paizo.com Recent Posts in Clarification on interrupting spells with a readied action.paizo.com Recent Posts in Clarification on interrupting spells with a readied action.2021-03-14T23:47:23Z2021-03-14T23:47:23ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Clarification on interrupting spells with a readied action.Nimor Starseekerhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42ffi&page=6?Clarification-on-interrupting-spells-with-a#2972019-04-21T00:48:36Z2019-04-20T21:00:37Z<p>If you take damage when casting a spell you lose the spell.
<br />
Ref: CRB 331 under Concentration and Interrupted Spells </p>
<p>You can interrupt a spell with an Attack of opportunity, because AoOs are always resolved before the triggering action.
<br />
Ref: CRB page 248-249</p>
<p>You CAN interrupt a spell with a casting time of 1 round or longer with a ready attack action. Keep in mind you do not have to ready an attack action against a caster to interupt spell casting, you can simply take a normal turn on your initiative and damage the caster.
<br />
This implies that spells with casting times less than 1 round are not uninterruptible with ready attack actions. This claim is also bolstered for the rules on page 249.
<br />
Ref: CRB page 331</p>
<p>You CANNOT interrupt a spell casting with a ready attack action because readied offensive actions are resolved after the triggering event/action. The exception is spells with casting time of 1 round or longer.
<br />
Ref: CRB page 249</p>
<p>Exception: You CAN interrupt any spell with a ready action to cast dispel Magic.
<br />
Ref: CRB page 351</p>
<p>You may be asking yourself, why would you ready an action to attack someone casting a spell when it might not interrupt them depending of the spell casting time?</p>
<p>-You do not know what they are going to cast and it is not actually worth readying an action to shoot a spellcaster when you can simply delay action and jump in on a later initiative of your choosing or take your turn normally.
<br />
-If you can counter spell, it is worth readying an action.</p>
<p>Starfinders spell casters are extremely vulnerable if everyone can simply ready action to shoot the caster in the face and potentially ruin every spell casting possibility they have. It would ruin the game for casters. This is why spells with a casting time of 1 standard action is protected against readied attack actions.</p>If you take damage when casting a spell you lose the spell.
Ref: CRB 331 under Concentration and Interrupted Spells
You can interrupt a spell with an Attack of opportunity, because AoOs are always resolved before the triggering action.
Ref: CRB page 248-249
You CAN interrupt a spell with a casting time of 1 round or longer with a ready attack action. Keep in mind you do not have to ready an attack action against a caster to interupt spell casting, you can simply take a normal turn on your...Nimor Starseeker2019-04-20T21:00:37ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Clarification on interrupting spells with a readied action.BigNorseWolfhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42ffi&page=6?Clarification-on-interrupting-spells-with-a#2962019-04-22T13:47:01Z2019-04-20T16:59:04Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Ravingdork wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
<p>Seems to me there is no one right answer, as there isn't enough information available. </blockquote><p>Again with the either or fallacy. Either we have the 100% pure unadulterated clearly spelled out raw or there's no difference between the options.
<p>When you keep doing that it's evading a rules discussion, not having one. Demanding absolute proof for my position while demanding absolute disproof of your own is bad argumentation and worse posting. If thats what you need to do to have a point for your position, reconsider your position. </p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote>That's the problem with contradictions in rules; wither way you go, you're invalidating one side of the contradicting rule.</blockquote><p>If you wanted to read them together you could read the interrupting spell-casting line as a more specific exception to other readied actions. that would eliminate the contradiction without tossing out the rule entirely with inane mother may I rules lawyering.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote>We need this to be officially cleared up.</blockquote><p>You know full well paizo doesn't do faqs until a reprint.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote>Would you mind linking to the develoepr statements? I've only seen them in regards to AoO's, not readied actions.</blockquote><p>Again. First, reactions resolve directly after the triggering action. So if you cast a spell and someone readied to shoot you if you cast, if the spell has a casting time of 1 standard action you get the spell off before the AoO gets made <a href="https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5ljv8?Five-Differences-Between-Starfinder-Rules-and#29" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Linky </a>
<p>or are you complaining they said AoO when talking about a readied action?</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote></p>
<p>Seeing as we don't know the intent, it's no more a house rule than your interpretation. </blockquote><p>Horsefeathers. You know the intent of a rule that flat out says you go after someone if you try to shoot them in the face is to have you go after them if you try to shoot them in the face. What you're arguing here (without any evidence at all) is that "intelligent" use of the rules allows you to evade that.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote>Can you back that up with a rules quote please? I keep seeing you stating that the readied action happens after the event. Please show me the rule that says an offensive action can happen during an event. By your own interpretation, there doesn't seem to be one.</blockquote><p>It can't happen during an event that is one action.
<p>1) see the developer post i linked
<br />
2) It drops out of the rules. Your action is resolved after theirs in turn order. The reason you can't hit a one action spell while it's being cast with a readied action is you're always going after they are (when it's too late)</p>Ravingdork wrote:Seems to me there is no one right answer, as there isn't enough information available.
Again with the either or fallacy. Either we have the 100% pure unadulterated clearly spelled out raw or there's no difference between the options. When you keep doing that it's evading a rules discussion, not having one. Demanding absolute proof for my position while demanding absolute disproof of your own is bad argumentation and worse posting. If thats what you need to do to have a point...BigNorseWolf2019-04-20T16:59:04ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Clarification on interrupting spells with a readied action.Ravingdorkhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42ffi&page=6?Clarification-on-interrupting-spells-with-a#2952019-04-20T15:48:20Z2019-04-20T15:48:20Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">BigNorseWolf wrote:</div><blockquote>In the meantime we have to settle for the best conclusion we can reach and not pretend that our options are either epistemic nihlism or absolute assurance. What you're saying completely invalidates the readied action system and goes against how the developers have stated to resolve the contradiction. No, that's not a published FAQ but it's not nothing either.</blockquote><p>Seems to me there is no one right answer, as there isn't enough information available. That's the problem with contradictions in rules; wither way you go, you're invalidating one side of the contradicting rule.
<p>We need this to be officially cleared up.</p>
<p>Would you mind linking to the develoepr statements? I've only seen them in regards to AoO's, not readied actions.</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">BigNorseWolf wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
And yours completely invalidates the entire distinction between offensive and defensive readied actions. You can say that your trigger is when someone starts to X rather than when someone Xes. You think that's fixing the rules, that's called a house rule.</blockquote><p>Seeing as we don't know the intent, it's no more a house rule than your interpretation.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">BigNorseWolf wrote:</div><blockquote><p>Nope.</p>
<p>Magic missile: You ready to shoot. he starts to cast. you shoot. Your shot can't interrupt anything it's already happened</p>
<p>Magic circle of evil demony summoning: you ready to sthoot. He starts to cast. You shoot. Shot hits an ongoing spell. POOF.</blockquote><p>Can you back that up with a rules quote please? I keep seeing you stating that the readied action happens after the event. Please show me the rule that says an offensive action can happen during an event. By your own interpretation, there doesn't seem to be one.
<p>And if there is one, would that not support my interpretation as being possible?</p>BigNorseWolf wrote:In the meantime we have to settle for the best conclusion we can reach and not pretend that our options are either epistemic nihlism or absolute assurance. What you're saying completely invalidates the readied action system and goes against how the developers have stated to resolve the contradiction. No, that's not a published FAQ but it's not nothing either.
Seems to me there is no one right answer, as there isn't enough information available. That's the problem with...Ravingdork2019-04-20T15:48:20ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Clarification on interrupting spells with a readied action.BigNorseWolfhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42ffi&page=6?Clarification-on-interrupting-spells-with-a#2942019-04-21T00:46:54Z2019-04-20T15:30:40Z<div class="messageboard-quotee"> Ravingdork wrote:</div><blockquote>Yes, intelligent phrasing might allow someone to bypass a rule that was arguably placed in the game by mistake in the first place. We won't really know until proper clarification is released.</blockquote><p>In the meantime we have to settle for the best conclusion we can reach and not pretend that our options are either epistemic nihlism or absolute assurance. What you're saying completely invalidates the readied action system and goes against how the developers have stated to resolve the contradiction. No, that's not a published FAQ but it's not nothing either.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote>I'm not sure I really buy into your interpretation, as it invalidates another rule about losing spells (which, admittedly, may be the one that was put in by mistake). It also leads to other weird situations.</blockquote><p>And yours completely invalidates the entire distinction between offensive and defensive readied actions. You can say that your trigger is when someone starts to X rather than when someone Xes. You think that's fixing the rules, that's called a house rule.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote>For example, I ready an action to shoot the bad guy when he casts a spell. Bad guy begins casting a spell with a 10 minute casting time. Since the trigger takes effect after the event that triggered it</blockquote><p>Nope.
<p>Magic missile: You ready to shoot. he starts to cast. you shoot. Your shot can't interrupt anything it's already happened</p>
<p>Magic circle of evil demony summoning: you ready to sthoot. He starts to cast. You shoot. Shot hits an ongoing spell. POOF.</p>Ravingdork wrote:Yes, intelligent phrasing might allow someone to bypass a rule that was arguably placed in the game by mistake in the first place. We won't really know until proper clarification is released.
In the meantime we have to settle for the best conclusion we can reach and not pretend that our options are either epistemic nihlism or absolute assurance. What you're saying completely invalidates the readied action system and goes against how the developers have stated to resolve the...BigNorseWolf2019-04-20T15:30:40ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Clarification on interrupting spells with a readied action.Nimor Starseekerhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42ffi&page=6?Clarification-on-interrupting-spells-with-a#2932019-04-20T13:40:39Z2019-04-20T13:40:39Z<p>You got it wrong. </p>
<p>If the spell has a casting time of a standard action or less, you CANNOT interrupt the casting, because the spell is resolved first.</p>
<p>You can interrupt spells with casting time of 1 round or more. You do not even need to ready an action to get an attempt at interrupting the casting, you just have to damage the caster when casting.</p>You got it wrong.
If the spell has a casting time of a standard action or less, you CANNOT interrupt the casting, because the spell is resolved first.
You can interrupt spells with casting time of 1 round or more. You do not even need to ready an action to get an attempt at interrupting the casting, you just have to damage the caster when casting.Nimor Starseeker2019-04-20T13:40:39ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Clarification on interrupting spells with a readied action.Ravingdorkhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42ffi&page=6?Clarification-on-interrupting-spells-with-a#2922019-04-20T13:28:16Z2019-04-20T13:25:38Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">BigNorseWolf wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Ravingdork wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Looks like I'm a little late to the discussion, and I'm still making my way through the thread, but from what I've read so far, I agree with Maygar.</p>
<p>A trigger does not need to be an action. It can be literally any sort of stimulus or observable event whatsoever.</p>
<p>I'm not forced to say "I shoot him when he takes that talking action." It is totally rules legal for me to say "I shoot him when he says a specific word."</p>
<p><i>"Say 'what' again!"</i> </blockquote><p><i>First, reactions resolve directly after the triggering action. So if you cast a spell and someone readied to shoot you if you cast, if the spell has a casting time of 1 standard action you get the spell off before the AoO gets made</i>.-<a href="https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5ljv8?Five-Differences-Between-Starfinder-Rules-and#29" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Linky </a>
<p>What you're arguing is that you can evade that bit of rules with clever wordplay and clever rules interpretation that has zero evidence in the rules. Just because your interpretation hasn't been specifically denounced doesn't make it right, valid, or evidenced.</p>
<p>There is no, zero, nada, absolutely no reason for the rule of how readied offensive actions work to work they way they do if you can make them act like defensive readied actions with a mere change of phrasing. It's like saying you can shoot all the endangered animals you want as long as you say "booya" first. </p>
<p>The issue isn't whether you can ready if he says what or not. You absolutely can. What you need to be true is that the action of spellcasting is divisible and that is absolutely not evidenced.
<br />
</blockquote><p>Yes, intelligent phrasing might allow someone to bypass a rule that was arguably placed in the game by mistake in the first place. We won't really know until proper clarification is released.
<p>I'm not sure I really buy into your interpretation, as it invalidates another rule about losing spells (which, admittedly, may be the one that was put in by mistake). It also leads to other weird situations.</p>
<p>For example, I ready an action to shoot the bad guy when he casts a spell. Bad guy begins casting a spell with a 10 minute casting time. Since the trigger takes effect after the event that triggered it, I'm either stuck waiting for 10 minutes or I take my normal turn on my next initiative count, effectively having skipped my turn EVEN THOUGH THE TRIGGERING EVENT OCCURED!</p>
<p>I doubt either one of those scenarios was intended.</p>BigNorseWolf wrote:Ravingdork wrote:Looks like I'm a little late to the discussion, and I'm still making my way through the thread, but from what I've read so far, I agree with Maygar.
A trigger does not need to be an action. It can be literally any sort of stimulus or observable event whatsoever.
I'm not forced to say "I shoot him when he takes that talking action." It is totally rules legal for me to say "I shoot him when he says a specific word."
"Say 'what' again!"
First, reactions...Ravingdork2019-04-20T13:25:38ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Clarification on interrupting spells with a readied action.Claxonhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42ffi&page=6?Clarification-on-interrupting-spells-with-a#2912019-04-19T20:49:05Z2019-04-19T20:49:05Z<p>No offense, but a post by the developer that isn't flagged as an FAQ post seems more like the developer stating their opinion.</p>
<p>However, I do see it as intention. Still, the references to interrupting spell casting need to be revised and eliminated if that is there intention. So to me the question remains.</p>
<p>Also, I missed that link when I posted due to the formatting, but that's on me.</p>No offense, but a post by the developer that isn't flagged as an FAQ post seems more like the developer stating their opinion.
However, I do see it as intention. Still, the references to interrupting spell casting need to be revised and eliminated if that is there intention. So to me the question remains.
Also, I missed that link when I posted due to the formatting, but that's on me.Claxon2019-04-19T20:49:05ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Clarification on interrupting spells with a readied action.Garretmanderhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42ffi&page=6?Clarification-on-interrupting-spells-with-a#2902019-04-19T17:14:40Z2019-04-19T17:14:40Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Claxon wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I'm assuming there is still no official clarification?</p>
<p>I don't really want to debate the merits of allowing readied actions to interrupt spells despite the "offensive actions happen after rule", I just want to know if we have a conclusion. </blockquote><p>click the link? If it's true for spells, it's true for other actions.Claxon wrote:I'm assuming there is still no official clarification?
I don't really want to debate the merits of allowing readied actions to interrupt spells despite the "offensive actions happen after rule", I just want to know if we have a conclusion.
click the link? If it's true for spells, it's true for other actions.Garretmander2019-04-19T17:14:40ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Clarification on interrupting spells with a readied action.Claxonhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42ffi&page=6?Clarification-on-interrupting-spells-with-a#2892019-04-19T17:01:30Z2019-04-19T17:01:30Z<p>I'm assuming there is still no official clarification?</p>
<p>I don't really want to debate the merits of allowing readied actions to interrupt spells despite the "offensive actions happen after rule", I just want to know if we have a conclusion.</p>I'm assuming there is still no official clarification?
I don't really want to debate the merits of allowing readied actions to interrupt spells despite the "offensive actions happen after rule", I just want to know if we have a conclusion.Claxon2019-04-19T17:01:30ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Clarification on interrupting spells with a readied action.BigNorseWolfhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42ffi&page=6?Clarification-on-interrupting-spells-with-a#2882019-04-20T18:32:20Z2019-04-19T16:49:06Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Ravingdork wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Looks like I'm a little late to the discussion, and I'm still making my way through the thread, but from what I've read so far, I agree with Maygar.</p>
<p>A trigger does not need to be an action. It can be literally any sort of stimulus or observable event whatsoever.</p>
<p>I'm not forced to say "I shoot him when he takes that talking action." It is totally rules legal for me to say "I shoot him when he says a specific word."</p>
<p><i>"Say 'what' again!"</i> </blockquote></blockquote><p><i>First, reactions resolve directly after the triggering action. So if you cast a spell and someone readied to shoot you if you cast, if the spell has a casting time of 1 standard action you get the spell off before the AoO gets made</i>.-<a href="https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5ljv8?Five-Differences-Between-Starfinder-Rules-and#29" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Linky </a>
<p>What you're arguing is that you can evade that bit of rules with clever wordplay and clever rules interpretation that has zero evidence in the rules. Just because your interpretation hasn't been specifically denounced doesn't make it right, valid, or evidenced.</p>
<p>There is no, zero, nada, absolutely no reason for the rule of how readied offensive actions work to work they way they do if you can make them act like defensive readied actions with a mere change of phrasing. It's like saying you can shoot all the endangered animals you want as long as you say "booya" first. </p>
<p>The issue isn't whether you can ready if he says what or not. You absolutely can. What you need to be true is that the action of spellcasting is divisible and that is absolutely not evidenced.</p>Ravingdork wrote:Looks like I'm a little late to the discussion, and I'm still making my way through the thread, but from what I've read so far, I agree with Maygar.
A trigger does not need to be an action. It can be literally any sort of stimulus or observable event whatsoever.
I'm not forced to say "I shoot him when he takes that talking action." It is totally rules legal for me to say "I shoot him when he says a specific word."
"Say 'what' again!"
First, reactions resolve directly...BigNorseWolf2019-04-19T16:49:06ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Clarification on interrupting spells with a readied action.Garretmanderhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42ffi&page=6?Clarification-on-interrupting-spells-with-a#2872019-04-19T16:47:42Z2019-04-19T16:47:42Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Ravingdork wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Garretmander wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Ravingdork wrote:</div><blockquote>SuperBidi seems to have the right of it. In any event, I'm only addressing "what constitutes a valid triggering condition" at this time. </blockquote>Sure, but when determining if the readied action happens first or second, you have to figure out what action the trigger was a part of. </blockquote>It seems unclear to me whether the before and after bit should even be a rule. I don't see much point in debating it until a FAQ or errata can clear up the apparant contradictions in the rules first. </blockquote><p>Where I don't see a contradiction. A trigger must be something that happens in the combat rules, not the description of what's happening in combat.
<p>If it's offensive it happens after, if defensive before.</p>
<p>Either way... I'm going to hop off this treadmill for a while.</p>Ravingdork wrote:Garretmander wrote: Ravingdork wrote:SuperBidi seems to have the right of it. In any event, I'm only addressing "what constitutes a valid triggering condition" at this time.
Sure, but when determining if the readied action happens first or second, you have to figure out what action the trigger was a part of. It seems unclear to me whether the before and after bit should even be a rule. I don't see much point in debating it until a FAQ or errata can clear up the apparant...Garretmander2019-04-19T16:47:42ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Clarification on interrupting spells with a readied action.Ravingdorkhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42ffi&page=6?Clarification-on-interrupting-spells-with-a#2862019-04-19T16:44:26Z2019-04-19T16:43:48Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Garretmander wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Ravingdork wrote:</div><blockquote>SuperBidi seems to have the right of it. In any event, I'm only addressing "what constitutes a valid triggering condition" at this time. </blockquote>Sure, but when determining if the readied action happens first or second, you have to figure out what action the trigger was a part of. </blockquote><p>It seems unclear to me whether the before and after bit should even be a rule. I don't see much point in debating it until a FAQ or errata can clear up the apparant contradictions in the rules first.Garretmander wrote:Ravingdork wrote:SuperBidi seems to have the right of it. In any event, I'm only addressing "what constitutes a valid triggering condition" at this time.
Sure, but when determining if the readied action happens first or second, you have to figure out what action the trigger was a part of. It seems unclear to me whether the before and after bit should even be a rule. I don't see much point in debating it until a FAQ or errata can clear up the apparant contradictions in the...Ravingdork2019-04-19T16:43:48ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Clarification on interrupting spells with a readied action.Garretmanderhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42ffi&page=6?Clarification-on-interrupting-spells-with-a#2852019-04-19T16:38:53Z2019-04-19T16:38:53Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Ravingdork wrote:</div><blockquote>SuperBidi seems to have the right of it. In any event, I'm only addressing "what constitutes a valid triggering condition" at this time. </blockquote><p>Sure, but when determining if the readied action happens first or second, you have to figure out what action the trigger was a part of.Ravingdork wrote:SuperBidi seems to have the right of it. In any event, I'm only addressing "what constitutes a valid triggering condition" at this time.
Sure, but when determining if the readied action happens first or second, you have to figure out what action the trigger was a part of.Garretmander2019-04-19T16:38:53ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Clarification on interrupting spells with a readied action.Garretmanderhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42ffi&page=6?Clarification-on-interrupting-spells-with-a#2842019-04-19T16:36:50Z2019-04-19T16:36:50Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">SuperBidi wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Garretmander wrote:</div><blockquote>As you get further in, you'll realize this interpretation makes magic missile the perfect counterspell.</blockquote><p>Magic Missile can't disrupt spellcasting.
<p>"Normally, you can concentrate even in a distracting situation, but if you’re casting a spell and you take damage from either a successful attack that targeted your AC or from an effect that you failed a saving throw against, the spell fails." </blockquote><p>Neat, I didn't realize that.
<p>Still, the whole reason this debate popped up is that concentration was thrown in the bin. To keep casters relevant, they tried to make it so readied actions can't disrupt spellcasting of a full action or less.</p>
<p>This had the knock-on effect of readied actions not disrupting most anything.</p>SuperBidi wrote:Garretmander wrote:As you get further in, you'll realize this interpretation makes magic missile the perfect counterspell.
Magic Missile can't disrupt spellcasting. "Normally, you can concentrate even in a distracting situation, but if you’re casting a spell and you take damage from either a successful attack that targeted your AC or from an effect that you failed a saving throw against, the spell fails." Neat, I didn't realize that. Still, the whole reason this debate popped...Garretmander2019-04-19T16:36:50ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Clarification on interrupting spells with a readied action.Ravingdorkhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42ffi&page=6?Clarification-on-interrupting-spells-with-a#2832019-04-19T16:36:03Z2019-04-19T16:36:03Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">SuperBidi wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Garretmander wrote:</div><blockquote>As you get further in, you'll realize this interpretation makes magic missile the perfect counterspell.</blockquote><p>Magic Missile can't disrupt spellcasting.
<p>"Normally, you can concentrate even in a distracting situation, but if you’re casting a spell and you take damage from either a successful attack that targeted your AC or from an effect that you failed a saving throw against, the spell fails." </blockquote><p>SuperBidi seems to have the right of it. In any event, I'm only addressing "what constitutes a valid triggering condition" at this time.SuperBidi wrote:Garretmander wrote:As you get further in, you'll realize this interpretation makes magic missile the perfect counterspell.
Magic Missile can't disrupt spellcasting. "Normally, you can concentrate even in a distracting situation, but if you’re casting a spell and you take damage from either a successful attack that targeted your AC or from an effect that you failed a saving throw against, the spell fails." SuperBidi seems to have the right of it. In any event, I'm only...Ravingdork2019-04-19T16:36:03ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Clarification on interrupting spells with a readied action.Ravingdorkhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42ffi&page=6?Clarification-on-interrupting-spells-with-a#2822019-04-19T16:40:07Z2019-04-19T16:31:24Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">SuperBidi wrote:</div><blockquote><p> 200 posts on readied actions just proves that ready actions are just bugged in Starfinder.
</p>
I quite love the fact that you can't aim at someone and tell him to drop his weapon or you shoot, and actually shoot before he manages to finish any action. I mean, it's basic logic, you are aiming, you just need to press the trigger, but the guy can freely aim and shoot at you before you're able to press this trigger. Or just move behind a wall so you can't shoot at him. Or teleport away, or close the door, whatever.</p>
<p>Eye-hand coordination reaction time for a normal human is around 200-300ms. For an experienced adventurer in a tense situation, it should be under 200ms. There is absolutely nothing you can do in such a short notice. Starfinder ready action are just illogical, and should be rewritten. </p>
<p>Pathfinder ready actions were quite fine by the way... </blockquote><p>As long as readied actions don't somehow invalidate initiative, I totally agree.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">HammerJack wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I was referring specifically to this rule:</p>
<p>"If your readied action is purely defensive, such as choosing the total defense action if a foe you are facing shoots at you, it occurs just before the event that triggered it. If the readied action is not a purely defensive action, such as shooting a foe if he shoots at you, it takes place immediately after the triggering event. If you come to your next turn and have not yet performed your readied action, you don’t get to take the readied action (though you can ready the same action again)."</blockquote><p>So what happens when a readied action is neither offensive or defensive in nature? For example, I turn off the light switch when they enter the room.SuperBidi wrote:200 posts on readied actions just proves that ready actions are just bugged in Starfinder.
I quite love the fact that you can't aim at someone and tell him to drop his weapon or you shoot, and actually shoot before he manages to finish any action. I mean, it's basic logic, you are aiming, you just need to press the trigger, but the guy can freely aim and shoot at you before you're able to press this trigger. Or just move behind a wall so you can't shoot at him. Or teleport...Ravingdork2019-04-19T16:31:24ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Clarification on interrupting spells with a readied action.SuperBidihttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42ffi&page=6?Clarification-on-interrupting-spells-with-a#2812019-04-19T16:10:36Z2019-04-19T16:10:36Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Garretmander wrote:</div><blockquote>As you get further in, you'll realize this interpretation makes magic missile the perfect counterspell.</blockquote><p>Magic Missile can't disrupt spellcasting.
<p>"Normally, you can concentrate even in a distracting situation, but if you’re casting a spell and you take damage from either a successful attack that targeted your AC or from an effect that you failed a saving throw against, the spell fails."</p>Garretmander wrote:As you get further in, you'll realize this interpretation makes magic missile the perfect counterspell.
Magic Missile can't disrupt spellcasting. "Normally, you can concentrate even in a distracting situation, but if you’re casting a spell and you take damage from either a successful attack that targeted your AC or from an effect that you failed a saving throw against, the spell fails."SuperBidi2019-04-19T16:10:36ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Clarification on interrupting spells with a readied action.Garretmanderhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42ffi&page=6?Clarification-on-interrupting-spells-with-a#2802019-04-19T16:04:49Z2019-04-19T16:04:49Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Ravingdork wrote:</div><blockquote><p>Looks like I'm a little late to the discussion, and I'm still making my way through the thread, but from what I've read so far, I agree with Maygar.</p>
<p>A trigger does not need to be an action. It can be literally any sort of stimulus or observable event whatsoever.</p>
<p>I'm not forced to say "I shoot him when he takes that talking action." It is totally rules legal for me to say "I shoot him when he says a specific word."</p>
<p><i>"Say 'what' again!"</i> </blockquote><p>As you get further in, you'll realize this interpretation makes magic missile the perfect counterspell.
<p>The trigger might not be a specific action, but the readied offensive action must still happen after the action the trigger was part of. (with specific exceptions, like leaving a square).</p>
<p>I don't see any problem with interrupting free action talking, but <i>technically</i> it happens after the free action is over. Good time as a GM to just let it slide to keep the table moving.</p>Ravingdork wrote:Looks like I'm a little late to the discussion, and I'm still making my way through the thread, but from what I've read so far, I agree with Maygar.
A trigger does not need to be an action. It can be literally any sort of stimulus or observable event whatsoever.
I'm not forced to say "I shoot him when he takes that talking action." It is totally rules legal for me to say "I shoot him when he says a specific word."
"Say 'what' again!"
As you get further in, you'll realize...Garretmander2019-04-19T16:04:49ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Clarification on interrupting spells with a readied action.Ravingdorkhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42ffi&page=6?Clarification-on-interrupting-spells-with-a#2792019-04-19T14:49:28Z2019-04-19T14:38:29Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">BigNorseWolf wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Magyar5 wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I am not rules lawyering anything.
</p>
</blockquote><p>You have created , out of whole cloth, the idea that there is a start and an end to actions that is not hinted or implied by the rules, at all.
<p>You have argued that I ready to shoot someone that casts wouldn't work, but readying to shoot someone that STARTS casting would.</p>
<p>That is absolutely rules lawyering. </blockquote><p>Looks like I'm a little late to the discussion, and I'm still making my way through the thread, but from what I've read so far, I agree with Maygar.
<p>A trigger does not need to be an action. It can be literally any sort of stimulus or observable event whatsoever.</p>
<p>I'm not forced to say "I shoot him when he takes that talking action." It is totally rules legal for me to say "I shoot him when he says a specific word."</p>
<p><i>"Say 'what' again!"</i></p>BigNorseWolf wrote:Magyar5 wrote:I am not rules lawyering anything.
You have created , out of whole cloth, the idea that there is a start and an end to actions that is not hinted or implied by the rules, at all. You have argued that I ready to shoot someone that casts wouldn't work, but readying to shoot someone that STARTS casting would.
That is absolutely rules lawyering. Looks like I'm a little late to the discussion, and I'm still making my way through the thread, but from what I've...Ravingdork2019-04-19T14:38:29ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Clarification on interrupting spells with a readied action.Owen KC Stephens (alias of OWEN STEPHENS)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs42ffi&page=6?Clarification-on-interrupting-spells-with-a#2782019-04-19T13:07:26Z2019-04-19T13:05:57Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">BigNorseWolf wrote:</div><blockquote> A grenade might work if they fail the save would t it? </blockquote><p>If you take damage from an effect you fail a save against, while you are casting a spell, you lose concentration and the spell fails.
<p>The question is timing. People can't normally lob a grenade at you as an attack of opportunity.</p>
<p>If the spell has a long casting time (1 round or more), you are much more vulnerable.</p>BigNorseWolf wrote:A grenade might work if they fail the save would t it?
If you take damage from an effect you fail a save against, while you are casting a spell, you lose concentration and the spell fails. The question is timing. People can't normally lob a grenade at you as an attack of opportunity.
If the spell has a long casting time (1 round or more), you are much more vulnerable.Owen KC Stephens (alias of OWEN STEPHENS)2019-04-19T13:05:57ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Clarification on interrupting spells with a readied action.Nimor Starseekerhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42ffi&page=6?Clarification-on-interrupting-spells-with-a#2772019-04-19T07:17:13Z2019-04-19T07:17:13Z<p>They concluded using triggering actions/events to interrupt the targets turn if the conditions are met. Example:</p>
<p>Triggering event/action: Someone opens the door.
<br />
Readied offensive action: I throw my grenade at that someone.</p>They concluded using triggering actions/events to interrupt the targets turn if the conditions are met. Example:
Triggering event/action: Someone opens the door.
Readied offensive action: I throw my grenade at that someone.Nimor Starseeker2019-04-19T07:17:13ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Clarification on interrupting spells with a readied action.BigNorseWolfhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42ffi&page=6?Clarification-on-interrupting-spells-with-a#2762019-04-19T06:27:09Z2019-04-19T06:27:09Z<p>Did they conclude never ready an offensive action?</p>Did they conclude never ready an offensive action?BigNorseWolf2019-04-19T06:27:09ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Clarification on interrupting spells with a readied action.Nimor Starseekerhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42ffi&page=6?Clarification-on-interrupting-spells-with-a#2752019-04-19T05:52:23Z2019-04-19T05:52:23Z<p>Basics4Gamers did a delayed and readied action video that is relevant to parts of this topic.</p>
<p>https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z77tVryOOY&feature=youtu.be</p>Basics4Gamers did a delayed and readied action video that is relevant to parts of this topic.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z77tVryOOY&feature=youtu.beNimor Starseeker2019-04-19T05:52:23ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Clarification on interrupting spells with a readied action.Carla the Profanehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42ffi&page=6?Clarification-on-interrupting-spells-with-a#2742019-01-20T03:19:10Z2019-01-19T12:05:36Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Ascalaphus wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Carla the Profane wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I find it reassuring that the first rules discussion in SF that rakes up this many posts is about something as trivial and as easily adjusted by the GM as this. It shows that a lot of changes to the rules from PF were implemented correctly.</p>
<p>The only time this should be relevant is in a life or death situation for a PC playing SFS, and even then it's a quick call by the GM. So let's just all press that FAQ button, leave the discussions up to the people you're paying to do so and keep the forums focused on what matters more: immersion and feedback. </blockquote><p>I don't think it's trivial. Methods to reliably hit spellcasters are quite available (EAC weapons, especially in the hands of NPCs who all have high to-hit; magic missile; grenades).
<p>Also, with no concentration checks, getting damaged is really the end of your spell.</p>
<p>Understanding exactly what you can <i>and cannot</i> do to interrupt a spellcaster is key to good tactics for players and GM.</p>
<p>My understanding is as follows:</p>
<p>• Readied actions to attack are not purely defensive actions, and thus resolve after the triggering event. (p. 249) So you can't interrupt most spells this way. That's intentional; there's a lot of accurate ways to hit a spellcaster, if ready actions to interrupt were easy spellcasting would become too fragile. This design though was something they were fiddling with right up until it was time for a final text to send to the printer and there's some inconsistencies and bad examples still in there. It's a first printing of a new game, that's to be expected. We need to do a bit more RAI-guessing than in more established games.</p>
<p>• Attacks of Opportunity do interrupt spellcasting. It's one of the only three things in Starfinder that provoke for a reason. (p. 246)</p>
<p>• You can only break someone's concentration by making them fail a save or hitting them with a to-hit roll. (p. 331) Plain damage isn't enough. A grenade exploding nearby or a magic missile does not interrupt concentration. And both of... </blockquote><p>The reason I say it's trivial is because I have fine GMs like yourself whom I trust to rule like you yourself did in your post in order to keep a balanced game. And this thread is not about finding a good GM.
<p>That said, Nimor Starseeker has a point. I also learned a bit about the rules while reading this thread!</p>Ascalaphus wrote:Carla the Profane wrote:I find it reassuring that the first rules discussion in SF that rakes up this many posts is about something as trivial and as easily adjusted by the GM as this. It shows that a lot of changes to the rules from PF were implemented correctly.
The only time this should be relevant is in a life or death situation for a PC playing SFS, and even then it's a quick call by the GM. So let's just all press that FAQ button, leave the discussions up to the people...Carla the Profane2019-01-19T12:05:36ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Clarification on interrupting spells with a readied action.BigNorseWolfhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42ffi&page=6?Clarification-on-interrupting-spells-with-a#2732019-01-19T17:15:31Z2019-01-19T08:00:22Z<p>A grenade might work if they fail the save would t it?</p>A grenade might work if they fail the save would t it?BigNorseWolf2019-01-19T08:00:22Z