Okay, so I've joined a Living World, and it seems to be the kind where the GM goes hard (someone took 5 con damage in a 1st-level session), and the GM himself has massively optimized his character. However, I do wanna stick around, so I wanna make a character that will comfortably survive pretty much anything he throws at it, and be able to lay down the hurt themselves.
Obviously, that's why I'm posting here. There's plenty of homebrew stuff the world uses, as well as a few houserules, so I'm looking to create the most optimized character I can within these rules.
Mesmerist, Primalist Bloodrager, and the Butcher's Axe are all banned.
3pp includes: Path of War (Black Seraph and Brutal Slayer are banned), Legendary Fighter, Avowed, DSP Psionics, Bloodforge races, 3.5e Archivist, as well as all 3pp spells on the PFSRD.
Houserules are: A semi-EITR, races up to 25RP, goes up to level 25, Gestalt, full HD per level, and can trade level-up feats for ASIs, and vice-versa.
For personal preferences, I dislike prepared casters unless it's Arcanist-style, and I'd rather stick to a generally humanoid-looking race, but that's pretty much it.
Thanks for any help you give!
I've posted a lot of builds for very powerful characters, but nothing you brought up suggests to me any particular build for you.
What is a Living World in this context? How does this affect your game? Does this world speak Common? If you make a successful Diplomacy Check, can you cause earthquakes and tsunamis?
How does your GM have "a character?"
You don't want to play a Wizard or Cleric or something. Okay, so what kind of character do you want other than survivable?
A propos of survivability, I have character building methods for giving you high saves, a Miss Chance, DR, and Fast Healing at relatively low levels, but I would like to know more about what you want?
Do you want to be a good burglar?
Do you want a powerful Melee Full Attack?
Do you like shooting your enemies?
Do you want to be the party healer?
How do you feel about more exotic melee stuff like Tripping, Bull Rushing, Grappling, and Sneak Attack Daamge?
Further, I can say that to my experience that a character with aggressive strengths tends to also have aggressive weaknesses, but a character who isn't bad at anything is also good for nothing.
But, I think I need more to give more.
A Living World is basically Pathfinder (or another tabletop game) as an MMO. There's multiple GMs, each player can have more than one character, sessions usually aren't connected, and there's a lot of downtime.
The way it affects the game is that there is more than one GM, who all have characters, and the party is never consistent, and there will likely be multiple levels within a party. Skills also rarely come up outside the combat-applicable stuff like Acrobatics and Perception, it's usually just combat.
I prefer being the one doing the fighting, rather than support, and a skill-monkey isn't going to be of much use, so a burglar or healer are both out. I don't really have a preference between ranged and melee combat.
Starting from 1st level? Is retraining allowed?
Starting from 1st level, and retraining is allowed, yes.
Neetshot wrote: A Living World is basically Pathfinder (or another tabletop game) as an MMO. There's multiple GMs, each player can have more than one character, sessions usually aren't connected, and there's a lot of downtime.
The way it affects the game is that there is more than one GM, who all have characters, and the party is never consistent, and there will likely be multiple levels within a party. Skills also rarely come up outside the combat-applicable stuff like Acrobatics and Perception, it's usually just combat.
I prefer being the one doing the fighting, rather than support, and a skill-monkey isn't going to be of much use, so a burglar or healer are both out. I don't really have a preference between ranged and melee combat.
Would you rather do straight-up lots of melee damage, or do you prefer being tricksy?
Straight-up damage is more my thing, definitely. I love seeing those big numbers.
For archery, I was thinking something like this:
Half Orc
1Fighter1: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, uses an Orc Hornbow
2F1Ranger1: Freebooter Archetype
The Orc Hornbow does 2d6 Damage.
The Freebooter Archetype lets you mark any one opponent as a Move Action, and for the duration of the battle, or until you mark someone else, you and your allies all get +1 Attack and Damage. You get that instead of Favored Enemy.
Even a Level 1 Ranger can use Wands with Ranger Spells. I like Gravity Bow, which will cause your arrows to inflict damage as if they were 1 Size bigger, making your arrows do 3d6 base Damage.
The way I most like to develop Damage as an Archer from this point is as an Alchemist. A level 1 Alchemist can take a Dex Mutagen for a +2 to Attack. An Extract of Enlarge Person will make you bigger, so your arrows will do 4d6 Damage. Enlarged Arrows shrink back down to original size when fired. Mark Seifter shared a trick with me, though. Buy a quiver of Large Arrows. Drop them, then Enlarge, then shoot your Size Large Arrows, and now they do 4d6.
Another level in Alchemist with the Grenadier Archetype will let you attach Alchemal weapons such as Acid to your Arrows. The Explosive Missile Archetype will let you attach your Bombs to your arrows. By the time you reach level 4 Alchemist, your Arrows will be doing 7d6 Damage + any other bonuses like Strength. You will only be able to fire 1/round this way, but still. Deadly Aim is something you can't normally combine with Bombs, but you can if those Bombs are being delivered by arrows. You could switch to Marker Dye Arrows and deliver them as Ranged Touch Attacks, but then you don't do the regular arrow damage, only Bomb damage, but still, that's a good option.
For a withering Full Attack. I think Natural Attacks are the way to go. There are ways to pile on dozens of natural attacks. Then I like taking levels in Warpriest so that your many, many natural attacks inflict Sacred Weapon Damage instead of the regular natural attack damage.
You can play a Tengu, perhaps starting off with that archer thing I showed you. You have to settle for 1d8 damage to start or take Exotic Weapon Hornbow, but optimal design is all about Compromise.
All Tengu get a Bite Attack. Claws are available as an Alternative Racial Trait.
Acquire a Helm of the Mammoth Lord or an Animal Mask, and you also get a Gore Attack.
Dip a level in White Haired Witch, and you also get a Hair Attack.
White Hair gets a Free Grapple when it hits. If you are wearing Armor Spikes, you get to do Armor Spike Damage with every successful Grapple Attack, which will also do Warpriest Sacred Weapon Damage if you take Weapon Focus for them.
If you take the Hamatula Strike Feat, your piercing attacks--Gore and Bite--will also get free Grapples. If you take Snake Style and Feral Combat Training for your Claws, your Claws will do Piercing Damage, too.
So, Bite/Gore/Hair/2 Claws, all with free grapples when they hit and all doing Armor Spike Damage when they hit. You don't want to actually Grapple, so Release the Grapple each time as a Free Action. But that is just about 10 attacks/round, all doing Warpriest Sacred Weapon base Damage, 1d8 for a Level 5 Warpriest. If you acquire a Wand of Strong Jaw, you will inflict damage as if you were 2 sizes bigger, so 3d6 Damage, each!
The true scourge of the battlefield though is the Druidzilla build. Take 4 levels in Druid--just enough to Wild Shape--and take the Shaping Focus Feat and your nonDruid levels count as Druid levels so that by level 8, you will be able to Wildshape into Huge Animals like the Allosaurus. You will still get your Gore Attack if you put the Helm' on after you polymorph. The White Hair is a supernatural ability, you will get that in any shape you take. Then you start taking levels of Warpriest like you were before, and you will be doing even more damage.
My favorite Animal to Wildshape into is the Giant Octopus 8 tentacles all with Grab and Constrict, and a bite attack! For that Armor Spike Damage I like so much, you can get Barding made for you, and then prevail upon one of your allies to suit you up with Swift Girding.
ASIs? I figured out the other acronyms but that one's a mystery.
Anyway, if you want big damage and Path of War is on the table then you can't go wrong with the primal fury discipline. The warder class, zweihander sentinel archetype is a decent combo of attack and defence; a counter from iron tortoise could save you in a pinch. Gestalt on that? Maybe bard or skald for buffs and a good reflex save. Or even just rogue if you reliably have a flanking partner.
Sounds to me like you want a Full BAB on one side of the Gestalt. I have toyed with Path of War, but it has been a while and I don't recall the details. There are some very powerful options there though, so I'd take a long look at those. Failing that, I'd be inclined toward a Mutation Warrior, Lore Warden or Weapon Master fighter (I really like fighter for 1/2 of a melee gestalt since most of the weaknesses such as low skill points and bad will save get covered up, and having all the time abilities that just work is a good base chassis.)
For the other half I'd probably be looking at a 3/4 BAB class. The 3/4 BABs tend have stuff that synergizes really well with a full BAB on a gestalt and often come with action economy baked in. Swift action and free action abilities in particular. Inquisitor, War Priest, Bard and Magus would all be a strong competitors, which is best probably depends on the flavor you want. If it was me, I'd be thinking of either a hexcrafter magus or a arcane duelist bard. Either should be able to put up some big numbers when combined with a full BAB gestalt.
The bow stuff doesn't really seem like high-tier optimization.
Since we start at level 1, I feel like too much dipping would be a bad idea, because it'll slow me down for those levels.
ASI is Ability Score Increase, the +1 to a stat you get every 4 levels.
A full BAB + 3/4 BAB seems like it'd be good for the reasons you mentioned, especially with Warpriest because of the Wisdom focus to buff up saves, and Fervor, but it feels very...simple? I'm not sure. I'm imagining there's probably something within all that 3pp that can be exploited.
A build I like that feels like multiclassing and the can be enhanced by multiclassing is;
Sanctified slayer with the rage domain a reach weapon.
You get heroism, divine favor, study target, rage, multiple aoos, tones of utility spells and abilities, bane, and furious weapons.
This build should give you everything you need to succeed. Add gestalt for fighter stuff would work amazingly well.
Build 2:
If you want a great all around build I like a sword and board nature's fang druid with a strong animal to allow you to lay out the damage. Control spells and spontaneous summoning really cover versatility. Gestalt fighter, brawler exemplar could be great, bloodrager, warpriest, tones of options.
3:
Palidin is an amazing base for full bab character. Bard, sorcerers, will both blend well.
Neetshot wrote: The bow stuff doesn't really seem like high-tier optimization.
Since we start at level 1, I feel like too much dipping would be a bad idea, because it'll slow me down for those levels.
I don't like too much dipping either: I like just the right amount of dipping! I showed you how to make a character that gets 22 attacks/round, and pretty high-Damage attacks, at that! What you lose by double classing between Druid and Wapriest is high level spells, but you said you weren't interested in those, anyway.
I dip a lot, but I don't dip willynilly. I'll dip to get an extra attack/round. I'll dip to get just the right buff. The Pathfinder gaming system is intended for aggressive multiclassing.
I noticed you are allowed to use Psionics. You could take a look at and Half Gian. Half Giants have Powerful Build, letting them use Size Large Weapons. You can be a Psychic Warrior. Use a Bastard Sword. The Pschic Warrior Power Expansion is an interesting variant from Enlarge Person. Expansion is augmentable so you can grow 2 sizes. I still would dip into Ranger to be able to use a Wand of Lead Blades. I would probably use either a Heavy Shield and 2 weapon fight with Bastard Sword and Armor Spikes, or I would use a Light Shield and 2 weapon fight with Bastard Sword and Shield Bash. The Base Damage for a twice-enlarged Half Giant Bastard Sword will be 4d8, quite good. With Lead Blades, 5d8. The thing I like about Shield Bashing is the Shield Slam Feat, which gives you a Free Bull Rush with every Shield Bash. Take Greater Bull Rush, and you will grant Attacks of Opportunity to you Allies. A problem with Bull Rushing is that you can't Bull Rush anybody that is 2 sizes bigger than you, but the Half Giant's Powerful Build Racial Trait makes them effectively Size Large, and Expansion makes them effectively Size Gargantuan. There's only 1 size above that. You could also take Thunder and Fang, fighting with Earthbreaker and Klar, doing the Shield Slam thing I was just talking about.
Neetshot wrote: The bow stuff doesn't really seem like high-tier optimization. I disagree with you there. The Alchemal Bomb Damage continues to go up, it allows you to combine the Bomb Damage with Arrow Damage and Alchemal Weapon Damage, 5d6 by the time you even get Explosive Missile. In addition, you have the myriad other abilities that Alchemist gives you.
If you take Fast Bombs, you can Nova for more than a hundred points of damage in 1 round.
Meanwhile, even if it isn't high-tier optimization, a melee-focused character should have some Ranged capability, and I showed you a low-cost way to achieve that.
Scott Wilhelm wrote: I noticed you are allowed to use Psionics. You could take a look at and Half Gian. Half Giants have Powerful Build, letting them use Size Large Weapons. You can be a Psychic Warrior. Use a Bastard Sword. The Pschic Warrior Power Expansion is an interesting variant from Enlarge Person. Expansion is augmentable so you can grow 2 sizes. I still would dip into Ranger to be able to use a Wand of Lead Blades. I would probably use either a Heavy Shield and 2 weapon fight with Bastard Sword and Armor Spikes, or I would use a Light Shield and 2 weapon fight with Bastard Sword and Shield Bash. The Base Damage for a twice-enlarged Half Giant Bastard Sword will be 4d8, quite good. With Lead Blades, 5d8. The thing I like about Shield Bashing is the Shield Slam Feat, which gives you a Free Bull Rush with every Shield Bash. Take Greater Bull Rush, and you will grant Attacks of Opportunity to you Allies. A problem with Bull Rushing is that you can't Bull Rush anybody that is 2 sizes bigger than you, but the Half Giant's Powerful Build Racial Trait makes them effectively Size Large, and Expansion makes them effectively Size Gargantuan. There's only 1 size above that. You could also take Thunder and Fang, fighting with Earthbreaker and Klar, doing the Shield Slam thing I was just talking about. Oh yeah, then take Vital Strike feats, so your base Damage goes up to 20d8 for your Bastard Sword, 8d6 for your Klar, and 16d6 for your Armor Spikes.
Scott Wilhelm wrote: Scott Wilhelm wrote: I noticed you are allowed to use Psionics. You could take a look at and Half Gian. Half Giants have Powerful Build, letting them use Size Large Weapons. You can be a Psychic Warrior. Use a Bastard Sword. The Pschic Warrior Power Expansion is an interesting variant from Enlarge Person. Expansion is augmentable so you can grow 2 sizes. I still would dip into Ranger to be able to use a Wand of Lead Blades. I would probably use either a Heavy Shield and 2 weapon fight with Bastard Sword and Armor Spikes, or I would use a Light Shield and 2 weapon fight with Bastard Sword and Shield Bash. The Base Damage for a twice-enlarged Half Giant Bastard Sword will be 4d8, quite good. With Lead Blades, 5d8. The thing I like about Shield Bashing is the Shield Slam Feat, which gives you a Free Bull Rush with every Shield Bash. Take Greater Bull Rush, and you will grant Attacks of Opportunity to you Allies. A problem with Bull Rushing is that you can't Bull Rush anybody that is 2 sizes bigger than you, but the Half Giant's Powerful Build Racial Trait makes them effectively Size Large, and Expansion makes them effectively Size Gargantuan. There's only 1 size above that. You could also take Thunder and Fang, fighting with Earthbreaker and Klar, doing the Shield Slam thing I was just talking about. Oh yeah, then take Vital Strike feats, so your base Damage goes up to 20d8 for your Bastard Sword, 8d6 for your Klar, and 16d6 for your Armor Spikes. How would I build such a Half Giant?
1Fighter 1: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot BAB+1
A Half Giant can use a size large long bow. It will do 2d6. At this Point, their melee weapon could just be Armor Spikes, which will do 1d8. The Giant will be able to fight in Melee withoug putting down their bow. They could use regular melee weapons, of course. Or you could use a Greatsword or something.
2F1Ranger1: Freebooter, Freebooter's Bane, BAB+2
Even a level 1 Ranger can use Wands with Ranger Spells. 2 Level 1 Ranger Spells I like are Gravity Bow and Lead Blades. Gravitied Large Arrows and Leaded Greatswords do 3d6
3F1R1Psychic Warrior 1: Orc Hornbow, Weapon Focus Greatsword, Expansion
A Medium Sized Orc Hornbow does 2d6, Size Large, 3d6, Gravitied 4d6. The Greatsword does the same.
Expansion lets you grow a size, and it grants that ability to your arrows even after leaving your bow. You base Damage is now up to 5d6 for your arrows and Greatsword.
4F1R1P2: Psionic Weapon, Ability +1, BAB+3
If you keep your Psionic Focus, you do +1 Damage. If you expend it, you do an extra 2d6. Regaining your Focus is a Full Round Action.
5F1R1P3: Psionic Meditation, BAB+4.
Regaining your Focus is now a Move Action. Now when you are in melee, you can expend your focus each round, attacking with a 2d6 kick, then regain it each round as a Move Action. Now your Damage Dice are more like 7d6/round.
6F1R1P4: BAB+5
7F1R1P5: Combat Manifestation, Psionic Shot
Buffing yourself is what being a Psychic Warrior is all about. If you expend your focus, you can take 15 on your Concentration Check. Combat Manifestation gives you a +5.
8F1R1P6: Ability +1, BAB+6
9F1R1P7: Vital Strike, BAB+7
I’m pretty sure that you are not allowed to spend more than 1PSP/level/round, so it is at this point when you can aument Expansion to grow 2 sizes instead of 1, increasing your Base Damage to 6d6
With Vital Strike your Greatsword goes from 6d6 to 12d6 when enlarged and leadbladed. Sadly, your Psionic Weapon does not also get doubled, so the Damage is only 14d6.
When your BAB gets to +11, you can take Improved Vital Strike, tipling your damage dice instead of doubling it, raising your Greatsword Damage to 20d6. When you get to BAB +16, you can take Greater Vital Strike, quadrupling your Base Damage instead of tripling it, increasing your damage dice to 26d6.
At some point, you would take Power Attack and Furious Focus, increasing your Damage by +3(BAB/4) without taking any attack penalty.
You might take Great Cleave, of course.
You might work in some Attacks of Opportunity or some defensive features. Psychic Warrior Powers and Feats help with this, letting you enjoy Miss Chances, DR, Increased AC, and self-healing.
Also, there are a lot of other class features to Psychic Warrior I haven't even considered.
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