No Magic, Alchemy Only, Final Destination


Advice


So I've got a game next week that I need some help choosing equipment for.

As the title says, there is no magic in this setting but alchemy is kosher.

We are starting level 4, with appropriate wealth. I am a half-orc slayer, vanguard archetype, that will be dipping into Barbarian starting level 8. This is a demon/devil heavy campaign, and special materials are allowed.

Anyone got suggestions for my shopping list?


for sure the ....i dont' remember the name now.
Impact Foam? Impact Vial?

Its an alchemical item that you can throw while falling and it shaves off falling damage basically. Very useful with no magic.

As are Air Bladders for folks with low swim ability.

and Air Crystals for both bad at and great at. Much utility.

There are a ton of amazing alchemical items though. so you'd be better served reading through the listing on AoN. (archives of netheys)

Ah. i guess troll ungent is good for you too. healing stuff.

Holy water of course, more so if anyone is using that sprinkler weapon


What about Divine Magic? Magic Items? What about magic items that can be made by Alchemists?


Scott Wilhelm wrote:
What about Divine Magic? Magic Items? What about magic items that can be made by Alchemists?

No magic means no magic, no ifs not buts no coconuts


Reanimating fluid would be hilarious or used as a great distraction, especially if you use it on guards that you killed.

As for Armor and Weapons, there are non-magical modifications you can do, which more or less cost about the same as a +1 magical enhancement.
The only down side is that there is usually only 1 modification on a weapon or armor.


The usual Cold Iron and Silver weapons. Grab some Adamantine Tinctures if you have left over cash laying around. 2 Healers kits.

Some extra canvas, rations and a cart. Set up a good camp somewhere close to where you expect to be adventuring. Make sure you take the time to hide the camp. Hang your supplies to where normal animals can't get to them. If you get injured this leaves you a safe spot to retreat to for natural healing.

You might want to check with the GM if you can draw a magic circle and what materials it would take. That might keep demons and devils from crossing the circle. maybe.


Make sure to have an actual alchemist with infusion. Or at least an investigator.


Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:
Make sure to have an actual alchemist with infusion. Or at least an investigator.

I'm not sure Alchemists are allowed:

[quote Opuk0] No magic means no magic, no ifs not buts no coconuts

He said Alchemy is okay, but he didn't say the Alchemist character class is. Alchemists definitely work magic, and he said no magic.


Might want to look at some stuff like REagents, from the Alchemical Manual. I think some of those have light effects if you just eat them?
Might want to look up Ultimate Intrigues' Alchemical Burn/ Inspiration and see your GM's thoughts on that. And the quick alchemy from Alchemical Guide

Onto a good list of things i like. with bad formatting. Sorry:

Air Crystals. (free O2!)
Antidotes Antiplague, anti toxin. These are rough without magic.
Consider the Ward Gels (like fire ward gel)
Currative Myrrh. Helps mundane healing.
Medditation Tea.
Troll stypic. For healing.
Vermin Repellent might? help with swarms depending on the GM
Maybe Vivifying Moxibustion Needles for helping with various "its arough world" saves

Alchemcial Glue,
that cement stuff.
Smoke STicks
Smoke pellet possibly
Sun Rods for sure are hella useful.
Tinderwigs. very useful.
Weapon blanches.
Water purifyer
You'd be surprised how useful Defoliant is. both story wise and combat
Phosphorescent gel. Quite uesful as well. Combos nicely with

Blasting Jelly for a timed "explosion" Say.. timing blowing a bridge or a door. Or as a distraction to attack/sneak in.

I love Blasting Jelly. Quite a lot of interesting uses and traps
i think its good to have some Pressure pils. I've used it far less than air crystals. But the times I did use it, I bypassed a lot of the planned pathing and snuck in weird places nicely. Also its just great for the awkward "ancint water trap drops a lake on you"

Red Flame Torch. Something most folks don't know. but damn is it nice for mundane no night vision folks.

Thunder Kettle.. but really only useful for the hilarity of sneaking it into an enemy camp. Not really useful otehrwise just mentioning for the hilarity.

Going to use that kettle as a segue too. You probably weren't thinking of alchemical weapons but they're useful
I will skip the obvious ones like Acid being cheap and good to have for swarms. Alch fire for DoT/making them waste actions.

Acid Neturalizer. You don't want to lose your weapons to an acid creature.
Alkali Flask. Anotehr good anti ooze bit. If you have teh cash. I tend to carry these instead of acid.

Corrosenze: reduce energy resistances. or make them waste a round. Not the most useful in a no magic but worth mentioning
Incendiary Catalyst. adds fire weakness. not as useful in no magic but worth mentioning
Though I suppoes with some prep, the aboves can be used to "team combo" with pellet, fuse, alch/acid for a decent bit. But not really money smart.

Tress Tincture. Makes their hair grow long-giving everyone else concealment. Unless they spend swift to mitigate it or full round to stop it. Can also be used to help a quick disguise.

Dung Grenade: light damage and sickened on hit. Likely will still be sickened even if saved for at least 1 round.

Pellet Grenades: I love these. Not terribly expensive, except when you buy in adamantine or cold iron etc. But they've got fair few damage values, and are an AoE. Which you'll probably have in short supply. Also fun with the previouly mentioned explosives.

Shard Gel. Instant Caltrops at range. Extra points if you mix poisons into it when you make it (though this is semi GM territory.. Liquid Blade allows you to prepoison-and shard gels are the same substance effectively)

Liquid Blade: Quite a handy hide out weapon if you have the profiency.

Smoke Pellet and/or their special versions (pepepr, smog, etc).
Tanglefoot bag. Nifty. can make them stuck or at least slow them down/make them waste an action.
Tangleburn bag. Same as above but costy.. but also burns well. I usually only plop one on the boss

Read the fireworks. Some are great to have, depends on the game.
Blanchbombs. Though the other way is far cheaper, but its still something to know about.
Arrow/Bolts


There are more. This is just stuff my alchemist has or still uses.
consider firearm and such too. Thats alchemy based. and in a world without magic, that'll be abit nicer.

As a weird sidenote. If you're going to be flush in alchemical items. Consider a syringe spear. Or my preference teh far more neat. Injection Spear. Though they're sorta weird rare finds.

Sidenote: I really wish they would make an Alchemist archetype that gives up Infusions.:

First it makes everything in the class EX instead of SU even bombs and the healing discovery.
It would be neat to gain some free Alchemical Items (I dunno some factor of Gold per lv used for alchemical items only. Would actually make poison purchasble too) that go bad in a day, and some generic enhancements to them. Like adding your INT to the DC or replacing the DC with yours, increasing damages, increasing healing.

Some sorta sketched outline for future proofing and just a big set of parameter boosters.

Wil it be worth the loss of infusions? Almost certainly not.
Would it be amazingly fun and have just all the cool flavor and make for a very interesting character class?
Hell yeah.

but I'm one of the players who just dislike Extracts. Alchemist (and or Occultist) are my favorite classes but I just don't like managing extracts (or prepped spells). I just get infusion and hand out party buffs each morning or just use for potions.


Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:
Make sure to have an actual alchemist with infusion. Or at least an investigator.

I'm not sure Alchemists are allowed:

[quote Opuk0] No magic means no magic, no ifs not buts no coconuts

He said Alchemy is okay, but he didn't say the Alchemist character class is. Alchemists definitely work magic, and he said no magic.

One could argue that since the alchmist's class feature is called alchemy it should apply.


Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:
Make sure to have an actual alchemist with infusion. Or at least an investigator.
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
I'm not sure Alchemists are allowed:
Opuk0 wrote:
No magic means no magic, no ifs not buts no coconuts
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
He said Alchemy is okay, but he didn't say the Alchemist character class is. Alchemists definitely work magic, and he said no magic.
Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:
One could argue that since the alchmist's class feature is called alchemy it should apply.

One could, but the only argument that matters is Opuk0's GM. Opuk0's language is quite harsh on the matter. You might be right.


For anyone mentioning the Alchemist class.

If the alchemist class were allowed, the entire party would be alchemists.


So, if you don't mind me asking, what does your character's final equipment load out look like?


After only a bit of help, this is what I have


I had been working on a Basic Alchemical Guide for a while now, but I've never gotten around to finishing it... I'll post some of my highlights right now for you though:

+ (Sounds like you're playing Homebrew?) Make sure to take points in Craft Alchemy to "purchase" your items by crafting them. This makes everything much cheaper and much more manageable in cost as long as you can reliably meet the Crafting DCs to craft them within a week of prep time. In PFS, only Alchemists and Investigators can use this - but this isn't PFS.

+ Also, if you plan on taking Herbs (a lot of them are very useful) make sure you take Profession: Herbology for grabbing good Herb items. Trust me, some of them are really good! (Enlarge Person/Reduce Person shrooms are my favorite).

+ Master Alchemist and Instant Alchemy are nearly essential. The former because there are Alchemical Items you simply cannot craft without it, and the later is because you'll never be able to get Swift Alchemy through a Class Feature. In PFS, Master Alchemist was restricted to Alchemist or Poisoner Rogue - Good thing this isn't PFS!

+ Throw Anything and Catch Off-Guard are nearly essential for the build. Additionally, Splash Weapon Mastery is required because almost all of your ranged weapons are going to have a pitiful 10ft. or 20ft. range to them without Spellcasting Support - so Far Shot for Splash Weapons is really nice, especially when you're only targeting touch.

+ Concentrated Splash allows you to use powerful Alchemical Weapons without hurting your melee teammates - and you get the plus side of receiving a 50% bonus to the damage dealt. Great for weapons like Slime Grenade and Artokus's Fire.

+ Firebug is a free +1 to your attacks with Splash Weapons. Trust me, you'll love it!

+ Alchemical Items SUCK as a form of control, don't grab items like Itching Powder or Sneezing Powder. Focus on the Alchemical Items that deal damage, provide buffs, or heal your party.

+ You're going to want the basic Nomage items - such as Impact Vials and Sunsticks - that mimic popular first level spells and/or cantrips. Make sure you have some emergency Antiplagues and Antivenoms due to the abscense of Cure Disease and Cure Poison spells respectively. Specialty smoke pellet is going to help with Invisible Creatures due to lack of Glitterdust. Basically - if the item mimics a useful spell, you'll want to grab a few of them.

+ A lot of Alchemical Weapons that have Splash Damage lack the Splash keyphrase, so ask your GM if they'll allow you to add the Splash keyphrase to these items (because they ARE Liquid and DO splash) so that they can be used with Hybridization Funnel.

+ Oh, Hybridization Funnel also helps with "magical" DPS at higher levels.

+ Suggested Alchemical Items:
* Troll styptic (100gp / 25 Check) is going to be your most cost effective healing without Magical Healing. Fast healing 2 for 2d4 rounds, but you'll have to succeed a DC 15 Fort Save or become sicken during the duration of the healing. Hint: This shouldn't be used during combat.
* Blood-Boiling Pill (75gp / 25 Check) This item gives a +2 Alchemical bonus to Initiative Checks and Saves vs. Cold effects for 8 hours or until you swallow a Blood-Chilling Pill. The only downside is that you take 1.5x damage from Bleeding attacks, so don't swallow the red pill if you're fighting enemies with bleed abilities.
* Alchemical Blanches/Balms (Varies / Varies) This isn't so much a single item, as it is a variable amount of multiple items which all help players overcome Damage Resistance early on. Without magic in your setting, this is going to be your only way of dealing with Incorpreal Creatures and other similarly "immune" effect Creatures.
* Alchemical Bombs/Weapons (Varies / Varies) Same as the listed above, this isn't a single weapon but multiple weapons. You're going to want to carry around the basics - Acid Flask, Alchemist Fire, Liquid Ice; and if you're real interested in them - Minneral Bombs, Artokus's Fire, and stuff like that.


If we really want to break into the semantic origins of Alchemy, one would find that it is itself magic since it's not real. Alchemy is not Chemistry. How are you guys healing without magic...?

I guess the no magic stipulations would rule out a hybridization funnel even though its only a 200gp item.

After maybe 1-4 levels, one would think that spending an action on fairly weak alchemical weapons would be a waste, but I guess would have some utility potential. A craft feats would help ya'll save some serious coins too (in which case, you'll want a portable lab).

Some drugs have serious penalties, and can be used offensively.
http://aonprd.com/Drugs.aspx?ItemName=All

o Medlance or Syringe spear for applications
o Burst jar is decent.
o Tunnel Creeper is a great breaking & entering or escape tool (though o pricey).
o Shard gel for caltrop stuff.
o Ghast retch flask grants no save on sickened
o Fungal Stun Vial has a decently high DC which is nice for low level

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / No Magic, Alchemy Only, Final Destination All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.