Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
I have a dungeon I'm building with a specific hallway that is 5 ft. wide. They will be fighting a medium monster down there that has a 60 ft. cone breath weapon. How does a cone breath weapon work in a confined space like a narrow hallway? RAW makes me think no different, but I wanted to get some opinions before deciding to go with this monster.
Thanks a lot!
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Once upon a time fireballs funneled down narrow corridors and lightning bolts bounced off of walls.
Those days are gone. Now, any 'wasted' area in your effect due to narrow corridors and such has now effect. A 60' Cone in a 5' hall is just a 60' line.
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Dave Justus wrote: Once upon a time fireballs funneled down narrow corridors and lightning bolts bounced off of walls.
Those days are gone. Now, any 'wasted' area in your effect due to narrow corridors and such has now effect. A 60' Cone in a 5' hall is just a 60' line.
Yeah, that's what I figured. Thank you.
It depends on material of the wall. Wooden walls would likely be burnt to a crisp by a fire breath, stone will be eaten away by acid, etc, though a stone wall isn't likely to be destroyed easily.
Val'bryn2 wrote: It depends on material of the wall. Wooden walls would likely be burnt to a crisp by a fire breath, stone will be eaten away by acid, etc, though a stone wall isn't likely to be destroyed easily. Objects take half damage, and get to apply hardness. Most walls should be fine
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Name Violation wrote: Val'bryn2 wrote: It depends on material of the wall. Wooden walls would likely be burnt to a crisp by a fire breath, stone will be eaten away by acid, etc, though a stone wall isn't likely to be destroyed easily. Objects take half damage, and get to apply hardness. Most walls should be fine If the damage type is appropriate for destroying the material you don't halve it. Fire is appropriate for Wood. Acid is appropriate for Wood or Stone. Cold...is appropriate for breaking Fire. Lightning...someone is going to argue Wood and/or Stone but I think it isn't appropriate for breaking objects at all.
Dave Justus wrote: Once upon a time fireballs funneled down narrow corridors and lightning bolts bounced off of walls.
Those days are gone. Now, any 'wasted' area in your effect due to narrow corridors and such has now effect. A 60' Cone in a 5' hall is just a 60' line.
Good thing for the players! A level 5 Wizard could totally kill his own party with a Fireball by casting it down a 10' wide, 10' high dungeon corridor in 1st Edition. It was a 20' Radius Sphere that would conform to the space it was in: 34,000 cubic feet, so that would be a stretch of 10' hallway the better part of a mile long! I guess that was the reason to cast Delayed Action Fireball: to give you time to Teleport away.
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Scott Wilhelm wrote: It was a 20' Radius Sphere that would conform to the space it was in: 34,000 cubic feet, so that would be a stretch of 10' hallway the better part of a mile long! I think your math is a bit wrong. First, although I am not 100% sure I think the 1st edition burst was a hemisphere, not a sphere. Even if that isn't the case, a 10x10x10 section of hall is 1000 cubic feet, so it would be 34 such squares, or 340 feet long. Quite a ways, but nowhere near a mile.
Dave Justus wrote: Scott Wilhelm wrote: It was a 20' Radius Sphere that would conform to the space it was in: 34,000 cubic feet, so that would be a stretch of 10' hallway the better part of a mile long! I think your math is a bit wrong. First, although I am not 100% sure I think the 1st edition burst was a hemisphere, not a sphere. Even if that isn't the case, a 10x10x10 section of hall is 1000 cubic feet, so it would be 34 such squares, or 340 feet long. Quite a ways, but nowhere near a mile. LOL
Funny thing is you are both right and wrong. Fireball has been a sphere with a 20ft radius since I first read the text of AD&D PHB in 1979.
But absolutely no one bothered as far as I ever encountered to account for a what the actual AoE would be when you took that sphere and squashed it into a hemisphere against the ground. Heck I'm not even sure how much bigger the hemisphere would be though I'm sure someone with the math skills could tell me. They only worried about it when you fired it in a narrow hall way or smaller room(s) when the expansion could potentially engulf some or all of the party.
Dave Justus wrote: Scott Wilhelm wrote: It was a 20' Radius Sphere that would conform to the space it was in: 34,000 cubic feet, so that would be a stretch of 10' hallway the better part of a mile long! I think your math is a bit wrong. First, although I am not 100% sure I think the 1st edition burst was a hemisphere, not a sphere. Even if that isn't the case, a 10x10x10 section of hall is 1000 cubic feet, so it would be 34 such squares, or 340 feet long. Quite a ways, but nowhere near a mile. Just looked it up: 20' Radius Sphere from the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Player's Handbook.
My math? maybe: Volume of a Sphere:
4(3X20X20X20)/3 = 4 X 8000 = 32000 cubic feet.
Oh, you are right: I needed to divide by 10 again. 32-34 squares, depending on what you used for pi.
Kayerloth wrote: Dave Justus wrote: Scott Wilhelm wrote: It was a 20' Radius Sphere that would conform to the space it was in: 34,000 cubic feet, so that would be a stretch of 10' hallway the better part of a mile long! I think your math is a bit wrong. First, although I am not 100% sure I think the 1st edition burst was a hemisphere, not a sphere. Even if that isn't the case, a 10x10x10 section of hall is 1000 cubic feet, so it would be 34 such squares, or 340 feet long. Quite a ways, but nowhere near a mile. LOL
Funny thing is you are both right and wrong. Fireball has been a sphere with a 20ft radius since I first read the text of AD&D PHB in 1979.
But absolutely no one bothered as far as I ever encountered to account for a what the actual AoE would be when you took that sphere and squashed it into a hemisphere against the ground. Heck I'm not even sure how much bigger the hemisphere would be though I'm sure someone with the math skills could tell me. They only worried about it when you fired it in a narrow hall way or smaller room(s) when the expansion could potentially engulf some or all of the party. Ah, those were the days: every door opened toward you. Everybody had Spring Attack and Mounted Combat. And every weapon was an Exotic Weapon.
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Scott Wilhelm wrote: Dave Justus wrote: Scott Wilhelm wrote: It was a 20' Radius Sphere that would conform to the space it was in: 34,000 cubic feet, so that would be a stretch of 10' hallway the better part of a mile long! I think your math is a bit wrong. First, although I am not 100% sure I think the 1st edition burst was a hemisphere, not a sphere. Even if that isn't the case, a 10x10x10 section of hall is 1000 cubic feet, so it would be 34 such squares, or 340 feet long. Quite a ways, but nowhere near a mile. Just looked it up: 20' Radius Sphere from the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Player's Handbook.
My math? maybe: Volume of a Sphere:
4(3X20X20X20)/3 = 4 X 8000 = 32000 cubic feet.
Oh, you are right: I needed to divide by 10 again. 32-34 squares, depending on what you used for pi.
My wizards always used the volume numbers and just figured out how many squares were needed whenever you didn't have the space for the sphere. And you almost never had space for the sphere. Bouncing lightning bolts were also a great tool. Ah the good old days :)
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Ah, those were the days: every door opened toward you. Everybody had Spring Attack and Mounted Combat. And every weapon was an Exotic Weapon.
Whirlwind attack was worth taking. Great Cleave was fantastic. And Long sword was the best one handed sword. And everybody was using Spiked Chain.
Meirril wrote: Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Ah, those were the days: every door opened toward you. Everybody had Spring Attack and Mounted Combat. And every weapon was an Exotic Weapon.
Whirlwind attack was worth taking. Great Cleave was fantastic. And Long sword was the best one handed sword. And everybody was using Spiked Chain. Ohh,
I'm talking about a time before Whirlwind Attack or Great Cleave, long, long before...
Raise your hand if you've lost characters to incautiously cast Fireballs in enclosed spaces
*raises hand*
Kayerloth wrote: But absolutely no one bothered as far as I ever encountered to account for a what the actual AoE would be when you took that sphere and squashed it into a hemisphere against the ground. Heck I'm not even sure how much bigger the hemisphere would be though I'm sure someone with the math skills could tell me. We did this in middle school. I think we got something like a 20% increase in radius (been a few years so I can't remember exactly and am too lazy to do the math again).
And bouncing Lightning Bolts were nasty if you could convince your GM that you could aim perfectly.
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I would be a lot of fun to bring back some of these rules, honestly.
Scott Wilhelm wrote: Meirril wrote: Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Ah, those were the days: every door opened toward you. Everybody had Spring Attack and Mounted Combat. And every weapon was an Exotic Weapon.
Whirlwind attack was worth taking. Great Cleave was fantastic. And Long sword was the best one handed sword. And everybody was using Spiked Chain. Ohh,
I'm talking about a time before Whirlwind Attack or Great Cleave, long, long before... There was no long long before between feats existing and Whirlwind attack/Great Cleave. AD&D had a long run till 2.0 was released. Wasn't long after that 3.0 came and 3.5 was like 6 months later because 3.0 was so busted that it needed immediate fixes. Back before TSR was bought out by Wizards and TSR was desperate to make a buck selling you the same book AGAIN.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
The gap between 3.0 and 3.5 was a bit longer than 6 months. More like three years if I recall correctly.
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Hehe I think Scott, if I'm not mistaken, was having a bit of a joke. 'Everyone' then behaved as if they had those feats not that those feats actually existed in 1979 or so.
PS: 3.0-> 2000, 3.5 -> 2003 assuming one can trust the internet and near as I remember all 4 feats existed initially in 3.0 :D
Scott's talking about pre 3.x times but using 3.x terms. You could effectively spring attack as part of the basic combat and movement rules, and each weapon had to be purchased with a separate proficiency slot. The inclusion of Mounted Combat is a bit wrong, though. You didn't need any special skill to use a mount in combat (barring a few optional rules) - unlike Ride in 3.x, but I can't recall anything that allowed you to negate attacks on your mount as part of the basic rules.
Bjørn Røyrvik wrote: Scott's talking about pre 3.x times but using 3.x terms. You could effectively spring attack as part of the basic combat and movement rules, and each weapon had to be purchased with a separate proficiency slot. The inclusion of Mounted Combat is a bit wrong, though. You didn't need any special skill to use a mount in combat (barring a few optional rules) - unlike Ride in 3.x, but I can't recall anything that allowed you to negate attacks on your mount as part of the basic rules. Indeed you barely had proficiencies in the first few years of AD&D. And basically anyone could ride into combat. Generally you just wanted to do so on a Warhorse and not a Riding Horse. Non-weapon proficiencies were a thing of the future yet, a few years down the road into the later 80's (I think), the Dungeoneer's Survival Guide and Wilderness Survival Guide.
Anyway its about time to throw a
"Get off my lawn!"
into the works.
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This thread took a turn I didn't expect. Lol!
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