I'm going to be joining the Rise of the Runelords AP at 4th level. The group currently has a Paladin, an Oracle, a Ranger and a Wizard.
The Wizard is leaving, and I'm joining together with another player that is going as a Sorcerer.
The DM has spoken, and we're only allowed to use Core, APG, Ultimate Magic, Inner Sea World Guide and the Rise of the Runelords Player's Guide, obviously.
I was thinking of just building a melee, and trying out horse combat. So I went to a Barbarian, obviously. But a Human Barb would be too polarizing, I'd either destroy most combats, or be a subpar melee character(as built for mounted combat).
Now, I was reading the player guide, and it said Mounts probably won't get used on the dungeons themselves, but I suppose that means Large mounts, which brings us to....
Small characters can go Mounted with Medium mounts so it shouldn't be that hard, and I can do my "thing" often enough, but I'm not going to be demolishing like the human barbarian would either, and that's exactly what I want.
I want to improve this, and plan where to go after this, until about lvl 10, but I want to keep it Gnome AND Barbarian(maybe 1 dip or something, if it's REALLY GOOD). Mounted combat is heavily preferred, but I just want to make him the best gnome barbarian I know he can be.
STR 16 DEX 14 CON 16 INT 7 WIS 11 CHA 9 (After racials)
Gnome Barbarian(Mounted Fury) 5 CN
Traits: Indomitable Faith and Outlander (Exile)
1:Mounted Combat
2:Beast Totem, Lesser
3:Ride-by Attack
4:Reckless Abandon
Beast totem is building up for Pounce, and I don't know what else to plan for besides Spirited Charge and Power Attack.
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In some other AP, where it's possible to bring your Large mount into the dungeons, here's one whacky way to optimize an axe beak mount. This won't do you any good in this case. I suggest it only for comparison and inspiration.
Do keep in mind that the extra damage from Spirited Charge/Lance only applies to your first attack when pouncing, not all of them.
Also, you should ask your GM about allowing the Boon Companion feat, because your mount will just be a sad, bloody puddle at the end of every combat if it's stuck at your level -4.
If I recall correctly, you only get the bonuses for charging to the first attack at all, even when pouncing.
It was a direct response to the rage lance pounce build of yesteryear.
Edit: I found the FAQ
Lance: If I have the pounce ability and I charge with a lance, do my iterative lance attacks get the lance's extra damage multiplier from charging?
No, it doesn’t makes sense that those iterative attacks gain the damage bonus. To make that second attack, you have to pull the lance back and stab forward again, and that stab doesn’t have the benefit of the charge’s momentum. (The Core Rulebook doesn’t state that you only get the damage multiplier on the first attack with a lance because when the Core Rulebook was published, there was no way for a PC to charge and get multiple attacks with a weapon in the same round, so that combination didn’t need to be addressed.)posted March 2012 | back to top
So no bonus damage from charging on your extra attacks from pounce.
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STR 18 DEX 14 CON 14 INT 7 WIS 11 CHA 7 10 pt buy
STR 16 DEX 14 CON 16 INT 7 WIS 11 CHA 9 (After racials)
That's point-buy gimp-building: You bumped the racially-dumped stat, and dumped the racially-bumped stat.
Without a Con of at least 15, you're ineligible for the Raging Vitality feat, without which your raging barbarian will instantly die the moment he's ever struck unconscious going below 0hp at 4th/5th/6th or thereabouts (and, since you're not a half-orc, you can't avoid that unconsciousness). The only solution is to either bump your Con at 4th, or make Con your first belt upgrade, or have the gods own luck perpetually avoiding getting hit with rage-dumped armor-class. Will-save is of course horrid because the build robbed points from everywhere to pay for that 18>16 in strength which then can't be raised or belt-pimped due to the aforementioned pressing problem of Sudden Barbarian Death Syndrome.
Try a Braggart Knight (gnome version) instead, and that build works here because Gendarme is from Ultimate Combat, the same Mounted Fury barbarian archetype is used as here, and Order of the Cockatrice, Raging Vitality, and Reckless Abandon are all APG. (Indomitable Mount and the traits will have to go, and I'm not sure what book Boon Companion first appeared in.) Despite an apparently much lower strength, that build works better due to a built-in debuff and having Challenge, as well as gaining Mount as a class-feature at 2nd (straight-class Mounted Fury will have trouble keeping store-bought animals alive at 3rd and 4th). ACP in plate while mounted is zero. Lastly, enjoying 5 skill points per level is a lot better than 2.
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@Magda
I will keep it in mind if my sandbox character dies I guess. I should start working on a backup....
@Claxon and Wonderstell
Yeah, I already searched a bit to see what I could find, and I was already aware of that rule. Still pretty good damage
@Slim Jim
You even quoted it yourself, I'm starting with 16 CON after racials, my SavTech Raging man.
Sadly, Ultimate Combat isn't allowed, but I will try and talk to DM to see if Boon Companion can go through anyway.(or some other way to help my Wolf? Riding needs)
Curious why your GM would allow Ultimate Magic (home of synthesist summoner of all things, and your players probably have the pre-errata dope 1st edition printing) but not Ultimate Combat, which is actually fairly tame (aside from Wild Rager, which no party in their right mind permits in their midst).
At least Extra Rage is in the CRB, so you'd be OK as a barb1or2/cavalierX.
He wants us to run with what they used when wotking on Rise of the Runelords.
"This product makes use of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook, Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player’s Guide, Pathfinder RPG Bestiary, Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 2, Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 3, Pathfinder RPG GameMastery Guide, Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Magic and Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea World Guide."
Oh. DERP. I was totally thinking something else when I typed the title. Yeah, it's a Gnome Barbarian.
I'm not that knowledgeable about Companions/Mounts/Leadership rules, but I probably will take that, unless I can get some other way to work around it.
If I recall correctly, you only get the bonuses for charging to the first attack at all, even when pouncing.
It was a direct response to the rage lance pounce build of yesteryear.
Edit: I found the FAQ
omittedSo no bonus damage from charging on your extra attacks from pounce.
I've always been under the impression that natural attack pounces would get the bonuses for charging on all attacks, as that FAQ seemed to deliberately nerf manufactured weapons. Has there been any discussion about whether or not a tiger would get the +2 charge bonus on all of its Pounce attacks?
As far as I know, there is no FAQ that covers anything other than lance attacks explicitly combined with charge. I think it's the only one addressed since it provides a significant damage bonus. The attack bonus is less concerning.
However, if you ask my opinion, the subsequent attacks probably shouldn't benefit from it. But that's just an opinion, and merely gleaned as an extension of my understanding of the earlier quoted FAQ.
Dip a level of Sohei and take Mounted Skirmisher as the monk bonus feat.
I'm a bit confused.
A completely natural reaction, it is mounted combat.
So why does it matter if the character can pounce or not? The mount is charging, the character riding is not charging.
Here's the last paragraph you quoted:
"If your mount charges, you also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge. When charging on horseback, you deal double damage with a lance (see Charge)."
The character riding is absolutely charging. Says so right there.
Yeah, Bestiary 1~3 is allowed.
I don't think it helps more than gnome I guess, but I can see it working.
Dip a level of Sohei and take Mounted Skirmisher as the monk bonus feat
For lvl 5 or later?
And what feat should I get at lvl 5 if Boon Companion is out?
The bonuses to attack rolls apply on all attacks made during a charge, the lances/spirited charges special damage boost is only applied on the 1st attack with the lance.
That is not explicitly covered in the wording of the FAQ I quoted, but definitely doesn't feel like the intention.
Has this ever been covered with pounce in general and whether or not the bonus applies?
The bonuses to attack rolls apply on all attacks made during a charge, the lances/spirited charges special damage boost is only applied on the 1st attack with the lance.That is not explicitly covered in the wording of the FAQ I quoted, but definitely doesn't feel like the intention.
Has this ever been covered with pounce in general and whether or not the bonus applies?
Well, the whole idea with Pounce was that they needed some mechanic to emulate how animals such as a lion charges and bites down while clawing.
This doesn't translate well to manufactured weapons, because you "have to pull the lance back and stab forward again, and that stab doesn’t have the benefit of the charge’s momentum."So I believe that the intention is for manufactured pounces to only get the benefits of a charge on your first attack, as the other stabs "doesn't have the benefit of the charge's momentum". I'd however argue that you'd get your charge attack bonus on your first two attacks if you're TWF-ing.
Natural pounces uses different weapons for each attack (usually), which means that there's no loss of the charge's momentum since all attacks "happen simultaneously". So the tiger would get +2 on all its charge attacks.
I agree that would be a reasonable way to run it, but I'm not sure if there are any rules that explain how it is run.
Per monk in general, no he doesn't.Dip a level of Sohei and take Mounted Skirmisher as the monk bonus feat.Interesting. Doesn't the Sohei need to meet the prerequisites of the Mounted Combat feats he takes?
Also if the character goes 2 levels into Sohei and then 5 levels into Fighter, does the fighter's Weapon Training give the character the ability to flurry with a lance due to the Sohei's Weapon Training ability? The same with other classes versions of Weapon Training?
Yes. You could also be a Sohei6 and get Weapon Training as well as enjoy other abilities that monk provides (Ki, etc).