I got a silly question about ancestry feat advancement.


Ancestries & Backgrounds


For some reason, I can't wrap my head around this. It seems stupid but here goes. when you select your race you get the ancestry feats, in the description, it reads as:
"At 1st level, you gain one ancestry feat, and you gain an additional ancestry feat every 4 levels thereafter..."

When you select your class it ALSO has an ancestry feat at 1 level and every 4th level.

Is this the "same" feat? To me, because it's in 2 different locations, I read it as 2 different feats. however, it feels like I'm double-dipping.


Ancestry feats are specifically to represent something from the ancestry. It is in no way related to class.

Which means, that even though they share a similar name, you're not getting the same thing. So, yes, you need to choose both. One feat for your class and one feat from your ancestry.

YOu should ignore the "Feat" part of naming things and more on what comes first. "Class" feat, "Ancestry" feat, "General Feats", "Skill" feats. All the same names that occupy different "slots" of your character generation.

Yeah... It seems really complicated, which is not that much, but it's a very unnecessary complication.


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The ancestry feat in the class table is the same ancestry feat from the ancestry description, yes. It is repeated in the class table, along with skill feats, general feats, and skill increases, so you don't have to look in 4 different places to know what types of things you should be getting each level. You can just look at the class table instead of having to also check the ancestry and other sections to know what kind of feats and such you get.


All right thanks, guys!


Now that Skill feats are also General feats. This means that you can absolutely select a skill feat with a general feat slot (but not the reverse).


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Also, don't forget to check out the latest update. You also get a heritage now on top of your 1st level ancestry feat.


Queo wrote:

For some reason, I can't wrap my head around this. It seems stupid but here goes. when you select your race you get the ancestry feats, in the description, it reads as:

"At 1st level, you gain one ancestry feat, and you gain an additional ancestry feat every 4 levels thereafter..."

When you select your class it ALSO has an ancestry feat at 1 level and every 4th level.

Is this the "same" feat? To me, because it's in 2 different locations, I read it as 2 different feats. however, it feels like I'm double-dipping.

They are the same feat.

I realized that this is not a silly question. It helps clarify what leveling up means in Pathfinder 2nd Edition. In the Presentation survey, Paizo asked whether having everything gained at a level, whether it came from the class or from another source, in a single list was a good idea. I said yes, but Queo's question illustrates the difficulties.

Pathfinder 1st Edition had benefits gained from leveling up in the class, such as more Sneak Attack hit dice for a rogue and more hit points, and benefits gained from leveling up as a character, such as feats and attribute score increases. Due to its different multiclassing rules, Pathfinder 2nd Edition has no need for separate class levels and character levels.

Looking at the Leveling Up rules on page 278 of the Playtest Rulebook, leveling up is based on Experience Points, and Experience Points are based on resolving challenges, so levels are not a feature of ancestry, background, nor class. Therefore, PF2 just has character levels, not class levels. Ancestry grants ancestry feats and heritage and other racial features at 1st level and more ancestry feats every 4 levels thereafter. Background grants some features at 1st level and no more. Class grants feats and features at every level, which are described in the Class section. A mysterious feature, described on page 18 under "GENERATING ABILITY SCORES" and on page 20 as "Step 4: Four Free Ability Boosts," grants four ability score boosts at 1st level and 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter. Castilliano in PF2 Forum Nomenclature called the mysterious "Step 4" ability score boosts Destiny. I called it Determination, but Destiny fits better for level-based ability score increases.

The confusion that Queo experienced is because the descriptions of level-based class features in the class descriptions also mention the level-based ancestry feats and level-based destiny ability score boosts, even though they are not granted by the class. I like the clarity of having one list of all feats and features gained at a new level, but since the list is filed under Class, the Pathfinder 2nd Edition Core Rulebook should be clearer that some of those new features come from Ancestry and Destiny rather than Class. A simple "From Ancestry" and "From Destiny" at the beginning of the description ought to be enough.


This is an effect of removing classic multi-classing. Since you can never change class, they can include things that previously depended on character level (the sum of all your class levels and racial HD) in the class table - everyone will get it at the same class level now.

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