HELP BUILD Natural Lycan (Beast Archetype) fighter STRONG (20 pts buy)


Advice


Hello guys, I started a campain as a PC and I wanted to create a character that fits perfectly both as a fighting class and race to the beast archetype that I chose, which is Lycanthrope (natural, not infected).

I don't want a character that breaks the game, but I want it to be excellent in fight with that archetype. Any class/prestige class/race is allowed, and we start with 10500 GP. No 3pp material allowed, only PF official mat is.
Do your best and thanks!

Eserioth


Up


Umm...yeah. About that.

The only werewolf race for players (natural lycanthrope) is a 3rd party creation from Dreamscar press.

Shifters are Piazio material, but that isn't a Lycanthrope per se.

The OP hasn't really provided enough to really inspire anyone to give an idea. Like he says "to the beast archetype that I chose" but saying Lycanthrope doesn't really narrow that down, ya know?

Like does he want a Wereboar? A Wererat? A Werebear? Seriously, is a Shifter ok or does it have to be a monster that we're building on top of here and pretending that its ok for a player to be one?

What is the starting level (CR?) of the character? I mean if you want we can stat out a CR23 Mythical Primal Werewolf King that should be able to take on an entire party of level 20 mythic characters...oh and with 10,500gp worth of treasure gear.

Or does the OP want something that most GMs wouldn't burn object to?


Well, I'm guessing it's a 5th level character since that's as much gold they start with.

I gave this thread a glance earlier but I have no idea what "and race to the beast archetype that I chose" means, so I just let it be.


@Eserioth - Unfortunately, there is no Lycanthrope race in the Pathfinder setting unless you use Third party or homebrew. There is the Lycanthrope Template (CR+1), but you'll have to have a very accepting DM if they allow Templates on Player Characters.

Your only other option is to emulate transformation through Spellcasting or Class Features. For example, the Alchemist can have a Jackyl/Hyde build which focuses on Natural Attacks using the Beastmorph archetype, and then emulate the Lycanthropy transformation at 7th level with the Master Chemist Prestige Class. At least, that is how I was able to get my Ulfen Alchemist to do it (who was obsessed with the idea of unlocking the 'Lycanthropy genes' in his DNA).

Another choice you have is Oracle Levels with the Lycanthropy curse, giving you the Wild Empathy ability at level 1, the "beast shape" spell for your transformation at level 10, and your DR/Silver at level 15.

There are a lot of class archetypes that emulate Lycanthropy, but there is no "legit" way to obtain it without the Template and DM approval.


Skinwalkers could work as a race. I have a feeling that’s not where this is going tho.


Guys I think that what she meant is that She wanna make a lvl 5 PC with Lycanthrope archetype and she wanna know the best class/race/feats/gears/objects combination for a lvl 5 Lycanthrope fighter starting with 10500 GP. I hope that my explaination Is clear:)


And I also think that the GM said that the Lycan was the only 3pp he was willing to accept, so just try to do your best with these infos:)


KidBash95 wrote:
Guys I think that what she meant is that She wanna make a lvl 5 PC with Lycanthrope archetype and she wanna know the best class/race/feats/gears/objects combination for a lvl 5 Lycanthrope fighter starting with 10500 GP. I hope that my explaination Is clear:)

Sorry, still not completely sure what you mean.

You're implying that the character in question is the [Fighter] class with an archetype named [Lycanthrope], but unless it's from a new book I've never seen a 'Lycanthrope Fighter'.

I'm under the impression that both you and OP may be misusing Pathfinder terminology, as 'Archetype' is a clearly defined term.

While I'm still not sure if OP's character actually starts out as a Lycanthrope or not, I'm guessing that the build is supposed to be a Were-creature.


lv 5 Lycanthrope:
Human, Urban Id Bloodrager 1 / Weretouched Shifter 4

Ability scores (20 PB), 4th increase in Strength
Str 18, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 7

Racial Traits
Bonus Feat
Skilled

Traits:
Beastkin (can speak with the animals who raised you)
Empathic Diplomat (Wisdom for Diplomacy)

Feats and Levels:
Urban Id Bloodrager
1. Power Attack, Extra Rage, Skill Focus (Diplomacy) (B), Iron Will (B)
Weretouched Shifter
2.
3. Shifter's Rush (Retrained)
4.
5. Planar Wild Shape

Relevant Class Features:
Rage, Fast Movement, Dutiful Strike
Shifter Claws
Defensive Instinct
Woodland Stride
Lycanthropic Wild Shape

Skills:
Diplomacy: +13
Perception: +10
Survival: +11 (+2 when Tracking)

Skill points spent: 15/34

***

Magic Items:
Animal Mask (2,700 gp) - You gain a Bite or Gore attack, your choice.

+1, Leather Lamellar (1210 gp) - You want non-metal armor for Defensive Instinct.

+1, Cloak of Resistance (1,000 gp) - Mandatory.

Cracked Pearly White Spindle Ioun Stone (3,400) - You heal 24 HP / Day, and your lost body parts regrows. Either implant it or buy a Wayfinder for 500 gp.

Wand of Infernal Healing (750 gp) - It's on your spell list so no UMD check required. Each use heals 10 HP.

Traveler's Any-Tool (250 gp) - Need a shovel? You got it. Need scissors? You got it. Need a crowbar? You got it.

9310 / 10,500 GP

After this you might want to buy some essentials.
A backpack, clothes, emergency in-combat healing, alchemical goods, etc.

***

Alright, the build above should be a strong enough chassis for any 'Lycanthrope' character, while also being decent in social encounters with Diplomacy.

A transformation, Damage Reduction, a minimum of four natural attacks, regrowth of lost limbs, and the ability to speak to your chosen animal. The question is what kind of Were-creature OP wants to be, as that have been left undecided.


Wonderstell wrote:
KidBash95 wrote:
Guys I think that what she meant is that She wanna make a lvl 5 PC with Lycanthrope archetype and she wanna know the best class/race/feats/gears/objects combination for a lvl 5 Lycanthrope fighter starting with 10500 GP. I hope that my explaination Is clear:)

Sorry, still not completely sure what you mean.

You're implying that the character in question is the [Fighter] class with an archetype named [Lycanthrope], but unless it's from a new book I've never seen a 'Lycanthrope Fighter'.

I'm under the impression that both you and OP may be misusing Pathfinder terminology, as 'Archetype' is a clearly defined term.

While I'm still not sure if OP's character actually starts out as a Lycanthrope or not, I'm guessing that the build is supposed to be a Were-creature.

Yeah, I explained myself wrong. I think that OP wants a were-creature (I think werewolf, by the way she asks for Lycanthrope, which is almost everytime a wolf), with a martial class (like fighter, monk, barbarian, etc) and a race that fits toghether, and along with these, also the combination of feats/gears/objects that fits the most with It.


Wonderstell wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

Alright, the build above should be a strong enough chassis for any 'Lycanthrope' character, while also being decent in social encounters with Diplomacy.

A transformation, Damage Reduction, a minimum of four natural attacks, regrowth of lost limbs, and the ability to speak to your chosen...

Anyways not bad!


Wonderstell wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

Alright, the build above should be a strong enough chassis for any 'Lycanthrope' character, while also being decent in social encounters with Diplomacy.

A transformation, Damage Reduction, a minimum of four natural attacks, regrowth of lost limbs, and the ability to speak to your chosen...

Hello. First of all thank you for your time and patience. The build you made is very good, but I would like a werewolf PC with a martial class, an appropriate race and a progression from level 5 to level 20, starting with 10500 GP and adding half the amount from the character creation for each level (example; level 5 gives you 10500 GP, level 6 gives 16000 GP, so the difference is 5500 GP, and dividing it by 2 you get 2250 GP, and that's the amount you can spend or keep when you progress from level 5 to 6, and so on). Thanks for your patience and I can't wait to get an answer!!


Wolves are bad weres. I would go with maybe a barbarian weretiger or a ninja wereoctopus myself.


Eserioth wrote:

Hello guys, I started a campain as a PC and I wanted to create a character that fits perfectly both as a fighting class and race to the beast archetype that I chose, which is Lycanthrope (natural, not infected).

I don't want a character that breaks the game, but I want it to be excellent in fight with that archetype. Any class/prestige class/race is allowed, and we start with 10500 GP. No 3pp material allowed, only PF official mat is.
Do your best and thanks!

Eserioth

I have a PFS character build concept that would work well with the Dreamscarred Press Werewolf Player Template . In PFS, I would play a Tengu.

I would have the character take the Savage Claws Benefit and eventually acquire more natural attacks, assuming that in the OP's campaign magic items are available in the same way as they are in PFS:

A Ring of Ratfangs for a Bite Attack
A Helm of the Mammoth Lord or an Animal Mask for a Gore Attack.

I would have them eventually dip a level in White Haired Witch for a Hair Attack.

I would probably have the character start with a level or 2 in Ranger just so they can use a Wand of Gravity Bow and Precise Shot. Since it is a Free Action to remove a hand from a 2 handed weapon, this character should be able to Full Attack with its Claws while holding the bow. They wouldn't be able to shoot with it in the same round, but this character would enjoy a high level of flexibility. The character would eventually acquire Wand of Strong Jaw.

After taking those levels in Ranger, the character then just takes levels in Warpriest, worshipping a deity whose favored weapon is one or more Natural Attacks and/or taking Weapon Focus for the rest of them. So this character will have a Full attack with Bite/Gore/Hair/2 Claws. 5 Attacks/round is a lot, even if they only do 1d6 each, but as they gain levels in Warpriest, they will do more and more Damage. The actually have more like 6 Attacks/Round because if they hit with the 'Hair, they get a Free Grapple, and if they wear Armor Spikes, they get to do Armor Spike Damage which can also benefit from Warpriest Sacred Weapon Damage and other bonuses.

After this character's BAB gets up to +7, they can take Hamatula Strike, giving their Piercing Natural Attacks, the Gore and Bite to get Free Grapple Attacks, too. I know of 2 ways to make the Claw Attacks do Piercing Damage. Now we are up to (kind of) 10 Attacks/round that do Warpriest Sacred Weapon Damage.

So now we have a character with a strong Ranged Attack, an obscene Melee Full Attack, has 3 very good saving throws, and can function as the party healer.


Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Eserioth wrote:

Hello guys, I started a campain as a PC and I wanted to create a character that fits perfectly both as a fighting class and race to the beast archetype that I chose, which is Lycanthrope (natural, not infected).

I don't want a character that breaks the game, but I want it to be excellent in fight with that archetype. Any class/prestige class/race is allowed, and we start with 10500 GP. No 3pp material allowed, only PF official mat is.
Do your best and thanks!

Eserioth

I have a PFS character build concept that would work well with the Dreamscarred Press Werewolf Player Template . In PFS, I would play a Tengu.

I would have the character take the Savage Claws Benefit and eventually acquire more natural attacks, assuming that in the OP's campaign magic items are available in the same way as they are in PFS:

A Ring of Ratfangs for a Bite Attack
A Helm of the Mammoth Lord or an Animal Mask for a Gore Attack.

I would have them eventually dip a level in White Haired Witch for a Hair Attack.

I would probably have the character start with a level or 2 in Ranger just so they can use a Wand of Gravity Bow and Precise Shot. Since it is a Free Action to remove a hand from a 2 handed weapon, this character should be able to Full Attack with its Claws while holding the bow. They wouldn't be able to shoot with it in the same round, but this character would enjoy a high level of flexibility. The character would eventually acquire Wand of Strong Jaw.

After taking those levels in Ranger, the character then just takes levels in Warpriest, worshipping a deity whose favored weapon is one or more Natural Attacks and/or taking Weapon Focus for the rest of them. So this character will have a Full attack with Bite/Gore/Hair/2 Claws. 5 Attacks/round is a lot, even if they only do 1d6 each, but as they gain levels in Warpriest, they will do more and more Damage....

Ooh, also take Scent. Take the Blind Fighting Feat eventually. Now this character can function while Blinded. If the rest of the party takes appropriate counter measures to being Blinded, too, then someone can carry an Eversmoking Bottle, Blinding everybody in every battle, and humiliating and dominating almost every encounter until the GM just decides that everyone in his world just happens to have Blindsight.


Eserioth wrote:
Wonderstell wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

Alright, the build above should be a strong enough chassis for any 'Lycanthrope' character, while also being decent in social encounters with Diplomacy.

A transformation, Damage Reduction, a minimum of four natural attacks, regrowth of lost limbs, and the ability to speak to your chosen...

Hello. First of all thank you for your time and patience. The build you made is very good, but I would like a werewolf PC with a martial class, an appropriate race and a progression from level 5 to level 20, starting with 10500 GP and adding half the amount from the character creation for each level (example; level 5 gives you 10500 GP, level 6 gives 16000 GP, so the difference is 5500 GP, and dividing it by 2 you get 2250 GP, and that's the amount you can spend or keep when you progress from level 5 to 6, and so on). Thanks for your patience and I can't wait to get an answer!!

Being a werewolf PC affects your character a whole lot, but it's largely unimportant to your build. What you get is one natural attack, Damage Reduction, and some ability modifiers.

There's nothing build-defining in those benefits (except the auto-trip), and as such you have to decide yourself what theme you want to achieve.
If it's a blender, then just add more and more natural attacks while pumping your strength high with Rage/Mutagen. You'd definitely want Pounce sooner or later, though.

So what do you want your werewolf to be able to do?


Wonderstell wrote:
Eserioth wrote:
Wonderstell wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

Alright, the build above should be a strong enough chassis for any 'Lycanthrope' character, while also being decent in social encounters with Diplomacy.

A transformation, Damage Reduction, a minimum of four natural attacks, regrowth of lost limbs, and the ability to speak to your chosen...

Hello. First of all thank you for your time and patience. The build you made is very good, but I would like a werewolf PC with a martial class, an appropriate race and a progression from level 5 to level 20, starting with 10500 GP and adding half the amount from the character creation for each level (example; level 5 gives you 10500 GP, level 6 gives 16000 GP, so the difference is 5500 GP, and dividing it by 2 you get 2250 GP, and that's the amount you can spend or keep when you progress from level 5 to 6, and so on). Thanks for your patience and I can't wait to get an answer!!

Being a werewolf PC affects your character a whole lot, but it's largely unimportant to your build. What you get is one natural attack, Damage Reduction, and some ability modifiers.

There's nothing build-defining in those benefits (except the auto-trip), and as such you have to decide yourself what theme you want to achieve.
If it's a blender, then just add more and more natural attacks while pumping your strength high with Rage/Mutagen. You'd definitely want Pounce sooner or later, though.

So what do you want your werewolf to be able to do?

It needs to disintegrate anything that crosses his eyes, both with or without magical abilities. I want it to be fast and I want it to have a discrete amount of AP too. Do you think that you could possibly make it happen? :)


I have no idea what an AP is... but have you considered Barbarian? If a Barbarian has any problems with someone/something, they smash that person/thing until the problem doesn't exist anymore.

(Edit) Can you clarify what you mean by "AP"?


TheMonkeyFish wrote:

I have no idea what an AP is... but have you considered Barbarian? If a Barbarian has any problems with someone/something, they smash that person/thing until the problem doesn't exist anymore.

(Edit) Can you clarify what you mean by "AP"?

I think that by AP she means"Ability Points", like the grades that you can put on abilities like diplomacy, etc...


@KidBash95

Ah, those are called "Skill Ranks" in the English edition.

===========

Eserioth wrote:
It needs to disintegrate anything that crosses his eyes, both with or without magical abilities. I want it to be fast and I want it to have a discrete amount of AP too. Do you think that you could possibly make it happen? :)

Easily done in many ways. But how much of a "werewolf" do you want it to be? My previous build was done to emulate a were-creature, but you don't seem particularly attached to fighting like an animal.

So how do you want your character to annihilate your enemies?

Natural attack blender?

Two-handed battlefield control?

Assassination?

Disabling with Combat Maneuvers?

Mounted charger?

Also, wolf is ironically one of the worse bases for a Lycanthrope. If your fursona doesn't have to be a wolf, then tiger is what I recommend.


Were-Wolf twohander:
Human, Mutation Warrior High Guardian Fighter 3 / Avenger Vigilante 2

Ability scores, 4th increase in strength
Str 19(21), Dex 7(15), Con 7(17), Int 14, Wis 18, Cha 11

Numbers in paranthesis are ability scores when in hybrid form. Always be in hybrid form.

Racial Traits:
Bonus Feat
Skilled

Traits (two extra from Additional Traits):
Cunning Liar (Wisdom for Bluff)
Power of Suggestion (you can now bluff the gods)
Resilient Martyr (triples long rest healing)
Caretaker (Heal as class skill)

Feats and levels
Fighter
1 Additional Traits, Aspect of the Beast
2 Combat Reflexes (B)
3 Healer's Hands

Vigilante
4
5 Power Attack (B), Signature Skill (Heal)

Relevant Class Features
Fighter's Reflexes - May use Strength instead of Dexterity to calculate number of Attack of Opportunities.
Mutagen - +4 Strength, -2 Intelligence, +2 Natural armor when activated
Dual Identity
Seamless Disguise
Social Grace - +4 to Bluff
Shield of Blades - Gain a Shield Bonus equal to the penalty from Power Attack

Skills
Bluff: +16
Disguise (Seamless Disguise): +24
Heal: +18

Skill ranks spent: 11/36

***

Magic Items:
Animal Mask (2,700)

Cloak of Resistance (1,000)

Gloves of Healing (2,500)

+1 O-Yoroi (2,850)

Traveler's Any-Tool (250)

9,300/10,500 gp

***

So this build is just the base as I now know that you're looking for a full 5-20 build.

The important part of this build is that you'll never spend a single second in your human form. We'll use the Vigilante class to hide your unshaven face behind a +20 circumstance bonus to disguise.

You're starting out with four natural attacks and can heal yourself for a considerable amount as a full-round action. The healing does require you to be a follower of a Lawful Good god, though.

You've got eight Attack of Opportunities per round, but at the moment you can only spend them on attacking approaching enemies with a reach weapon. The plan is to take at least two more levels in fighter, and by using Smash from the Air then bite through arrows, boulders and magic.

So you'll play catch with the enemies' projectiles, forcing them to come close. When they approach you they'll provoke Attack of Opportunities, and when they've finally closed the distance you can full-attack them with your natural attacks.

Does this sound like something you'd want to play?


Quote:
I don't want a character that breaks the game...

Ahmm... You may have come to the wrong place for advice. ;-)


Slim Jim wrote:
Quote:
I don't want a character that breaks the game...
Ahmm... You may have come to the wrong place for advice. ;-)

No no, everything is still pretty mid-tier. It should be fine.

Nobody has introduced their Sacred Geometry Wizard yet, or a Coordinated Charge Pouncer, or a Throat Slicer Grappler, or anything getting close to infinite damage.


Wonderstell wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

So this build is just the base as I now know that you're looking for a full 5-20 build.

The important part of this build is that you'll never spend a single second in your human form. We'll use the Vigilante class to hide your unshaven face behind a +20 circumstance bonus to disguise.

You're starting out with four natural attacks and can heal yourself for a considerable amount as a full-round action. The healing does require you to be a follower of a Lawful Good god, though.

You've got eight Attack of Opportunities per round, but at the moment you can only spend them on...

I like everything about this build, except the mutagen and constant hibrid form obligation. What do you think that instead of the mutation warrior we put a barbarian? I like the idea to make a lot of natural attacks and AoO's, to stop ranged attacks (both magical and non), but I thought that it could be a good idea to let it fight with a sharpened Falchion, so that it deals a 15/20 x2 crit. Do you know a way to make it even more aggressive and destructive?


Eserioth wrote:
I like everything about this build, except the mutagen and constant hibrid form obligation.

Setting aside Mutagen, why do you dislike the constant Hybrid form obligation? You'll still be able to "transform" into a human and back through the Dual Identity class feature.

Human - Social Identity
Hybrid Form - Vigilante Identity
Wolf Form - Actual transformation

You'll still look exactly like a human with Seamless Disguise, so it has no impact on social encounters. And when you want to look like your werewolf self, you just enter your Vigilante persona.

And fully transforming into a wolf is also fine, you just don't want to turn into your base form because your physical ability scores are dumped to allow for higher Int/Wis.

Eserioth wrote:
What do you think that instead of the mutation warrior we put a barbarian?

Certainly. You'd want both sooner or later, though, if you're looking for damage.

Eserioth wrote:
I like the idea to make a lot of natural attacks and AoO's, to stop ranged attacks (both magical and non), but I thought that it could be a good idea to let it fight with a sharpened Falchion, so that it deals a 15/20 x2 crit.

The plan is to use a Fauchard, which would give you 15-20/x2 with Reach.

But the moment you start attacking with a weapon during your turn, all your natural attacks will get a -5 attack penalty and you'd only apply half your strength bonus to damage. Also, you'd not be able to use your claws.

Eserioth wrote:
Do you know a way to make it even more aggressive and destructive?

Yes. The easiest way would be to be a were-tiger, but there's plenty of other alternatives.

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