurusB3, tyrannosaurusB1, velociraptor), kangarooB3Dinosaur (compsognathus)
—-
Biped (hands)*
All item slots
Ape, baboonB2Monkey
—-
Piscine
Belt, chest (saddle), eyes
Dinosaur (tylosaurusB2), dolphinB1, manta rayB2, orcaB1, shark, stingrayB2, walrus**Seal
—-
Quadruped (claws/paws)
Armor, belt (saddle), chest, eyes, headband, neck, shoulders, wrist
Badger, bear, cheetah, dire ratB1, dog, giant weaselAP67, goblin dogB1, hyenaB1, leopard, lion, panda**, thylacineB3, tiger, wolf, wolverineCat, donkey rat, flying squirrel, fox, hedgehog, mongoose, otter, platypus, raccoon, rat, skunk, squirrel, weasel
—-
Quadruped/Hexapod (feet)
Armor, belt (saddle), chest, eyes, headband, neck, shoulders, wrist
Camel, dinosaur (triceratopsB1), elephantB1, giant antUM, giant mantisUM, giant waspUM, hippopotamusB2, mammothB1, mastodonB1, megafauna (arsinoitheriumB2, baluchitheriumB3, megatheriumB2), rhinocerosB1
—-
Quadruped (hooves)
Armor, belt (saddle), chest, eyes, feet (horseshoes), head, headband, neck, shoulders, wrist
AntelopeB3, aurochsB1, bisonB1, boar, buffaloB1, elkB3, horse, llama**, megafauna (megalocerosB2), moose**, pony, ramB2Goat, pig
—-
Quadruped (squat-body)
Armor, eyes, headband, neck, shoulders, wrist
Dinosaur (elasmosaurusB1), giant frogB1, giant snapping turtleB2, megafauna (archelonB3, glyptodonB2)Snapping turtle, toad, turtle
—-
Saurian
Armor, belt (saddle), chest, eyes, headband, neck
Alligator, crocodile, dinosaur (ankylosaurusB1, brachiosaurusB1, dimetrodonB3, stegosaurusB1), giant chameleonB3, giant geckoB3, megafauna (megalaniaB3), monitor lizardB1Dwarf caiman, lizard, marine iguana
—-
Serpentine
Belt, eyes, headband
Constrictor snake, electric eelB1, garB2, giant leechUM, giant moray eelB1, giant slugUM, megafauna (basilosaurusB3)Sea krait, viper
—-
Verminous
Belt, eyes
Giant beetleUM, giant centipedeUM, giant crabUM, giant scorpionUM, giant spiderUM, octopusB1, squidB1Blue-ringed octopus, giant isopod, greensting scorpion, house centipede, king crab
It’s hard to say where the dragonfly would fit. I’d be tempted to say Avian, but Verminous may be possible. Quadruped would imply the creature has strong legs, while the dragonfly can only slowly skitter along using its legs.
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I really don't understand the conundrum here. Vermins have their own category, regardless the number of legs, body shape or anything. The dragonfly is a vermin, therefore it is part of the Verminous category.
The only thing the term "quadruped" implies is that the creature as (at least) four legs: not strength, nor articular complexity, nor anything else, just a number. And the dragonfly satisfies such condition.
Same argument applies to the Wasp familiar, for example. Btw, the table you pasted is already reported in the Magic Item Slot page on d20pfsrd, which I have already linked above.
EDIT: I just realised that hexapods are merged in the quadruped category which, while makes the problem of item slots a bit more complex, corroborates the idea that dragonflies do count as quadrupeds.
So quadraped weight capacity, vermin item slots.
It doesn't matter if flying or walking, RAW quadrupeds (or creatures with more than 4 legs, since Pathfinder uses an inclusive language when applicable: FAQ) have a higher carry capacity than bipeds.
Someone could argue that this argument makes no sense while flying, someone else might reply saying that it is not about movement type at all, but sturdier body structure, more efficient distribution of the weight along the spine and so on. Table variations may occur, as always, but at least in this case rules are clear.
You wouldn't treat a Pegasus as a quadruped?I don't think the quadruped modifier makes sense on a flying creature though JJ. For comparison a flying fox starts at 9 strength and has a 15 by level 2 in battle form, 16 by level 3 etc.
Sage is one of the two familiar archetypes you can take on an improved familiar, I can't remember what the other is but mauler isn't it.
As far as I can figure, you can take the Ambassador, Emissary, Figment, Prankster, Sage or School Familiar Archetypes with an improved familiar. But not Mauler.
I concur that applying the quadruped bonus to a creature while flying isn't logical. But I think it is the RAW.
I certainly would on the ground. And as I said, the RAW is it's carrying capacity is doubled while flying.
If you think about more or less realistic creatures then I don't think it is logical to double carrying capacity while flying based on the number of legs. Real flying creatures of any size have all sorts of adaptations to keeping weight down and much of their body is muscle used to fly.
A Pegasus is a horse with wings drawn on the side without muscles to move it's wings let alone use them to fly. So Pegasi belong in imaginary worlds where similarly impossible things can happen, like magic working.
A figment trades speak with animals of its kind and isn't eligible to be an improved familiar. Ambassador, emissary, prankster, sage or school familiar archetypes are possible, and of those I can't see why anyone would take ambassador or prankster on an improved familiar; which leaves emissary, sage, school familiar.
A figment trades speak with animals of its kind and isn't eligible to be an improved familiar. Ambassador, emissary, prankster, sage or school familiar archetypes are possible, and of those I can't see why anyone would take ambassador or prankster on an improved familiar; which leaves emissary, sage, school familiar.
You are right, my mistake. :(
It'd be nice to be able to use the wasp familiar that a worshiper of Calistria can get.
If your companion gets a neck slot it can use a Charlatan's Symbol to store a wand of enlarge person to be of more use when not in mauler form.
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I really don't understand the conundrum here. Vermins have their own category, regardless the number of legs, body shape or anything. The dragonfly is a vermin, therefore it is part of the Verminous category.
The only thing the term "quadruped" implies is that the creature as (at least) four legs: not strength, nor articular complexity, nor anything else, just a number. And the dragonfly satisfies such condition.
Same argument applies to the Wasp familiar, for example. Btw, the table you pasted is already reported in the Magic Item Slot page on d20pfsrd, which I have already linked above.
EDIT: I just realised that hexapods are merged in the quadruped category which, while makes the problem of item slots a bit more complex, corroborates the idea that dragonflies do count as quadrupeds.
The thing is that "Vermin" is a creature type determining whether you can polymorph into one or charm one, and stuff like that. But not all Vermin have the Verminous body type.
Take another look that I referred to, you linked to, and Melkiador quoted. I said that dragonflies are in the quadraped/hexapod category with feet. Included in that category are giant Ants and Wasps. Giant Wasps have the Vermin Creature Type, but according to this chart, they have the Quadruped/Hexapod Body Type for magic item slots.
There is a Verminous Body Type. It includes Octopi and Crabs.
A Dragonfly's body is more like a Wasp's than an Octopus's.
You are right, and in fact I corrected myself in an EDIT to my previous post. The thing is that, especially since hexapods are merged with the quadruple category, dragonflies have even more reasons to count as quadrupeds for the purpose of carry capacity.
When we then talk about item slots, I agree that, being hexapod more specific than verminous, it should supersede. I just completely missed the fact that hexapods were specifically called out as part of quadrupeds.
So shimmerwing dragonfly mauler takeaways:
- Magic item slots as per hexapod(feet): Armor, belt (saddle), chest, eyes, headband, neck, shoulders, wrist
- After level 3 light load weight capacity while in battle form: 64lbs.
- Perfect mobility flight (Main reason to do this)
Overall this seems like it is an EXCELENT choice for small characters, and with some magic item support even a solid option for medium characters.
Question, is there a way to utilize the drgonfly's flyby attack while mounted?
So shimmerwing dragonfly mauler takeaways:
- Magic item slots as per hexapod(feet): Armor, belt (saddle), chest, eyes, headband, neck, shoulders, wrist
- After level 3 light load weight capacity while in battle form: 64lbs.
- Perfect mobility flight (Main reason to do this)Overall this seems like it is an EXCELENT choice for small characters, and with some magic item support even a solid option for medium characters.
Question, is there a way to utilize the drgonfly's flyby attack while mounted?
Combo it with Rideby Attack.
Combo it with Rideby Attack.So shimmerwing dragonfly mauler takeaways:
- Magic item slots as per hexapod(feet): Armor, belt (saddle), chest, eyes, headband, neck, shoulders, wrist
- After level 3 light load weight capacity while in battle form: 64lbs.
- Perfect mobility flight (Main reason to do this)Overall this seems like it is an EXCELENT choice for small characters, and with some magic item support even a solid option for medium characters.
Question, is there a way to utilize the drgonfly's flyby attack while mounted?
hmm...
makes me want to explore mixing this with eldritch guardian to do some kind of flying mounted fighter build.
That's the class that I am working with on my build currently. Unfortunately a lot of the feats you are taking as a rider don't really help with your mount. Still, full fighter hp and BAB makes for a solid mount.
I'm also tossing around the idea of a bloodrager/VMC sorcerer build. Primalist allows for some awesome rage powers to get added and the fun of sharing buff is too good to pass up on completely.
The question is, how formidable can we make the Familiar?
The build has nothing to do with using it as a mount, much less something that flies, but I do have the following build which makes for a pretty terrifying familiar.
Double Archer
Key concepts: An archer with a familiar who is also an archer
Traits: Storm Hunter, Roving Range, Observant Archer, Weapon Training
Race: Half-elf or Human
Racial Traits: Heart of the Fey and Military Tradition(Human), Ancestral Arms & Thinblood Resilience(Half-elf)
Class:
Fighter (2), Inquisitor/Magus/Warpriest/Monk(x)
or
Fighter (2), Bloodrager(4), Arcane Archer(X)
Archetypes: Eldritch Guardian(Fighter), Myrmidarch(Magus), Arsenal Chaplain(War Priest), Monk(Zen Archer)
Bloodline: Shapechanger
Magus Arcana: Familiar(5th)
F. Archetype: Mauler
Familiar: Raccoon
Feats(Magus): Exotic WP [Hornbow, orc][c](1st), Point Blank Shot[c](1st), Precise Shot(3rd)[c], Rapid Shot[c](5th), Target of Opportunity[c](7th), Improved Share Spells(9th),
Bonus Feats(Magus): Clustered Shots[c](8th)
Feats(WarPriest): Exotic WP [Hornbow, orc][c](1st), Skill Focus(1st), Eldritch Heritage[Arcane](3rd), Precise Shot[c](5th), Target of Opportunity[c](7th), Improved Share Spells(9th),
Bonus Feats (WarPriest): Weapon Focus [hornbow](3rd), Point Blank Shot[c](5th), Clustered Shots[c](8th), Rapid Shot[c](11th)
Feats(Inquisitor): Exotic WP [Hornbow, orc][c](1st), Skill Focus(1st), Eldritch Heritage[Arcane](3rd), Point Blank Shot[c](5th), Precise Shot(7th)[c], Clustered Shots[c](9th), Rapid Shot[c](11th)
Bonus Feats (Inquisitor): Volley Fire(5th), Target of Opportunity(8th), Coordinated Shot[c](11th), Enfilading Fire[c](14th)
Feats(Monk): Exotic WP [Hornbow, orc][c](1st), Skill Focus(1st), Eldritch Heritage[Arcane](3rd),
Target of Opportunity[c](5th), Clustered Shots[c](7th),Deadly Aim[c](9th)[c], Volley Fire[c](11th)
Bonus Feats (Monk): Perfect Strike[c](3rd), Point Blank Shot[c](3rd), Weapon Focus[c](2nd), Precise Shot[c](2nd), Point Blank Master[c](3rd), Imp. Precise Shot[c](8th), Weapon Specialization[c](8th), Shot on the Run[c](12th), Pinpoint Targeting[c](16th), Parting Shot[c](20th)
Feats(Bloodrager): Weapon Focus(Longbow)[c](1st), Skill Focus(1st), Eldritch Heritage[Arcane](3rd), Point Blank Shot[c](5th), Precise Shot(7th)[c], Clustered Shots[c](9th), Rapid Shot[c](11th), Improved Share Spells(13th)
Advanced Weapon Training: Focused Weapon(Hornbow)
Suggested Feats: Victory Through Unity, Improved Precise Shot, Circuitous Shot, Deadly Aim, Far Shot, Opening Volley, Relentless Shot, Shot on the Run, Snap Shot, Volley Fire, Weapon Specialization, Weapon Versatility
That's the class that I am working with on my build currently. Unfortunately a lot of the feats you are taking as a rider don't really help with your mount. Still, full fighter hp and BAB makes for a solid mount.
yeah, that makes sense. It would probably work better if you also had 2 animal companions/mounts and then your familiar could make use of all the mounted feats by riding around on your secondary animal companion. Of course at that point you're not using a dragonfly anymore, you'd be stuck with something like a raccoon since it has hands which limits the amount of justification required to a DM.
The archetype works better when the familiar can fight the same way you do, which isn't quite how mount builds work.
Ride-by attack on you and fly-by attack on the familiar doesn't work. To use ride-by you need to take the charge action, which requires your mount to do the same, which rules out fly-by.
Mounted skirmisher or readying an attack works but doesn't protect you from AoOs. Escape route if you're able to share teamwork feats or have solo tactics/fighter's tactics works for that part. Or being invisible or something of course.
Actually about a million spells help but they would be best once you have improved spell sharing or improved share spells. The former's level 10 minimum though and the latter requires sharing a teamwork feat which isn't a combat feat.
Lord KailisI like your build idea/s.
I have an idea or 2 that might work into some of the builds.
One owes it's origin to a build I saw which involved taking one level of Magus, some in Wizard and some in Fighter then going into Eldritch Knight. The point being that you can use your Magus ability to use spells and attack with any spell on the Magus list. It does not need to be a Magus spell. This will slow down getting into Arcane Archer by a level though.
You can easily qualify for a familiar twice with this build. I am pretty sure there is a rule that says you can only have one familiar and what happens is the levels stack. However, there is a 3rd party feat called extra familiar, you need to be a Witch and your GM must let you use it, but it is an idea.
Finally, Eldritch Scion is a Magus Archetype that uses Cha as the casting stat. That means little in itself but it means you can take a 2 level dip into Paladin instead of 2 levels of fighter. That gives benefits, especially adding your Cha mod to saves, which is a huge consideration.
Thoughts?
Lord KailisI like your build idea/s.
I have an idea or 2 that might work into some of the builds.
One owes it's origin to a build I saw which involved taking one level of Magus, some in Wizard and some in Fighter then going into Eldritch Knight. The point being that you can use your Magus ability to use spells and attack with any spell on the Magus list. It does not need to be a Magus spell. This will slow down getting into Arcane Archer by a level though.
You can easily qualify for a familiar twice with this build. I am pretty sure there is a rule that says you can only have one familiar and what happens is the levels stack. However, there is a 3rd party feat called extra familiar, you need to be a Witch and your GM must let you use it, but it is an idea.
I generally try to stay away from 3rd party material in my builds since it would require special DM permission. For the same reason I try to stay away from builds that use alternate rules like VMC and word casting. I figure that if I can make something work without these things then if I run into a situation where they are options I could simply modify one of my existing builds. If the build is just trying to get multiple familiars there are easier methods. Since for the cost of just 3 feats I could have 2 familiars independent of any classes I'm taking. If one of those classes I'm taking already normally grants a familiar then I can get away with 1 to 2 feats depending on what I'm after. This is much better then delaying caster level via multi-classing. You are correct that outside of the 3rd party feat you can only have 1 familiar. This is because everything that grants a familiar stacks with anything else that grants you a familiar.
If you're curious about the feats they are
skill focus[any knowledge] + Eldritch Heritage[Arcane]
Wasp Familiar
there is also the familiar bond chain but it requires 3 feats
Iron Will + Familiar Bond + Improved Familiar Bond
Finally, Eldritch Scion is a Magus Archetype that uses Cha as the casting stat. That means little in itself but it means you can take a 2 level dip into Paladin instead of 2 levels of fighter. That gives benefits, especially adding your Cha mod to saves, which is a huge consideration.
Thoughts?
Paladin dips while powerful carry an alignment tax with them. So, I don't tend to go for them since it feels like it arbitrarily limits my options. For martial characters it's ok to multiclass to go after a grab bag of abilities, but IMO it's not worth it for a caster to multiclass unless it's to pick up a build defining ability (like eldritch guardian to share feats with your familiar) since it means your access to higher level spells is delayed.
Scion lowers how many spells you get per day which seems like a pretty bad deal since a magus can blow through their spells really fast (at least that was my experience with my 10th level magus cohort). You even give up your zero level spells which is terrible since that's an easy way for a magus to still get an extra attack once they are out of spells. Maybe the bloodrager bloodline makes up for it but I think the reason to get those is so you can cast a spell for free when you "rage" which means you'll be blowing through your very limited spells even faster.
It's probably impressive for a combat or two, but it seems likely that's as many as you can do before you'd have to rest.
Since for the cost of just 3 feats I could have 2 familiars independent of any classes I'm taking. If one of those classes I'm taking already normally grants a familiar then I can get away with 1 to 2 feats depending on what I'm after. This is much better then delaying caster level via multi-classing. You are correct that outside of the 3rd party feat you can only have 1 familiar. This is because everything that grants a familiar stacks with anything else that grants you a familiar.
If you're curious about the feats they are
skill focus[any knowledge] + Eldritch Heritage[Arcane]
Wasp Familiarthere is also the familiar bond chain but it requires 3 feats
Iron Will + Familiar Bond + Improved Familiar Bond
I don't believe either of these feat trains will work to give you more than one familiar with a familiar gained from a class. The wording of the rules are-
"Familiar Bond
You have learned a ritual that allows you to gain a familiar.
Prerequisite(s): Iron Will.
Benefit(s): You gain a familiar, as the wizard arcane bond class feature. You do not gain the special ability the familiar normally grants its master, and the familiar does not gain the deliver touch spells, scry on familiar, share spells, speak with animals of its kind, or spell resistance special abilities. Otherwise, your total Hit Dice are used as your wizard level for determining the familiar’s abilities.
Special: If you have (or later gain) levels in a class that grants a familiar, whenever you select a familiar, you can either base your familiar’s abilities on your total Hit Dice per this feat (including the restrictions on its special abilities), or choose to apply only your levels in classes that grant a familiar (and thus gain all the special abilities that familiar would grant based on those class levels). You can never have more than one familiar."
"Arcane Bond (Su): At 1st level, you gain an arcane bond, as a wizard equal to your sorcerer level. Your sorcerer levels stack with any wizard levels you possess when determining the powers of your familiar or bonded object. Once per day, your bonded item allows you to cast any one of your spells known (unlike a wizard’s bonded item, which allows him to cast any one spell in his spellbook). This ability does not allow you to have both a familiar and a bonded item."
However, if you follow the strict wording, if you take both then at least arguably you will get 2 familiars, simply because you don't get either from a class.
The arguably comes from the words in the feat "You can never have more than one familiar."
Incidentally, you can get to Improved Arcane Bond with one feat and this trait-
"House of Green Mothers Pupil (Magic)
You studied at a center for druidic magic long enough to begin bonding with a familiar.
Benefit You gain a +1 trait bonus on Handle Animal checks. You may substitute this trait for Iron Will as the prerequisite for the Familiar Bond feat. "
And you can sort of economise a feat in the eldritch heritage route by being a half elf, when you get a skill focus for free at character creation.
I don't believe either of these feat trains will work to give you more than one familiar with a familiar gained from a class.
??
Isn't that what I said?
looking at the extra familiar feat I see the source of confusion. I thought the feat extra familiar just gave you the ability to have a second familiar (like pack lord does for animal companions). So, I figured you would still need a way to gain a second familiar progression outside of that feat.
yes, I am well aware that they stack.
Incidentally, you can get to Improved Arcane Bond with one feat and this trait-
"House of Green Mothers Pupil (Magic)
You studied at a center for druidic magic long enough to begin bonding with a familiar.
Benefit You gain a +1 trait bonus on Handle Animal checks. You may substitute this trait for Iron Will as the prerequisite for the Familiar Bond feat. "
Interesting, I hadn't seen that trait. It helps, but 1 to 2 feats is still better then 2 feats and a trait.
And you can sort of economise a feat in the eldritch heritage route by being a half elf, when you get a skill focus for free at character creation.
yep, and you can economize even further by being a human and taking Focused study. It turns your bonus feat into skill focusx3.
I don't believe either of these feat trains will work to give you more than one familiar with a familiar gained from a class.??
Isn't that what I said?
looking at the extra familiar feat I see the source of confusion. I thought the feat extra familiar just gave you the ability to have a second familiar (like pack lord does for animal companions). So, I figured you would still need a way to gain a second familiar progression outside of that feat.
yes, I am well aware that they stack.
I misunderstood your earlier post.
And Focused Study is also a fine idea.