Serpent Lasers, could they compete really?


General Discussion

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

I was reading through some long arms and I can across the Aspis Consortium gem that is Serpent Lasers. I love the flavor text for this but was disappointed by the stats. With 2/1 usage pretty much across the board how does this really undercut competitors? Between levels 5-8 yeah I see the price difference...But the battery usage alone requires you to carry a bulk of batteries for a meager number of shots.

Surely not every item needs to be used from our growing array of weaponry, but at least change the usage to something like 2/.5. Sure it only doubles the amount of shots but it also makes it worth a little more consideration then a joke item. As it is all I can see it being is a Laser Musket for a rather bad space pirate. Heck, a Mechanic can't even boost the damage with Overcharge because it requires three times the charges.


I kinda feel like it being a joke weapon was the entire point, given it's own flavor text describes it as being meant to drive up the sale of batteries, and even gives it the in-universe nickname of the "snakebite laser". That said, while it is a horrible main weapon (and the level 2 and level 17 versions should just not be used ever) the fact that it is so much cheaper than the equivalent Laser Rifle (for every version but 2 and 17) and gives you access to similar (or even equivalent) damage often a level earlier means that if you have access to free recharges (which many do) then some classes (Solarion and Vanguard come to mind) might find the levels 5 and 8 versions to be useful backup ranged weapons. Especially since 40-charge batteries should be not-uncommon loot and don't exactly sell for much.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
Shinigami02 wrote:
I kinda feel like it being a joke weapon was the entire point, given it's own flavor text describes it as being meant to drive up the sale of batteries, and even gives it the in-universe nickname of the "snakebite laser". That said, while it is a horrible main weapon (and the level 2 and level 17 versions should just not be used ever) the fact that it is so much cheaper than the equivalent Laser Rifle (for every version but 2 and 17) and gives you access to similar (or even equivalent) damage often a level earlier means that if you have access to free recharges (which many do) then some classes (Solarion and Vanguard come to mind) might find the levels 5 and 8 versions to be useful backup ranged weapons. Especially since 40-charge batteries should be not-uncommon loot and don't exactly sell for much.

There is also the level three fusion that will save your shot if you miss. Just about the only to redeem those mid range rifles. The musket idea could be a fun joke build...Use an envoy for the free reload on himself and a soldier...a Technomancer or even a future Witch Warper could boost the damage.


Good for a home defense weapon where you only plan on shooting once?


Could you use the manufacturing fusion to overcome the limitation?

Quote:


SFS Legal Manufacturing
Source Pact Worlds pg. 195
Item Level 4
Followers of the Prophecies of Kalistrade use manufacturing weapon fusions to ensure they are never without ammunition (or gouged by isolated traders for ammunition), even on long trade missions. This fusion often makes the weapon pearly white with gold accents. You can add up to 400 credits of UPBs to a manufacturing weapon as a swift action. When you do, the fusion’s magic instantly manufactures ammunition inside the weapon worth an equal amount (which might mean recharging a battery) up to the maximum the weapon can carry. This ammunition is nonmagical and can be removed normally.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Good for a home defense weapon where you only plan on shooting once?

Do you plan to defend your home only against invaders who are several CR lower than you? Because otherwise you’re definitely firing multiple times.

Dark Archive

I mean, story wise if you shoot someone and it hits, it dies :P HP is pretty much "Meta currency for avoiding fatal injuries", that is the whole basis of coup de grace in pathfinder, you stab someone in vital organs/neck/etc. You can't survive actual hit to heart/brain or beheading in pathfinder without having explicit special ability to it, its just assumed if you didn't die you didn't get hit anywhere important.

Sooo from in universe perspective CR don't exist and presumably whoever the robbers coming in to rob you should die from one hit. If they aren't robbers, well home defense weapons won't ever be enough anyway :p


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
CorvusMask wrote:

I mean, story wise if you shoot someone and it hits, it dies :P HP is pretty much "Meta currency for avoiding fatal injuries", that is the whole basis of coup de grace in pathfinder, you stab someone in vital organs/neck/etc. You can't survive actual hit to heart/brain or beheading in pathfinder without having explicit special ability to it, its just assumed if you didn't die you didn't get hit anywhere important.

Sooo from in universe perspective CR don't exist and presumably whoever the robbers coming in to rob you should die from one hit. If they aren't robbers, well home defense weapons won't ever be enough anyway :p

Although of course that falls apart as soon as we get into anything environmental. Unless of course the ground didn't actually hit you or the lava you are swimming in avoids you for a moment.


Malk_Content wrote:
Although of course that falls apart as soon as we get into anything environmental. Unless of course the ground didn't actually hit you or the lava you are swimming in avoids you for a moment.

That's why it makes just Stamina damage :P

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Good for a home defense weapon where you only plan on shooting once?

But you have to use a good one liner though. Something like..."I only need one shot..."

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
Claxon wrote:

Could you use the manufacturing fusion to overcome the limitation?

Quote:


SFS Legal Manufacturing
Source Pact Worlds pg. 195
Item Level 4
Followers of the Prophecies of Kalistrade use manufacturing weapon fusions to ensure they are never without ammunition (or gouged by isolated traders for ammunition), even on long trade missions. This fusion often makes the weapon pearly white with gold accents. You can add up to 400 credits of UPBs to a manufacturing weapon as a swift action. When you do, the fusion’s magic instantly manufactures ammunition inside the weapon worth an equal amount (which might mean recharging a battery) up to the maximum the weapon can carry. This ammunition is nonmagical and can be removed normally.

I guess it would be like dumping money in a more literal sense into the gun? Haha. From how I read it I don't know if I could "overload" using UPBS. i.e banking UPB's and letting it manufacture as needed? Sounds like just paying the cost for the clip. Conserving might beat it on usage.

Item Level 3
Weapons with the conserving fusion preserve their ammunition and charges after a miss. When you miss with a ranged attack roll, your charge or ammunition is not consumed, as though the weapon had never been fired. This fusion does not prevent your weapon from malfunctioning or breaking as a consequence of your attack. Only weapons that use arrows, batteries, darts, flares, grenade arrows, mini-rockets, rounds, or scattergun shells as ammunition can benefit from a conserving fusion.

Dark Archive

Malk_Content wrote:
CorvusMask wrote:

I mean, story wise if you shoot someone and it hits, it dies :P HP is pretty much "Meta currency for avoiding fatal injuries", that is the whole basis of coup de grace in pathfinder, you stab someone in vital organs/neck/etc. You can't survive actual hit to heart/brain or beheading in pathfinder without having explicit special ability to it, its just assumed if you didn't die you didn't get hit anywhere important.

Sooo from in universe perspective CR don't exist and presumably whoever the robbers coming in to rob you should die from one hit. If they aren't robbers, well home defense weapons won't ever be enough anyway :p

Although of course that falls apart as soon as we get into anything environmental. Unless of course the ground didn't actually hit you or the lava you are swimming in avoids you for a moment.

Yeah, that is the kinda issue with abstract HP systems, unless stuff like lava is just insta kill, it kinda gets into either super hero logic "They can survive for a while as long they get away" or we just have to assume those magical protection stuff work really well even on level 20 character without equipment :p


Malk_Content wrote:
CorvusMask wrote:

I mean, story wise if you shoot someone and it hits, it dies :P HP is pretty much "Meta currency for avoiding fatal injuries", that is the whole basis of coup de grace in pathfinder, you stab someone in vital organs/neck/etc. You can't survive actual hit to heart/brain or beheading in pathfinder without having explicit special ability to it, its just assumed if you didn't die you didn't get hit anywhere important.

Sooo from in universe perspective CR don't exist and presumably whoever the robbers coming in to rob you should die from one hit. If they aren't robbers, well home defense weapons won't ever be enough anyway :p

Although of course that falls apart as soon as we get into anything environmental. Unless of course the ground didn't actually hit you or the lava you are swimming in avoids you for a moment.

Important characters always land on the floating rocks while the redshirts go directly into the magma

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
Justin-Norveg wrote:
Malk_Content wrote:
CorvusMask wrote:

I mean, story wise if you shoot someone and it hits, it dies :P HP is pretty much "Meta currency for avoiding fatal injuries", that is the whole basis of coup de grace in pathfinder, you stab someone in vital organs/neck/etc. You can't survive actual hit to heart/brain or beheading in pathfinder without having explicit special ability to it, its just assumed if you didn't die you didn't get hit anywhere important.

Sooo from in universe perspective CR don't exist and presumably whoever the robbers coming in to rob you should die from one hit. If they aren't robbers, well home defense weapons won't ever be enough anyway :p

Although of course that falls apart as soon as we get into anything environmental. Unless of course the ground didn't actually hit you or the lava you are swimming in avoids you for a moment.
Important characters always land on the floating rocks while the redshirts go directly into the magma

My local red shirt player would disagree, sometimes they're the only ones who land. Haha


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Starfinder basically *does* use superhero rules, so honestly, I have no issue with "the level 15 character really is sufficiently durable than they can shrug off a few rounds in the lava".


And I mean why not? This is a game where losing an arm or leg really is just a flesh wound, potentially not even piercing Stamina damage. Heck, some races you have to lop off a limb 6 times to properly disarm them.


They do pack a fair bit of punch for their item level though don't they? They look pretty good for a mystic who's rounding out the rounds between casting haste and finishing the boss off with a mind blast.


Heh, As a technomancer who accidentally made this gun appear in his hand using fabricate arms, I was super irritated when I realized what I'd done. Still, it faded soon enough and I only got two shots off with it anyway. It's a gag gun, and I find that hilarious


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

As other people have said, I'm fairly certain that Serpent lasers aren't meant to be the most sensible weapons, being just another scheme by the Aspis Consortium.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
Simeon wrote:
As other people have said, I'm fairly certain that Serpent lasers aren't meant to be the most sensible weapons, being just another scheme by the Aspis Consortium.

Which seems weird to me so far. As far as I know this is the most underhanded thing they do...It's not like Pathfinder where the compete for ancient sites, magical doodads, trading of illicit goods. In fact iteration 177 (number?) has been most helpful to the society so far. He does seem to be holding certain cards we don't know of though.


He is protecting their assets. Having a group like the Society on your good side is likely good for business. And I'm sure plenty of people realize their mistake and get partial refunds. Partial. And those that don't... well, those that don't return them likely ran out of ammo when they needed more than 2 shots.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
Garfaulk Sharpstone wrote:
He is protecting their assets. Having a group like the Society on your good side is likely good for business. And I'm sure plenty of people realize their mistake and get partial refunds. Partial. And those that don't... well, those that don't return them likely ran out of ammo when they needed more than 2 shots.

Maybe it is just me but if I was out purchasing a laser rifle I would ask about number of shots/battery usage. I guess the vendor could always lie though. This item may of been better off being in a low level adventure as evidence.

"Look at what our investigation brought up! The Consortium has been altering common laser weapons and selling them to new Starfinders/new gullible race."


Only slightly off topic:

The company I work for got a great deal on replacement desktop printers some months ago.

They have just recently realized that the toner cartridges cost 4x the amount as the ones for the printers they replaced.

So… yeah, serpent laser shenanigans happen, man. Just be smart, and remember, loose lips sink ships. Don’t help the Huns.


Yeah I've seen plenty of examples of ineptitude in companies like the above.

Someone looks at widget A vs widget B and says, "Hey, these both do the same thing but A costs 20% more than B."

But what that person didn't look at was the operating cost of B was 40% more than A.

Another printer example that demonstrates this well is laser vs inkjet. Inkjet printer can cost less than $100. The cost for a base level laser that doesn't do color can be in the $500 range. And the laser cartridges can be $100 vs $20 for ink cartridge. But where the difference really comes in, is the number of pages it can print.

Ultimately, the laser jet can have a price per page that's 1/2 that of the ink jet. For businesses, that's huge. Your business can make up the price difference on the printer quickly, depending on how much you're printing.

Sovereign Court

Serpent laser printers?

Silver Crusade

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