Custom *Everything* Campaign - Advice?


Homebrew and House Rules


I want to try a campaign where, while NPCs and monsters use the standard stuff, almost everything the PCs have is customized by them.

The PCs won't choose a class. Instead, they'll buy abilities with class points. I want to give them enough points to edge over NPCs slightly.

Most of their gear will be custom built by them (piecemeal armor, custom weapons, and custom vehicles).

Their magic will use FFd20's MP system blended with Words of Power rules.

Any suggestions?


A different system like Scion or a White Wolf game may be a little better for the concept, since they use the ability buying system you're describing. It's easier to alter the setting in a different system than convert the whole system for an idea.

That said, I would avoid doing such a thing with Pathfinder. It's very class and level oriented. Between vatiant multiclassing, gestalt, frontloaded classes, and feats, there's enough diversity to the base skeleton of a character to do pretty much everything.


One way to create a more flexible pathfinder is to just change the archetype stacking rule(s). For example, allowing PCs to replace an altered ability or letting U. Monk get regular monk archetypes. This would make things a lot closer to the ability buy idea, but it would still remain limited to focused on class an level.

If you are going all the way ability buy. Then instead of having them choose classes, have them pick a trope (fighter, mage, rogue, etc.), and each has different # of points/lv and point costs for abilities.

Ex: A mage could gets discounts when choosing casting based abilities. A fighter gets them for damage based abilities. A rogue on skill based abilities.

With this you can change power lvs by changing the number of points a trope gets and when, without affecting other tropes. To make them better than NPCs just give them all more points than NPCs.

* Be careful of when calculating the power of abilities. Since abilities might seem strong (deserving of high cost) but in reality they are quite meh (may be a waste of points); or the opposite might happen.


Pathfinder is not a good system for this. A better solution would be to use another system Hero System is exactly what you are looking for. Everything is built using a point system. Even the equipment is built using the same rules. The only difference is in a heroic level campaign equipment is not purchased with points. It is either found as treasure, or purchased with cash.


I don't know if I entirely agree with the others... It's possible to do this well, and even has me writing down ideas to do something similar...

The only real problem is to make sure that a full BAB is so costly that you can't purchase even mildly low magic (the only way to afford magic being to not get it until much later in the game). The main things players will do is try to get a full bab -with- a great potential side-power.

Similarly with a full magic tree... shouldn't be possible to afford even a middle bab if you have a full magic tree... Other than that, I like the idea of being able to mixup your own abilities... it's not really different than just allowing them to homebrew their own archetypes from scratch (which I almost always end up doing with my players).

That being said... even though I like the idea... I do think it's far smarter and balancing to just write up archetypes that match what they visualize. I tested this out with a friend, and basically he started with trying to build a natural-attack character who could start with a full bab with multiple natural attacks, and a pounce ability. Expect that sort of mentality... :)


What this really entails is writing a different game system. While it is possible to do this, what you end up with after you are done is no longer Pathfinder. It would probably be easier to start completely from scratch instead of altering a game system that was not designed for it.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

While I find this project interesting, I agree with the others that it'll be a lot of work. I don't know if it'll be worth it.

There will certainly be a need for balancing stuff. There are many spells not meant for someone with a high attack bonuses, such as ranged touch attacks. Various spells get to ignore armor while physical combatants do not. Some spells are deliberately kept out of hands of fighters. For instance, a fighter with a shield spell will be able to do two-weapon fighting or do two-handed fighting and keep their shield bonus.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

If not actually using the system itself, I would recommend looking for ideas by reading over Mutants and Masterminds (SRD is here) which is a d20 based point buy system. It's used for superhero games but it can emulate any system, really, and you can see how to build up point-based abilities. Furthermore, it's about a billion times easier to grasp and build characters with than the HERO system with still 98% of its flexibility.

You could also look at M&M's cousin True20 which is not point-based, but is an adventure system boiled down to I think(?) (been a long time since I looked at it) three modular base classes (basically warrior, skillmonkey, caster) that can choose a variety of abilities to customize their focus--and then Pathfinderize that or take some of its ideas into Pathfinder (i.e., don't completely eliminate classes, but build a basic "chassis" classes your PCs can then uber-customize with buyable abilities or archetype packages).


I recently remembered something. A out-of-business RPG company, Guardians of Order, tried to make a hybrid of the their BESM system and DND 3.x way back. They tried to deconstruct the 11 base classes and assign points to every feature. This might be what you are looking for.

I suggest the stingy gamer edition if you don't know what you are getting into. Its cheaper, and seems to have most of the stuff that the revised edition has, but less pictures and more compact.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/374/BESM-d20-Stingy-Gamer-Edition?it=1

The deconstruction of the d20 system starts on p. 21.

White Wolf currently owns the BESM IP.


I remember there being a SRD version for it a while back. I think I found a copy.

http://www.faterpg.com/dl/animed20srd.pdf

The deconstruction of the d20 system, in this document, starts on p. 46.


I was organizing my PDFs and I found Eclipse: the Codex Persona among them. It looks like another Character Point system. Anybody have experience using it?


It's been tried. Many, many times. It's generally easier to play a game designed with that sort of thing in mind than it is to attempt to shoehorn such a change into Pathfinder and then attempt to fix all of the now-broken parts of the system that depended on the class paradigm. But go ahead and try it out! Alternately, discuss with each player what sort of character they want, pick a reasonably close base class, and design a custom archetype for it that makes sense, with the understanding that the archetype may need to be revised as the character levels up and the player wants to go a different direction.


Sphynx wrote:

I don't know if I entirely agree with the others... It's possible to do this well, and even has me writing down ideas to do something similar...

The only real problem is to make sure that a full BAB is so costly that you can't purchase even mildly low magic (the only way to afford magic being to not get it until much later in the game). The main things players will do is try to get a full bab -with- a great potential side-power.

This is already possible with existing options--you don't even have to leave the core rulebook, though it certainly helps--but I agree that one shouldn't make it too easy.


The old 3.5 book Unearthed Arcana had an option for building characters using three "generic classes. You would start as either an Expert, Spellcaster or Warrior as the main chasis. Class features such as Evasion or Smite Evil were turned into feats with various prerequisites. I suggest looking into this as a basis for what you're trying to build.

http://dndsrd.net/unearthedNewClasses.html

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Homebrew and House Rules / Custom *Everything* Campaign - Advice? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.