How to make heavy armor worth it


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That's because I don't really like participating in debates. I didn't come here to convince other people to change their minds. I came here to share my opinion.

My opinion is that type of armor is viable in its own way and the balance as presented is decent.


It's fine to share your opinion, but when the premise of the thread is:
"Heavy armor is bad and not worth it"

And you come in and say, "Fake news!" with any support, that it's rather irritating for those of us who do see heavy armor as rather pointless as t was written in the playtest.

If strength mitigates movement speed and armor check penalties then it could even things up.

But my view is that heavy armor should innately over more defense over lighter armor, and I'm only think like one or two points more. In fact I'd rather see this with no option for strength to mitigate the speed or ACP penalties, because it at least then feels like a reasonable choice.

But it's hard to have a discussion when you wont really come up with reasons for your point of view.


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I've shared my reasons, they just are not enough for you.

I feel that they're balanced as is. If some or all of the penalties from wearing heavy armor are negated by having a high strength yet you make the armor inherently superior in its defense then it would become too advantageous and the idea of wearing anything else would serve no point provided you had a high enough strength.

Right now you can wear Light, Medium, or Heavy Armor without your defense changing to a significant degree with the exception of wearing Clumsy Heavy Armor with a high Dexterity Modifier.

With the very tight numbers that are used by Second Edition any significant difference in AC would offer too much of an advantage or disadvantage.

The only thing I'd like to see with the system as it currently is would be for the Clumsy trait to be negated on the armor that has it when a person's strength is high enough.


Biggest issue is how stat priority changes for classes.

Like a standard fighter cares about Str and Defensive stats, so they can afford to put their 4 stat ups in Str and the 3 stats that increase defense: Dex, Wis, Cha. So beyond a certain point the only mechanical reason for a fighter to use heavy armor is "I have a higher proficiency in that." Specifically a non-archer fighter is better off in Scale than Plate once they get 18 Dex.

Cleric on the other hand, presumably worries about Wis, Cha, and something they roll to hit people with in addition to defensive stats. So if a Cleric can swing heavy armor so they can leave their Dex low and boost Wis, Cha, Str, and Con they benefit greatly.


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PossibleCabbage wrote:

Biggest issue is how stat priority changes for classes.

Like a standard fighter cares about Str and Defensive stats, so they can afford to put their 4 stat ups in Str and the 3 stats that increase defense: Dex, Wis, Cha. So beyond a certain point the only mechanical reason for a fighter to use heavy armor is "I have a higher proficiency in that." Specifically a non-archer fighter is better off in Scale than Plate once they get 18 Dex.

Cleric on the other hand, presumably worries about Wis, Cha, and something they roll to hit people with in addition to defensive stats. So if a Cleric can swing heavy armor so they can leave their Dex low and boost Wis, Cha, Str, and Con they benefit greatly.

Fighters and Paladins have a higher Heavy Armor proficiency than Medium Armor. They would be better served going with Half Plate when their Dexterity reaches 14 or higher.

Especially when you consider that some or all of the penalties for armor will be negated by having a high strength score.


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Just to confirm what I was saying previously.

For a Fighter or a Champion with 18 Dexterity the only reason to go with Scale Armor over Half Plate Armor would be the difference in the Armor Check Penalty.

In all other circumstances they would have a higher amount of defensive stats both with AC and Reflex Saves in Half Plate as compared to Scale.

Depending on how much of the penalties are negated through having a high strength you may not have to deal with the Armor Check Penalty or Movement Penalties at all. I'm really curious to see how this ends up.


Gloom wrote:
For a Fighter or a Champion with 18 Dexterity the only reason to go with Scale Armor over Half Plate Armor would be the difference in the Armor Check Penalty.

Also the smaller speed reduction, though that is a thing that is presumably reduced by strength.


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Fighter at level 17 gains Armor Mastery, bringing Heavy Armor Proficiency to Master level and reducing the speed penalty from 10 to 5 feet for Heavy Armor.

Champion gains that at level 13.

If you rush Dexterity on either of those two examples then it's possible you may be better off with Medium Armor if you don't want to deal with a small amount of extra movement penalty. Honestly though it's not really that harsh with some of the mobility that their class feats can give them.


If high enough strength (and I mean like strength 18) completely eliminates the penalties to speed and armor check I would otherwise accept armor how it was presented in the playtest.


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I'd be ecstatic if it negates the Armor Check penalties and possibly removes Clumsy at extremely high end.


Gloom wrote:
I've shared my reasons, they just are not enough for you.

Then you can disengage. Despite not liking to engage in debate, this thread has more posts from you than any single other person.

Anyway, it is fine that you have that opinion, but posting your opinion every other reply with no variance is not constructive.

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