Sorcerer Bloodlines


General Discussion


Upon creating a sorcerer, I notice the only Bloodline that allows Primal spells is Fey. There are a couple of options for the other Spell Schools, but if you want Primal spells it seems your only choice atm is the Fey-line.

Would it be unreasonable to allow the Angelic Bloodline to have the option of Primal spells as well? I am sure there are Primal gods that would fit the theme.


As it is the sorcerer isn't really a viable class. Hopefully, we'll see the sorcerer go through a lot of evolution, including adding multiple beefed-up bloodlines.


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I think an elemental bloodline for an extra option of primal spells would make the most sense. But I would like to see some changes overall to make the sorcerer more unique.


I mean, how many bloodlines does the CRB really need? This is the type of thing that it's really easy to expand over time, which is what I expect they'll wind up doing.


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Tridus wrote:
I mean, how many bloodlines does the CRB really need? This is the type of thing that it's really easy to expand over time, which is what I expect they'll wind up doing.

As it stands there are 7 bloodlines, two options for every spell list except primal. So I think going for 8 in the CRB makes sense, and elemental seems like the logical choice for the primal list.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Wouldn't you need multiple bloodlines for elemental? I can see a fire-elemental bloodline having very different powers than an air-elemental.


Depending on how involved the bloodlines are they could go for small difference like with the draconic bloodline, but a more involved elemental bloodline with the four elementals getting fleshed out would be cool.

Also a correction for my previous post, there are currently 7 bloodlines but 3 of them is divine, 2 arcane and 1 each for primal and occult, so I don't know whether an elemental bloodline would be needed for a better "balance" of the options.


"More bloodlines" is one of those things that you can absolutely count on future books providing, even if space prevents more in the initial book. PF1 has 49 bloodlines, and we know we're getting at least one more (phoenix) before they stop new material. The first player options book is almost certain to have a bunch of bloodlines.


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Starfox wrote:
As it is the sorcerer isn't really a viable class. Hopefully, we'll see the sorcerer go through a lot of evolution, including adding multiple beefed-up bloodlines.

Wut

I'm a bit skeptical about how well it the divine bloodlines function as written, and to a lesser extent the aberrant bloodline. But the primal and arcane spell lists are great, and any class with access to it is perfectly viable. Having great charisma also makes them amazing with Demoralize as a third action.


Captain Morgan wrote:
Starfox wrote:
As it is the sorcerer isn't really a viable class. Hopefully, we'll see the sorcerer go through a lot of evolution, including adding multiple beefed-up bloodlines.

Wut

I'm a bit skeptical about how well it the divine bloodlines function as written, and to a lesser extent the aberrant bloodline. But the primal and arcane spell lists are great, and any class with access to it is perfectly viable. Having great charisma also makes them amazing with Demoralize as a third action.

Agreed, our Part 1/4/7 Sorcerer was a key player.

As a random note Quicken Spell with a pair of blasts is BRUTAL.


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Captain Morgan wrote:
Starfox wrote:
As it is the sorcerer isn't really a viable class. Hopefully, we'll see the sorcerer go through a lot of evolution, including adding multiple beefed-up bloodlines.

Wut

I'm a bit skeptical about how well it the divine bloodlines function as written, and to a lesser extent the aberrant bloodline. But the primal and arcane spell lists are great, and any class with access to it is perfectly viable. Having great charisma also makes them amazing with Demoralize as a third action.

Yeah. My wife played a Silver Dragon Sorcerer in Mirroed Moon and loved it, while she was a useful member of the party too. That's pretty good for "not a viable class".


If anything, the sorcerer seemed better able to actually spit some spells out, since they're a spontaneous spellcaster. I think the most notable thing our Wizard did was cast Grease once on a goblin.


Honestly, if they patch the damage on heal/Harm to match their healing versions,* the divine sorcerer might be in a pretty decent spot. Spontaneous casting on heal and harm gives them a really flexible way to wreck people and out them back together.

*There's some evidence they might be doing this.


I can't say I would mind Heal/Harm getting boosted this way but dang would that be strong.

2d8/level scaling where 2d6/level is the standard for strong blasts is pretty good. Though with higher level blasts getting higher starting dice numbers it probably balances out.


That's single target damage, mind. The AoE effect is much weaker. From the Resonance test, for reference:

Quote:

Heal: You channel positive energy to heal

the living or damage the undead. There are three ways to cast this spell
depending on the number of actions you spend casting it.

Somatic: The spell has a range of touch. When using channel energy,
you restore 5d8+4 Hit Points to a willing living target, or deal that amount of positive damage to an undead target if you succeed at a melee touch attack. Creatures in the area must attempt a Fortitude save, taking half damage on a success, no damage on a critical success, or double damage on a critical failure.

Somatic, Verbal: The spell has a range of 30 feet and doesn’t require a touch attack when targeting an undead creature. An undead target must attempt a Fortitude save, taking half damage on a success, no damage on a critical success, or double damage on a critical failure.

Material, Somatic, Verbal: You disperse positive energy in a 30-foot aura. This functions as the 2-action version of the spell, but targets all living and undead creatures in the burst and reduces the amount of healing or damage to 2d8+4 (or 4 when using the wand).

And without a selective channel feat, the divine sorcerer will have a hard time utilizing the 3 action version anyway. So arcane and primal remain supreme at big AoE explosions.

By comparison, Disintegrate scales by 2d10 per level. I guess it might outpace Acid Arrow but the draw of that spell is the persistent damage anyway.

The other thing that I think would go a long way to improve the divine list is a cantrip that deals alignment damage. Right now arcane, primal, and alchemy are incredibly good for triggering elemental weaknesses. I think it would be cool if clerics got that treatment against undead and fiends.


Damn it, forum ate my edits mathing out how Harm would look with that buff compared to arcane/primal buffs. The short version is it is still significantly weaker per spell slot than the traditional blasters, but it is viable and would play very differently. It looks quite fun. Harm would basically be the Soothe to fireball's Heal.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Something I would not mind seeing is some bloodlines offer a choice at lv 1 for 2 different spell lists and you get to pick. Like infernal can be arcane or divine, and elemental bloodline can be primal or arcane, or an undead bloodline can be occult or divine for instance.


I'm not sure it's just me or everyone else, but I really dislike the name 'imperial bloodline'. It was originally called 'arcane bloodline' in First Edition. Why did Paizo decide to change the name? And even if the word 'arcane bloodline' cannot be used anymore, the name 'imperial bloodline' is not appropriate, I guess. I'm not a native English speaker but it implies an ancestor of the sorcerer was an emperor. Telling players that they cannot use this bloodline unless their PCs have royal blood would not be a good idea. Thus I think Paizo should rename this bloodline. 'Majestic bloodline', perhaps?


Aenigma wrote:
I'm not sure it's just me or everyone else, but I really dislike the name 'imperial bloodline'. It was originally called 'arcane bloodline' in First Edition. Why did Paizo decide to change the name? And even if the word 'arcane bloodline' cannot be used anymore, the name 'imperial bloodline' is not appropriate, I guess. I'm not a native English speaker but it implies an ancestor of the sorcerer was an emperor. Telling players that they cannot use this bloodline unless their PCs have royal blood would not be a good idea. Thus I think Paizo should rename this bloodline. 'Majestic bloodline', perhaps?

I dunno, Imperial might be one of those Golarion specific infusions. Ancient wizard kings are a dime a dozen in that setting. When you consider that 1 in 200 men are descended from Ghengis Khan in the real world, it isn't crazy to think that a similar number could be descended from Runelords or the Whispering Tyrant before he became a lich or whatever. Certainly, they could represent an equal or greater percent of the population that can trace their lineage to dragons or aberrations or whatever.

But because bloodlines can lie dormant for thousands of years, there isn't really a need to tie yourself to one specific royal family or whatever. I don't really see it as dictating flavor any more than the Arcane bloodline implying everyone on your family was a wizard a la PF1.


Maybe you are right, but I still cannot help being a little dissatisfied. By the way, I have always thought that an imperial bloodline sorcerer cannot boast about his heritage in Andoran or Absalom because it would surely make him be beheaded with the final blade almost immediately. Same goes for those sorcerers who foolishly reveals their demonic bloodline in front of paladins in Mendev.:)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Aenigma wrote:
Maybe you are right, but I still cannot help being a little dissatisfied. By the way, I have always thought that an imperial bloodline sorcerer cannot boast about his heritage in Andoran or Absalom because it would surely make him be beheaded with the final blade almost immediately. Same goes for those sorcerers who foolishly reveals their demonic bloodline in front of paladins in Mendev.:)

That's a tangent, but why would Andoran or Absalom behead people for their heritage? Descent from whatever ancestors you happen to have isn't a crime in either country, as far as I can tell. And I'm pretty sure that Andoran (on the count of being pretty much Hamilton with Dragons) and Abaslom (on the count of being quite sensible about it's PR) wouldn't touch the creepy Galtian instruments of death with a ten foot pole.

Please provide your exact reasoning, preferably with references to source material.


Oh, I'm sorry. I tried to write Andoran and Galt, not Andoran and Absalom. I have no idea why I ended up writing Andoran and Absalom instead, really. I cited Andoran and Galt because during the French and Russian Revolutions many royals died because they happened to have royal ancestors. Though Andoran experienced less bloodshed, I think Andorens would be very eager to antagonize those foolish enough to boast about their 'imperial' bloodline right in the middle of Almas.:) Now I come to think of it, maybe Absalom dislike royals or royalists too because it's a republic and the monarchs of Taldor and Cheliax(and other petty lords too, I suppose) have tried to conquer the City at the Center of the World many times.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Well, Andoran revolution strikes me like nothing close to the Great French Revolution or the 1918 Russian Revolution. In fact, Andoran is pretty much fantasy American War of Independence, idealism and all. George Washington didn't order British nobles executed for being British nobles, and neither did the revolutionary Andorese government. Unless I'm missing anything from reading the Andoran book, for all intent it seems to have undergone a mostly peaceful transition, except that the nobility was forced to abdicate their dominant role in the society.

Of course, how the people of Andoran would see somebody espouse the virtues of imeprialism is another matter, but I also am pretty sure that social stigma is the worst one could suffer for going on about how authoritarian empires were the best thing ever. Certainly not execution.

Absalom is not a republic. Neither the Primarch nor the Grand Council is elected by a popular vote. For practical purposes, it's pretty much an Italian city-state of yore. It's pretty much the same as Taldor and Cheliax with a narrow group of powerful individuals in charge, except that in case of Absalom there's no inheritance of power. There's pretty much zero reason for people to even remotely consider establishing a death penalty for being an imperial bloodline sorcerer there. Sure, Cheliax might have tried to conquer Absalom, but business is business. Russia might have fought with us a war after a war for ca. 1000 years, but we've never established a death penalty for being of Russian descent or put Russian citizens in Poland to the sword, corner cases excepted. Business is business, power is power, and countries which prize themselves as The Place and the Center of the World generally don't try to scare people who help them maintain such status away.

Galt is the only place in Golarion where bragging about noble blood in your veins might have gotten you to the chopping block. It's what makes Galt stand out from the rest of the setting and cements it as not-Revolutionary France gone horribly wrong.


Hmm. Does that mean it would be unwise for an imperial bloodline sorcerer to reveal his bloodline in Galt?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Given that the Grey Gardeners might go after you for whatever is the current affront to the Red Revolution? Certainly. One week it will be noble lineage, the next it will be wearing spectacles and knowing more than 1 foreign language. Galt is fantasy Khmer Rouge regime.


And honestly, why is your imperial bloodline sorcerer going around shoving their ancestry down peoples throats? Is the character just a prick? 99% of the time no one cares. Hell unless you’re family keeps a really thorough family tree going back probably thousands of years (extremely unlikely) your character probably doesn’t even know he/she is an imperial bloodline, all they know is “Hey I can cast magic!” Sorcerers aren’t usually known for their intellectual prowess and study skills...

As Gorbacz said, Galt is the possible exception though for literally anything depending on what day of the week it is.


Raylyeh wrote:

And honestly, why is your imperial bloodline sorcerer going around shoving their ancestry down peoples throats? Is the character just a prick? 99% of the time no one cares. Hell unless you’re family keeps a really thorough family tree going back probably thousands of years (extremely unlikely) your character probably doesn’t even know he/she is an imperial bloodline, all they know is “Hey I can cast magic!” Sorcerers aren’t usually known for their intellectual prowess and study skills...

As Gorbacz said, Galt is the possible exception though for literally anything depending on what day of the week it is.

Okay, so my Golarion familiarity is very limited but Galt sounds like LITERALLY the law system in Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, where you literally can get imprisoned for different things depending on what day it is and also what magic cards you do or don't use. XD


Hopefully this doesn’t offend anyone but FYI Edge, Galt is a country where an equivalent of the French Revolution on steroids has been going on for I think 40 years? Oh and the guillotines they use literally keep the souls of their victims. Preventing them from going to the boneyard or being resurrected. There’s more but that’s the nutshell version.

So potentially your FFTA laws could happen... for a week or so before some new group who know, deep in their hearts, that Tuesday’s configuration is unjust and for the people and in the spirit of The Revolution must be torn down!

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