What would you like to see on the Gen Con schedule?


Pathfinder Society

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Dark Archive ***** Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—North Shore aka LackofFocus

Michael VonHasseln wrote:
Lucas Servideo wrote:

For Pathfinder Academy this Year I think it should be Switched to Starfinder Academy, we can get GMs to run and teach Starfinder we have a beginner box coming out which should be able to teach the Basics of Starfinder right from the Box. Combined with some of the Starfinder Scenarios and Quests. I think it would be the right direction to go. One of the complaints last year was the lack of Starfinder in the Academy Area.

I do think also for the Academy Area we should reduce the number of tables, being offered in the Sag and see if we can get a demo table in the kids area that is put on by GenCon. It would reach more exposure for the Academy and New people for Academy.

I do feel we could probably teach PS2 if we kept it simple with a basic quest line and a Quick Start Guide.

I think the Lesson plans need to be rewritten for the Academy with the both the New Systems in mind.

New Systems, New Academy :D

My 2 cents.

Never give Up, Never Surrender!!

This would, however, require Paizo support to produce a series of Quests to roll out with the introduction of the Starfinder Beginner's Box to the Academy tables. As busy as they are with PF2, I'm not sure this is on their radar... though it should be. The Pathfinder Beginners Box would never have seen as much acclaim if it hadn't been supported with the PSA program. As it is, one reason this product dropped in popularity was the lack of continued product support--understandable if you want to avoid dividing your customer base. It was because of this that the Transition Lesson plan was written, to move the PSA audience toward regular Core Rulebook play.

I think "taking a year off" with the PSA program would be a mistake. It is the first introduction some kids have to tabletop roleplaying games, and starting them young builds a foundation for the future. If we ignore this program, we risk losing all the momentum and goodwill this has garnered so far. Yes, last year's numbers were down... but no new content was...

Michael, there are quests for Starfinder already we need you really need to stop isolating academy with their own "quests" and letting them play with the scenarios and quests that are being given to everyone else. It willl make things easier to get them into regular society and if we're just using the beginner box and whatever questlines they already have out in a couple beginner scenarios I think we'll be good.

The biggest issue is that we haven't embraced giving the kids in the academy section a taste of actual society except for the last couple years and we really need to do that the academy program needs to run what is out for the regular seasons far PFS and SFS and even pf2.

We use the beginner boxes to teach the systems. Then move on to the books starting with the core and adding more later.

We encourage Explore Report and Cooperate as well as creativity.

Dark Archive **** Venture-Agent, Ohio—Cincinnati aka Northern Dreamer

Lucas Servideo wrote:
Michael VonHasseln wrote:
Lucas Servideo wrote:

For Pathfinder Academy this Year I think it should be Switched to Starfinder Academy, we can get GMs to run and teach Starfinder we have a beginner box coming out which should be able to teach the Basics of Starfinder right from the Box. Combined with some of the Starfinder Scenarios and Quests. I think it would be the right direction to go. One of the complaints last year was the lack of Starfinder in the Academy Area.

I do think also for the Academy Area we should reduce the number of tables, being offered in the Sag and see if we can get a demo table in the kids area that is put on by GenCon. It would reach more exposure for the Academy and New people for Academy.

I do feel we could probably teach PS2 if we kept it simple with a basic quest line and a Quick Start Guide.

I think the Lesson plans need to be rewritten for the Academy with the both the New Systems in mind.

New Systems, New Academy :D

My 2 cents.

Never give Up, Never Surrender!!

This would, however, require Paizo support to produce a series of Quests to roll out with the introduction of the Starfinder Beginner's Box to the Academy tables. As busy as they are with PF2, I'm not sure this is on their radar... though it should be. The Pathfinder Beginners Box would never have seen as much acclaim if it hadn't been supported with the PSA program. As it is, one reason this product dropped in popularity was the lack of continued product support--understandable if you want to avoid dividing your customer base. It was because of this that the Transition Lesson plan was written, to move the PSA audience toward regular Core Rulebook play.

I think "taking a year off" with the PSA program would be a mistake. It is the first introduction some kids have to tabletop roleplaying games, and starting them young builds a foundation for the future. If we ignore this program, we risk losing all the momentum and goodwill this has garnered so far. Yes, last year's numbers

...

What about modding one of the current quest sets/whatever is released with the Starfinder Beginner box to work with the lessons that were written for the original PSA material? Or just update the ruleset in beginner and advanced to match that of Starfinder/P2? Lots of that stuff is still very relevant (and I've sat with the tables that really had to start with "what are these dice?") and I think that modifying it, rather than starting from scratch, is the answer for longevity. I also agree with pulling in more of the society content, because as we get these kids transitioned into full adventures, if we have gotten them into society then hopefully they can look for a group to continue with when they go home.

Liberty's Edge ***** Venture-Captain, Missouri—Cape Girardeau aka Arnim Thayer

Lucas Servideo wrote:

Michael, there are quests for Starfinder already. We need you really need to stop isolating academy with their own "quests" and letting them play with the scenarios and quests that are being given to everyone else. It will make things easier to get them into regular society and if we're just using the beginner box and whatever questlines they already have out in a couple beginner scenarios I think we'll be good.

The biggest issue is that we haven't embraced giving the kids in the academy section a taste of actual society except for the last couple years and we really need to do that the academy program needs to run what is out for the regular seasons far PFS and SFS and even pf2.

While I can agree with the sentiment of "embracing the feeling of being part of both PFS and SFS", I think giving them Quests that have already been out for over a year (and potentially are already played) is a disservice, making PSA seem as if "second-hand citizens" toward the overall Organized Play. I'd much rather that PSA get Quests designed specifically for them, exclusive until after GenCon. I also recognize this is a tall order, considering how 1)late it is to even consider this for GenCon '19, and 2) the staff is neck-deep in working on support material for PF2. It might be an idea that has to be shelved for a year... but one still worth considering.

Keep in mind, we both agree on the importance of PSA. I just want to emphasis that without new or exclusive content, there is no impetuous for people to sign their kids up for this. Ultimately, GenCon wants butts in seats. Offering the "same old-same old" is why (IMO) we've seen a drop in participation in this program from previous years. I'd rather Paizo take a risk and produce PSA-exclusive product as a test for interest than see them abandon this altogether, having created no excitement to keep it afloat. That is the way of the self-fulfilling prophecy.

Grand Lodge ***** ⦵⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Online—PbP aka Hmm

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I don'ti know. The kids don't know what's already been played. When Starfinder launched, I thought we should be doing 'Into the Unknown' and Commencement with kids. Both are fine teaching adventures, as is. And yes, I agree about including Skittershot.

The adventures exist already. Let's just open them up for PSA tables.

Same deal with whatever quest set will be there for PF2. Let PSA have a crack at it. It will already be designed for teaching PF2. Why not use what's already there?

Hmm

Grand Lodge ***** Regional Venture-Coordinator, Great Lakes aka TwilightKnight

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IMO, the easiest thing to do would be follow the PF BB model. Write 4-5 two-page mini adventures to release with the Starfinder BB and have a Bash event. This will help raise excitement about the physical product and sell boxes. Have a boon for participants in the event. Then use those adventures as the basis for the PSA material. We’re already talking about extra work for the devs, so adding a lesson plan on top of it is probably beyond capacity for this year, but experienced PSA GMs who also know the Starfinder system would be capable of running those adventures within the rules limited scope of the beginner box for The kids at Gen Con.

I think it would also be possible with a bit of rework to use the existing PSA adventures adapted for 2E rules, again as a stop-gap until next year when the entire program can be updated without the added pressure of launching PFS2. These two processes would allow for us to offer both Pathfinder and Starfinder in PSA and try to rebuild our dwindling participation numbers.

I know Paizo has their processes for finished product, but I think this is one of those cases where we could survive simply with a couple pages of “web enhancement” type materials as guidelines. This is not without some added work on Paizo’s side and that has to be respected. They are tremendously busy with tying up PFS1 and launching PFS2, but I think we have an opportunity to seize on the excitement of the new system and we’ve already lost a year with Starfinder. There was a lot of parental interest in PSA Starfinder for their kids last year.

Like many others, I am a big supporter of PSA and want to see it not only succeed but expand. Yes, it’s not a revenue generator, but it’s a marketing tool like all of OP. The last couple of years we’ve seen a fairly significant drop in participation at Gen Con and if we don’t act soon, it’s gonna fade away.

Scarab Sages ***** Regional Venture-Coordinator, Southeast aka DCII

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Having run about 80 sessions of PF2 Playtest I would strongly recommend a panel or three "What's New: PF2" and do not assume players and especially GMs are going to show up for PF2 'knowing' the mechanics and what the differences between V1 and V2 are. We are a few months away and I am still running Playtest tables for people who have not even glanced at the rules. GMs are going to have some frustration teaching PF2 to players all GenCon long especially those who are still learning and possibly not confident making rules adjudications themselves.

Could you reskin PSA to Public Service Announcement tables that are training tables for adults and seriously limit the kids play until GenCon 2020 when Paizo will have had time to create a new PSA2 Kids program?

In addition, as I have run tables with people who have 'seen' the rules there are large discrepancies in which rules they have seen. Some haven't kept up with the various releases and PF2 may be further still from the latest edition of the playtest rules release.

I guess to summarize: My recommendation is that you focus this GenCon on the transition to the new rules and making the change over as painless and as informative and as FUN as possible as opposed to trying to wow people with content or events focus on the substance of the new rules.

Not sure how you do that but that's my $0.02 and that and $12.00 will barely get you a cup of coffee now-a-days :-)

Dark Archive *** ⦵⦵⦵ Venture-Agent, Illinois—Fairview Heights aka Hornbender

Bob Jonquet wrote:
Actually if we have the GM meetings for the special in their respective Slack channels before Gen Con it is much more effective. There is no time crunch. GMs can ask many more questions and see those of others more readily. The author and/or developers can answer questions more thoroughly and provide much more in-depth responses. I am 99% sure we will use this format again this year

This may be a bit off topic, but would it be possible to have Slack set up for the Starfinder Special at Origins? Then the same channel could later be used for the Gencon GMs. That would provide those of us GMing the special at Origins an opportunity to discuss and share prep prior to the first instance of the special. I remember having access to slack for the first Starfinder release at Gencon and the prep materials and discussions were extremely helpful.

Grand Lodge ***** Regional Venture-Coordinator, Great Lakes aka TwilightKnight

That would be a question for the Origins organizing committee but should be doable. We wouldn’t rename the channel and use it for Gen Con however. We like to keep chats archived for future reference. We would open a new channel for Gen Con. It would likely be sufficient that we extract meaningful text and post it in the GC channel so you wouldn’t need to be a member of both.

One of the issues is the availability of the developers. Ideally they should be the ones answering the questions as opposed to the rest of us speculating at each other. That could be a limiting factor since we know they are extremely busy this year, even more so than typical years due to the 2E launch.

***

Bob Jonquet wrote:

Bringing back retired scenarios and making them available for general play is likely way beyond anything that could happen this year. Given that the developers are still working on all the final scenarios for PFS1 and (hopefully) creating a finale that will be worthy of a ten year campaign, plus having to learn all the new 2E rules and implement them in short time so as to release the first few scenarios for season 11, on top of Starfinder, as well as all the other things they have to do, I can say with almost certainty it will not happen anytime soon. With what little I know of the schedule, they simply do not have any space in the schedule for additional projects like this one until after Gen Con.

Generally, Paizo has been resistant to updating season zero scenarios and re-releasing them, and that is mostly just stat block updates and a pass through the development system. Updating retired scenarios will require a range from some to quite a bit of rewriting to overcome the issues that caused them to be retired in the first place.

So, while I respect the intention, its simply not something that will be available to us for Gen Con. If you are passionate about this particular subject, I would recommend starting a fresh thread where the pros and cons can be weighed and where the developers can weigh in. Thx

Regarding the retired scenarios, I note Tonya ran some at SCARAB earlier year, for credit... .

I recognize they probably aren't the sort of thing that should be just handed to random GM signups. Given the amount of 5-Star and Campaign Co-ordinator talent present for GenCon, though, and given the number of players who (like me) have never had a chance to play these scenarios at local lodges, seems like there might be some demand? :)

Seems fitting for a 'last hurrah' for PFS 1... .

Shadow Lodge *****

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SANCTION ME

Liberty's Edge ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Maryland— Baltimore aka Qstor

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Redgar's ACG Characters wrote:


I recognize they probably aren't the sort of thing that should be just handed to random GM signups. Given the amount of 5-Star and Campaign Co-ordinator talent present for GenCon, though, and given the number of players who (like me) have never had a chance to play these scenarios at local lodges, seems like there might be some demand? :)

Seems fitting for a 'last hurrah' for PFS 1... .

I think they've said in the past that only Paizo staff can run the edited scenario like John, Tonya or one of the developers.

Are there going to be CORE games on the GenCon schedule?

***

Mike McKeown wrote:
Redgar's ACG Characters wrote:


I recognize they probably aren't the sort of thing that should be just handed to random GM signups. Given the amount of 5-Star and Campaign Co-ordinator talent present for GenCon, though, and given the number of players who (like me) have never had a chance to play these scenarios at local lodges, seems like there might be some demand? :)

Seems fitting for a 'last hurrah' for PFS 1... .

I think they've said in the past that only Paizo staff can run the edited scenario like John, Tonya or one of the developers.

I would be a-ok playing at The Sassy Table (tm?) once again... :)

Grand Lodge ***** Regional Venture-Coordinator, Great Lakes aka TwilightKnight

Mike McKeown wrote:
Are there going to be CORE games on the GenCon schedule?

No, unless you consider 2E. All of those games will be core ;-)

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