We're getting 3 new classes... which means 3 new iconic characters... which might lead to 3 new races?
Ok, little disclaimer: the Alien Archives offer TONS of new races, in addition of what the APs offer. I wouldn't mind having 3 races being added as core races though ;)
I can see a Drow Biohacker, a Shobhad Vanguard and a Ryphorian Witchwarper :)
I wouldn’t expect new core races in any new book, since that’s not going to be, well, the core rulebook.
Iconics of existing non-core races? That could happen, either with these classes or in the future. I’d kind of expect them to take the opportunity to show some variety in the core races first, but that’s just speculation.
Skittermander witchwarper is probably a given.
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Pathfinder never had a noncore race as an iconic, I don’t expect anything different for Starfinder. It’s certainly not a given, it took a new addition and upgrade to core race for a goblin iconic to happen.
For the sake of pedantry : there were the evil iconics, some of them being non-core races. But yeah, very much a corner case.
To the point: isn't a core race a race from the crb's main group by definition ? If not, what makes a core race ?
I half expect a skittermander, since they've become SF's mascot, even though them being the free rpg day heroes is enough for me.
I actually hope at least one of the new iconics will be from one of the truly weird/non-humanoid races.
Give me a scyphozoan biohacker with a focus on small arms.
You can't prove all iconics are not astrozoans.
It’s the Lazav debate all over again!
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Starfinder drops new playable races like tic-tacs. I wouldn't be surprised if Starfinder embraced a more exotic set of iconics.
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It's more likely that we'll see the Legacy races as iconics. They're already in the core book.
I could definitely imagine a Draelik being the iconic Vanguard, especially considering their connection with negative energy
I hope that the iconic biohacker could be an Ikeshti, but I don't think paizo would go with it. I could definitely see a drow being either a biohacker or a witchwarper though.
I'm unsure if they're going to use another core race aside from human, since all of them are already used, but I hope they expand to different races. That being said, I think the legacy races are going to be used, probably the dwarf for vanguard, gnome for bio hacker, and elf for witchwarper.
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If we're going to have extra "core" races, I would prefer them to be races that have played a significant role in the Pact Worlds/Veskarium and that you would not be terribly surprised to run into more.
* Ryphorians get around quite a bit through among others the Skyfire Legion.
* Skittermanders make for a good second race from the Veskarium.
Legacy races
I hope not.
They add nothing to the "Cantina" feel that Starfinder strives towards.
If anything, I'd prefer Pact World races, such as Astrazoan, Bantrids, Barathu, Borais, Contemplative, Dragonkin, Formian, Haan, Ikeshti, Kalo, Khizars, Maraquoi, Ryphorian, Sarcesian, Shobhad, SROs, Trox, Urog, and Verthani.
I'm guessing Ryphoria, Barathu and Verthani are the most likely, due to their sheer number.
But if they stick to the Pact Worlds book, Astrazoan, Borais and SROs would fit a lot of cliches of science-fantasy very nicely.
If we're going to have extra "core" races, I would prefer them to be races that have played a significant role in the Pact Worlds/Veskarium and that you would not be terribly surprised to run into more.
* Ryphorians get around quite a bit through among others the Skyfire Legion.
* Skittermanders make for a good second race from the Veskarium.
Barathu really should wind up being a core race as well. If you look at the pact worlds they have both more population and more powerful influence than just about any of the other races. They control two gas giants and their associated moons. It seems odd things like ysoki are a core race but they are not given the ysoki really don't control anything other than some settlements on akiton.
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Well, ysoki get everywhere. And they've been migrating across the universe since before the Gap. It's not just power or controlling a single planet that qualifies you as a core race. It might even be a hindrance, races that are content to stay home make for poor core adventurer races.
That said, barathu are a possibility. Verthani were already starfarers before the Gap as well and they're an advanced yet relatively comprehensible civilization. Sarcesians are not so organized but they're natural starfarers as well. Having a core Large race might help artists focus on drawing more accessible maps, too. 5ft corridor hell is bad for parties with a lot of medium PCs but it's even worse for large ones.
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Legacy racesI hope not.
They add nothing to the "Cantina" feel that Starfinder strives towards.
*Ahem!*
Charli Poshkettle raises a pink eyebrow. "Gnomes are very much part of the Cantina, you know. If you look carefully enough, we're everywhere in the canon."
She clears the holographic screen of her tea stand to reveal several famous Starfinder gnome sightings:
We're all over Castrovel, Absalom Station, the Diaspora, Triaxus... If it's weird and dangerous, we're there!
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If we're going to have extra "core" races, I would prefer them to be races that have played a significant role in the Pact Worlds/Veskarium and that you would not be terribly surprised to run into more.
* Ryphorians get around quite a bit through among others the Skyfire Legion.
* Skittermanders make for a good second race from the Veskarium.
I'll second the votes for races strongly connected with the Pact Worlds and Veskarium. Ryphorians and Skittermanders are great starting choices.
Here are more that I would like to see for iconics:
I think skittermanders would probably do better becoming a core race when they eventually do a veskarium book as they could do core races from the more populace ones there. Since we are still mostly focused on the pact worlds major pact world players should be the ones listed.
Barathu seems a no brainer given how big of a foot print they have compared to other races.
The people from triaxus and Verces likely also should be core. The ones from verces are some of the earliest starfarers in the pact worlds.
One thing I find interesting is that the kathsha are a core race when given how tiny their overall population seems to be even bumping into one when not on their world ship would be a super rare occurrence.
One thing I find interesting is that the kathsha are a core race when given how tiny their overall population seems to be even bumping into one when not on their world ship would be a super rare occurrence.
At 4% of the population of Abasalom Station, there are twice as many Kasatha living on Abasalom Station as there are on the Idari. There are almost as many on Skydock, one space platform on Verces, as on the Idari.
While those are the only three settlements in Pact Worlds that list percentages of Kasathan population, it's a safe bet that there are small expatriot communities all over the place, and they have an important military, social (especially in Solarian circles), and maybe technological (they make the best power armor) role in the Pact Worlds despite their small numbers.
Post Drift travel I imagine lots of Kasatha from the homeworld who couldn't fit on the Idari moved to the Pact Worlds after the Idari won them political rights there and established a foothold.
I wouldn't be too surprised to see a dragonkin skyfire legionnaire as the vanguard. Fits the defender idea decently and looks cool. Don't think we'll get an actual large iconic, though.
Drow biohackers have to be plentiful, but too evil for an inconic.
Realistically, Ryphorians and SROs seem the most likely to me, assuming we actually get non-crb races.
Recognizable, not too weird and classic sci-fi feel.
I don't think SRO pregen is the most likely, just because of those racial immunities.
"Gnomes are very much part of the Cantina, you know. If you look carefully enough, we're everywhere in the canon."
I was talking about giving the spotlight to new and significant races, differentiating Starfinder even more from Pathfinder - legacy races won't help in that aspect at all.
There already are more legacy races in the adventures than I care for.
The first NPC introduced in the first Adventure Path in Starfinder is a friggin' dwarf.
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I'm a bit ambivalent about barathu as a core-ish race. On the one hand they have a big footprint in the setting. On the other hand, they're rather odd. Their splitting/separating nature is rather hard to approximate with a rules system focused on individual PCs. They'd also likely prefer starships optimized for dwellers on gaseous planets.
Ryphorians and verthani seem like obvious extra iconic races. Although their disadvantage is that they're almost too normal. Humanoid, no really weird distinguishing abilities. With the peace on Triax the ryphorians lose one of their big causes. Verthani's "one extra implant" ability also fights a bit with androids' "one extra armor upgrade" for conceptual space.
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I was talking about giving the spotlight to new and significant races, differentiating Starfinder even more from Pathfinder - legacy races won't help in that aspect at all.
There already are more legacy races in the adventures than I care for.
The first NPC introduced in the first Adventure Path in Starfinder is a friggin' dwarf.
Charli shrugs. "I guess I can't disagree with you. As the proud head of the Manifold Host welcoming committee, I'm all about welcoming new races into the Society. Still... If you want to travel through the drift, you're relying on the gift of a part-gnomish god! One third of Triune is made up of Brigh, after all." She grins. "You'll just have to deal with one or two of us being underfoot at all times."
★--- ★ --- ★ --- ★
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Look, I think we can all agree that what needs to happen is playable stats for the dirindi & sazarons.
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Look, I think we can all agree that what needs to happen is playable stats for the dirindi & sazarons.
Biggest letdown in AA2. They're the biggest hole in the race layout as it is now.
Want to cast my vote in with a vote for a Ryphorian, Barathu, and Skittermander iconic as well. I love the idea of a Skittermander Witchwarper who's decided that the best way to help people is to disrupt the fabric of reality itself - and all the hilarious hijinks that would ensue with that. Like, if friendly Stitch became a Q.
A Barathu Biohacker also seems appropriate, considering that culture's leading role in the Pact Worlds' bioengineering industry. Would be cool to get a better look at their culture, considering they're one of the oldest spacefaring civilizations in the Golarion System. And they'd be the first non-humanoid alien to make iconic.
Lastly, super enthused for a Vanguard Danese backstory. Raia's Skyfire Legion boyfriend needs to have his story told!
Well, ysoki get everywhere. And they've been migrating across the universe since before the Gap. It's not just power or controlling a single planet that qualifies you as a core race. It might even be a hindrance, races that are content to stay home make for poor core adventurer races.
This whole issue was made even more confusing when it was confirmed last wednesday that a vast proportion of the human population in the Pact Worlds is actually being warehoused on Aballon. I am really waiting for the hows and whys there.
Look, I think we can all agree that what needs to happen is playable stats for the dirindi & sazarons.
As someone playing a Lashunta who grew up on Roselight and Arkanen and truly dislikes being in Castrovel (huge insects, intelligent fungi, psychic crowding), I know very little about my homeworld except that I speak its language. Is Bethedan a psychic only language as the Barathu mother tongue? How does that work for non psychics?
Look, I think we can all agree that what needs to happen is playable stats for the dirindi & sazarons.As someone playing a Lashunta who grew up on Roselight and Arkanen and truly dislikes being in Castrovel (huge insects, intelligent fungi, psychic crowding), I know very little about my homeworld except that I speak its language. Is Bethedan a psychic only language as the Barathu mother tongue? How does that work for non psychics?
It's unlikely that Brethedan is a telepathic language (or at the very least, it has a written and spoken form), considering any PC can learn and speak the language without possessing any psychic ability. For languages that require certain abilities, there's usually some form of technology you can get to use it (like the Anacites' shortwave receiver-transmitter). Considering Barathu were one of the first starfaring civilizations in the Golarion System, I'd assume they developed their own spoken language after a while to facilitate trade and other interactions offworld.
As for Aballon's human population, it sort of makes sense. Absalom Station itself is only 5 miles in diameter, so fitting an entire species worth of population isn't really doable. Humans may have migrated to Akiton en masse, but after the thasteron bust, migration may have peaked, and numerous inhabitants probably moved off. Castrovel seems to have a much more cloistered culture, so I doubt their migration policies would have been overly generous. Verces, I imagine, would have been a popular spot, albeit an expensive one (judging by population statistics for two of its most popular locales, humans may make up as much as 10% of Verces' current population). Aballon, on the other hand, is willing to take anyone in, set them up with a job, a stipend, place of residence, and anything they need: all a person needs to do is show up at the doorstep. For struggling families and individuals throughout, that might seem pretty attractive.
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My vote would be for the Iconics to be SFCRB races,
Vanguard Dwarf
Biohacker Human
Witchwarper Shirren
Of course like the rest of the Classes I'd love to see a spread with several pregens listed in the Class Section with full art to accompany them, and I think it's ok to put NON SFCRB Races there but I'm not sure how cross-source referencing works for SF quite yet.
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My vote would be for the Iconics to be SFCRB races,
Vanguard Dwarf
Biohacker Human
Witchwarper Shirren
Of course like the rest of the Classes I'd love to see a spread with several pregens listed in the Class Section with full art to accompany them, and I think it's ok to put NON SFCRB Races there but I'm not sure how cross-source referencing works for SF quite yet.
Humans and Shirren have Navasi and Bug Dad, er, Keskodai already, though.
I don't see what is wrong with drawing from the Legacy races for the new Iconics. I get that people want the cantina feel, but iconics should be more about accessibility. You get the Legacy races from the core book, and they're easy to wrap your head around.
And yes, gnomes are a part of the cantina. I have to put my drink down somewhere, and they're just the right height.
Humans and Shirren have Navasi and Bug Dad, er, Keskodai already, though.
I don't see what is wrong with drawing from the Legacy races for the new Iconics. I get that people want the cantina feel, but iconics should be more about accessibility. You get the Legacy races from the core book, and they're easy to wrap your head around.
And yes, gnomes are a part of the cantina. I have to put my drink down somewhere, and they're just the right height.
There's nothing at all wrong with that. I'd love to see a Gnome iconic in Starfinder. I'd just personally prefer other unexplored aliens make the jump to iconic first. Partly because they give us a peak into the personality of major Pact Worlds cultures that a short few paragraphs in an Alien Archive can't - but also partly because I think aliens play a much more important role to Starfinder's design than alternate races did in Pathfinder. In Pathfinder, players were expected to purchase a separate book if they wanted to play someone with an ancestry other than the big seven's. In Starfinder, those new races come for free with each Alien Archive - a book whose product page advertises more features for players than even for GMs. It's hard to play a Starfinder session without an Alien Archive, and even if you only use the APs, new playable races are flooding in through that outlet almost every issue. Extra playable races are almost assumed to be a built-in feature for Starfinder, especially considering there are so fewer books to keep up with. This makes non-core alien races a lot more accessible for Starfinder than for Pathfinder, which is appropriate for a space opera setting. It makes sense for the iconics to similarly advertise this very nearly indispensable branch of the Starfinder game.
Also, I really just want to learn more about these races. They play such a huge role in the setting, and yet relatively little time's been devoted to them so far. Legacy races, on the other hand, have been explored for years and years (and already have their own iconics elsewhere). I'm hungry for something new.
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Humans and Shirren have Navasi and Bug Dad, er, Keskodai already, though.
I don't see what is wrong with drawing from the Legacy races for the new Iconics. I get that people want the cantina feel, but iconics should be more about accessibility. You get the Legacy races from the core book, and they're easy to wrap your head around.
And yes, gnomes are a part of the cantina. I have to put my drink down somewhere, and they're just the right height.
There's nothing at all wrong with that. I'd love to see a Gnome iconic in Starfinder. I'd just personally prefer other unexplored aliens make the jump to iconic first. Partly because they give us a peak into the personality of major Pact Worlds cultures that a short few paragraphs in an Alien Archive can't - but also partly because I think aliens play a much more important role to Starfinder's design than alternate races did in Pathfinder. In Pathfinder, players were expected to purchase a separate book if they wanted to play someone with an ancestry other than the big seven's. In Starfinder, those new races come for free with each Alien Archive - a book whose product page advertises more features for players than even for GMs. It's hard to play a Starfinder session without an Alien Archive, and even if you only use the APs, new playable races are flooding in through that outlet almost every issue. Extra playable races are almost assumed to be a built-in feature for Starfinder, especially considering there are so fewer books to keep up with. This makes non-core alien races a lot more accessible for Starfinder than for Pathfinder, which is appropriate for a space opera setting. It makes sense for the iconics to similarly advertise this very nearly indispensable branch of the Starfinder game.
Also, I really just want to learn more about these races. They play such a huge role in the setting, and yet relatively little time's been devoted to them so far. Legacy races, on the other hand, have been explored for years and years...
Not to go too far off topic but this is largely why I'm hoping for an Advanced Race Guide/Inner Sea Races esque book for Starfinder; there are so many races for which we have so little information on that I would like to see expanded.
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what is a 'core race' in Starfinder?
I mean... we got 7 races in the frontmatter of the Core Rulebook... but they just got a 2 page spread. we got as much text regarding the 'legacy' races in the back of the book. In the Alien Archives, playable races have received as much text material as the core races at times.
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Starfinder Society Organized Play keeps opening up new races all the time. Just by playing, there are a very large number of races that you can pick up in SFS.
A more interesting question for me would be: what races would you want to add to the list of Always Available races in SFS? I'd like to see more of the populous SFS races in the Pact Worlds be always available:
I'm debating whether Nuars should be on the always available list. Their racial package is pretty strong. Still, they are native to Absalom Station, and I've have had such fun with Magical Mu that I don't want to deny that to other players! At my home location to play, nuars are ubiquitous because most of our players went off to GM at a couple local conventions, and nuars were offered two conventions in a row, to everyone's delight. So we have a small herd of nuars, and it hasn't broken anything.
Who would be part of your always available races, and why?
Hmm
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what is a 'core race' in Starfinder?
I mean... we got 7 races in the frontmatter of the Core Rulebook... but they just got a 2 page spread. we got as much text regarding the 'legacy' races in the back of the book. In the Alien Archives, playable races have received as much text material as the core races at times.
I suspect the idea is that, by designating them "core races", they will then become automatically available for Starfinder Society play.
Honestly, I think this is a fairly terrible reason to make decisions about which species to emphasize in future supplements. Giving narrative focus in a splat book does not magically make a species more suitable for easy organized play. If people want new species to become easily available for Society games, they should advocate that Society loosen its rules, rather than trying to force the matter via the actual RPG supplements.
SFS is exactly the reason.
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Starfinder Society Organized Play keeps opening up new races all the time. Just by playing, there are a very large number of races that you can pick up in SFS.
A more interesting question for me would be: what races would you want to add to the list of Always Available races in SFS? I'd like to see more of the populous SFS races in the Pact Worlds be always available:
Ryphorians -- Triaxus is an interesting world to call home, and ryphorians are ubiquitous and fairly well balanced. Barathu -- A really out-there race but also not too overpowered, and really well-represented in the Pact Worlds. Formians -- The third power house in Castrovel. Verthani -- Heck, if the Stewards started on Verces, why not? I'm debating whether Nuars should be on the always available list. Their racial package is pretty strong. Still, they are native to Absalom Station, and I've have had such fun with Magical Mu that I don't want to deny that to other players! At my home location to play, nuars are ubiquitous because most of our players went off to GM at a couple local conventions, and nuars were offered two conventions in a row, to everyone's delight. So we have a small herd of nuars, and it hasn't broken anything.
Who would be part of your always available races, and why?
Hmm
i like just keeping it with the races in the core. you have to earn everything else, although i know that it's been expanded to the legacy races - my main is a half-orc, after all.
i can be a copaxi, a sarcesian, or a halfling through my adventures. that's fun.
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Am I going to be the first person to nominate Skittermander?
Yay for me!
Skittermanders are awesome, but I like the solution that Organized Play came up with for introducing them, because it encourages GMs to run all sorts of different scenarios instead of recycling the evergreens all the time.
Hmm
how do you get a skittermander in SFS?
asking for a friend.
You have to play through or GM the Skitter Shot module, released for free on Free RPG Day 2018. The boon sheet has 24 boxes for which you can cross off one box for playing one scenario, or more boxes for playing Adventure Path modules or GMing at conventions or RSP venues.
You only get credit for playing or GMing unique scenarios once each, so you can't get credit for the same scenario twice on one boon sheet. As Hmm said, it encourages a variety of gameplay.
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Skittermanders are awesome, but I like the solution that Organized Play came up with for introducing them, because it encourages GMs to run all sorts of different scenarios instead of recycling the evergreens all the time.
Hmm
how do you get a skittermander in SFS?
asking for a friend.
You have to play through or GM the Skitter Shot module, released for free on Free RPG Day 2018. The boon sheet has 24 boxes for which you can cross off one box for playing one scenario, or more boxes for playing Adventure Path modules or GMing at conventions or RSP venues.
You only get credit for playing or GMing unique scenarios once each, so you can't get credit for the same scenario twice on one boon sheet. As Hmm said, it encourages a variety of gameplay.
ah. good to know.
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Are there already large races in SFS? If not then I doubt that they will open that particular can of worms with the new iconics.
As much as I would like to see a Dragonkin, its simply another constraint for writing adventures you have to think of. It might even break existing SFS scenarios. Against the Aeon Throne at least acknowledges the possibility of large PCs (and they still cause problems), but not sure if the SFS scenarios did the same.
Additionally, Dragonkin are not humanoid, and thus immune to some stuff most others core races are not. Another thing to keep in mind when writing adventures.
Same applies to Barathu and they can also fly from level 1, way before jetpack level.
So I aggree that Ryphorian and Verthani are the most obvious choices.
sarcesians are large. also i think the walrus-people are large.
Skittermanders are awesome, but I like the solution that Organized Play came up with for introducing them, because it encourages GMs to run all sorts of different scenarios instead of recycling the evergreens all the time.
Hmm
how do you get a skittermander in SFS?
asking for a friend.
You have to play through or GM the Skitter Shot module, released for free on Free RPG Day 2018. The boon sheet has 24 boxes for which you can cross off one box for playing one scenario, or more boxes for playing Adventure Path modules or GMing at conventions or RSP venues.
You only get credit for playing or GMing unique scenarios once each, so you can't get credit for the same scenario twice on one boon sheet. As Hmm said, it encourages a variety of gameplay.
Now explain it as if I have no experience with SFS or PFS, and I'm five. :-)