Bards...alternatives to the class abilities?


Advice


So I like the idea of a "bard" as a pseudo rogue who has opted to learn magic instead of Rogue talents, sneak attack, evasion, etc however that is about where my love for the bard ends. I hate the whole preformer stitch, the jack of all trades is a no-go, the Lore expert i'm definitely NOT feeling, etc. Is there a viable pseudo bard which is set up like the rogue but with different class abilities (still keeping the spell casting of more or less the bard spell list), or perhaps a bard archetype that might be more aligned to what i'm looking for?

NOTE: i'm not looking for multi-class options here due to campaign restrictions. Rather I'm looking for a single class, partial caster class, with similar weapons, armor and skills to the rogue.


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First thing that jumps to mind is the ELDRITCH SCOUNDREL rogue archetype.

There are a lot of Bard archetypes too, and some of them trade away bardic performance, spells, you name it.


archeologist or Busker(who can and should Take 'juggler' as, well per advice)


Investigator maybe?

Scarab Sages

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The Questioner archetype for Investigator literally gets bardic spell casting.


Arcane Trickster? Maybe just Wizard? Alchemists have a lot of Skills and use magic. There is a Tombraider Archetype that might be what you want.


I think archaeologist is the closest to what the poster is looking for, but I'm not sure why anyone wouldn't like being good at lore. You could play that as either studying in your off time or just happening to know some piece of critical information through sheer luck.


Melkiador wrote:
I think archaeologist is the closest to what the poster is looking for, but I'm not sure why anyone wouldn't like being good at lore.

Being good at lore has far reaching implications about just how much the character knows about the world around them. My campaign is a low magic setting similar to a 12th century Game of Thrones sorta feel where the characters often times know very little about the greater world around them. Thus I'm having to consider very carefully classes like the bard which are not only very skilled but which also have access to divination and communications magics.

As for your archaeologist idea, that is not bad. I'll have to take a look at it.


A puppetmaster magus gets the bard spell list (as well as the magus one), but not performance, not lore other than being an int-based spellcaster; it's still more a fighter than a rogue tho'.

A dandy ranger is a step down in spellcasting ability but could otherwise fit your description I think.

Scarab Sages

Well, that hems you in pretty tight for choices. You'll certainly not want an investigator.

The hardest part to satisfy is the lack of skills part, so I'll mention that you don't have to invest skill points in in knowledge skills. Take up professions and know how to craft all sorts of mundane things. You could make a bard who's bad at lore, relatively speaking.

About the only thing I can think of that satisfies your parameters otherwise is Eldritch Scion Magus. They're a CHA based version, so no need to invest in intelligence. You could have a paltry 2 skill points per level. Go with a DEX build and pick up Stealth using a trait.


While not a Bard, the Cleric(Evangelist) gets bardic inspiration, and is a full caster. A number of spells can duplicate rouge skills, but as a Wis/Cha based character rather than an Int based one.

/cevah


One idea I toyed around with was the Magus: Sparrowhawk and using the Bard spells / spell casting mechanics + Rogue Talents vs Magus Arcana abilities.

Thoughts?


My buddy came up with a pretty cool homebrew archetype for Bard called Dauntless. It's like a Swashbuckler Bard concept. He made up everything for the archetype and it was really well balanced ;) Maybe you should try something similar? Come up with your own archetype as a homebrew thing and see if your GM is cool with it :)


Ryze Kuja wrote:

My buddy came up with a pretty cool homebrew archetype for Bard called Dauntless. It's like a Swashbuckler Bard concept. He made up everything for the archetype and it was really well balanced ;) Maybe you should try something similar? Come up with your own archetype as a homebrew thing and see if your GM is cool with it :)

Funny part is I am the DM in this campaign, but wanted to get some feedback on this before I drew the line in the sand and just wrote my own material. Partially because I always try to give a nod to compatibility and balance, and partially because I'm already writing a lot of material and don't want to reinvent the wheel.

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