>>Ask *Michael Sayre* ALL your Questions Here!<<


Off-Topic Discussions

201 to 250 of 421 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | next > last >>

1 person marked this as a favorite.

What are you doing during the quarantine? And what are you NOT doing?

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

2 people marked this as a favorite.
the xiao wrote:
What are you doing during the quarantine? And what are you NOT doing?

Doing:

1) Working from home
2) Cooking more
3) Looking forward to Luis transferring our Return of the Runelords game to Roll20
4) Playing (and almost done completing) the Langrisser collection on Switch.
5) 3pp and contract work.
6) Watching Tiger King on Netflix
7) Promoting freelancers and 3pp products on Facebook
8) Playing the Trials of Mana remake demo
9) Playing the Final Fantasy 7 Remake demo
10) Washing my hands a lot

Not doing:

1) Leaving the house except to obtain food or walk the dog
2) Playing table-top games :(
3) Receiving my Kickstarter copy of Grand Guilds for the Switch because apparently they ran out of US region codes
4) Shaking hands
5) Convention planning

So, mostly just keeping busy as appropriate for the times :)


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I LOVE trials! I was/am crazy about it and even wrote a hack of the Returners Final Fantasy RPG based on the Seiken Densetsu series... alas, I lost my files, and I vaguely remember some of the things like races (Jumi for example, plus demi-humans like succubus). Oh my teen years LOL!

Stay safe people!


1 person marked this as a favorite.
the xiao wrote:

I LOVE trials! I was/am crazy about it and even wrote a hack of the Returners Final Fantasy RPG based on the Seiken Densetsu series... alas, I lost my files, and I vaguely remember some of the things like races (Jumi for example, plus demi-humans like succubus). Oh my teen years LOL!

Stay safe people!

Oh, that's a shame!

I'm trying to run an FF RPG game on Discord based on a combination of Cortex Rules (ala the Firefly RPG), and FFT formulae, but in a world more (loosely) based on FF 13/7/15/8/10 (two of which I haven't run).

It's fun so far! (I'm just planning stuff.)

... though one of my two potential players dropped out, because, as much as he loves both FF and friends, he doesn't actually like PbP as gaming platform, so - legit, really! Alas for me!

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Tacticslion wrote:
the xiao wrote:

I LOVE trials! I was/am crazy about it and even wrote a hack of the Returners Final Fantasy RPG based on the Seiken Densetsu series... alas, I lost my files, and I vaguely remember some of the things like races (Jumi for example, plus demi-humans like succubus). Oh my teen years LOL!

Stay safe people!

Oh, that's a shame!

I'm trying to run an FF RPG game on Discord based on a combination of Cortex Rules (ala the Firefly RPG), and FFT formulae, but in a world more (loosely) based on FF 13/7/15/8/10 (two of which I haven't run).

It's fun so far! (I'm just planning stuff.)

... though one of my two potential players dropped out, because, as much as he loves both FF and friends, he doesn't actually like PbP as gaming platform, so - legit, really! Alas for me!

I'm ramping up for the FF7 Remake release next Friday. Going to enjoy a long weekend catching up with old friends. And, coincidentally, I literally have nowhere else I could be that weekend, so I don't need to feel guilty about staying indoors all weekend playing a video game :P


1 person marked this as a favorite.

WOOHOO!

It's funny, I was never as much of an FF7 fan as many (I was a CT/FF36'r, and 7 just so intentionally walked away from much of what I loved, combined with some characterization dislikes), but I was just talking to my wife the other day and realizing... exactly how much I want a FF7Remake. It's weird how hype I am for the idea of it, even though I don't have a PS4 and will probably never have one.

(For the record - I like FF7. I liked a loooooot of it quite a bit. But Avalanche were terrible in many ways, wasn't a fan of the "cussing" (even censored counts, dang it!), I found EmoLoner1stDiskCloud was kind of an unpleasant (yes,IlikedSquall,shush,self-hypocrasy-sensor), nnnnnot a fan of alcohol given its negative impact on my extended family, and... basically a lot of other little things that just were very against my prefernces. Also it was suuuuuper "modern" compared to literally all the FF games I'd played before, so jarring. And then the humongous onslaught of "FF7ISTHEBESTGAMEEVAHHHHH" from new fans and I just... I just couldn't handle it. So I hipster'd up to the max, and disliked it on principle. ... even though I 100%'d the crap outa that game, because it was, in fact, good.)

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I also love FF6! It's entirely possible that my favorite is actually FF4 though; it's just so tragic and I feel like it was really the first big step towards Final Fantasy becoming a more mature franchise.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Michael Sayre wrote:
I also love FF6! It's entirely possible that my favorite is actually FF4 though; it's just so tragic and I feel like it was really the first big step towards Final Fantasy becoming a more mature franchise.

I definitely agree that FF4 is kind of where FF got it's big-boy pants for stories (now that I've actually played 1 and 3)... well, sort of.

See, I think 2 had some of the richest potential story fodder of any of the games, buuuuuuuuuuuuuut they were super-hampered by literally everything in that game.

NES limits, plus weird jobless "use it to upgrade" system (including, "get hit in the face a lot for more hp, later"), a cool (but clunky) password system, deep NPC plots that have zero development 'cause SPACE, and on and on it goes. What little I've played of 2 has convinced me it is the toybox/test drive of various Square genius that would command the field and influence the series for decades to come.

But the first good telling of stories really starts in 4, continues with 5, and (I feel) finds its ultimate expression in 6.

I feel (and felt) that 7 had a really solid story that was... just not as good as 6. While I un-apologetically liked 8, that one has just... just flaws, man. Just. It just. ... Squall looked cool.

I'm still short on my 9 experience, and 10 was much in the same department as 7/8 story-wise in a lot of ways.

And I feel I should clarify this. I feel 7 definitely told its story better and with fewer "Wait whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa" than 4: the whole thing was less jarring, in general. I liked 4's story better as a story (though I've been told I wouldn't like the sequels? I'unno); but by 7 the polish on a lot of the story-telling and world-building techniques was really good, and eight pushed that even further (even though the story was... just... it was... you see... Squall looked cool).

I think X gets a bad rap, but I wasn't the biggest fan of the system revisions it pushed, and I feel there were several slips along the way in the gameplay... of course then we get the absolutely fantastic gameplay but so-unbelievably-ARGFORTHELOVEOFALLWWWHYYYYYYYY X-2 story and I just don't know anymore, it's just... it's just... it... you see... Gunmage Yuna looks cool.

And that's about where I left the series for the longest time. I "recently" (a year ago? Two?) got FF12 and AM SO DAGGUM HYPE that I'll deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeefinately play it some day! ... some day! ... ... some day~...!
(Technically I've played up until the gang maybe almost sort of got together, but then my computer chugged up and died for an unrelated reason, costing me several hours of gameplay, and when I'm ready to play games a combination of "HOW DID I LOSE IT" PTSD (silly as that is) and lack of full out gameplay has often caused me to forget it. sOmEdAy~)

I have zero options for 13, 15, or 7r: none of the systems, none of the cash, and none of the time. I'd kind of like to play 13 as it's widely panned in some regards, but it does have a lot of compelling-looking ideas in play (though I know the story of 13-2, and... okay, S-E, we get it, you hate religion, fiiiiiiiiiiiiine; but I still might play it), and I kind of think I'd love 15 from most of what I know about it.

Ah, well. There's always next eternity!

FFT IS THE BEST THOUGH, FOREVER

uh, i mean, Have a nice night~!

Grand Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

I should sit down and play through the ones I never finished while we're in this mess.

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

1 person marked this as a favorite.
TriOmegaZero wrote:
I should sit down and play through the ones I never finished while we're in this mess.

There are worse uses of time.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

FF4 started the major dramatic moments with the sacrifices.

For me, FF4 messed up the sacrifices of most characters by making them false... in that way, FF6 made the two major deaths not quite as powerful by making them NPCs... my favorite sacrifice is FF5's Galuf... THAT is how you create tension with the limited visuals back then.

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Unrelated to Final Fantasy (beyond the fact that I'm taking a break from my binge of Final Fantasy 7 Remake to post this), my first Pathfinder Second Edition class, a port of my PF1 class the luchador, is now available on DriveThruRPG!


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Wooo!
And how is FF7R?!

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Tacticslion wrote:

Wooo!

And how is FF7R?!

I'm digging it. Mechanically it's like a hybrid of the original game and FFXV (though the summons are like a cross between FFX and FFXV summons), and the story is focused on really bringing the world to life by letting you spend a lot more time interacting with Midgar and its people. Boss fights are big, dynamic affairs, and each of the characters has their own interesting combat abilities and dynamics.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Awesome!


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Tacticslion wrote:
the xiao wrote:

I LOVE trials! I was/am crazy about it and even wrote a hack of the Returners Final Fantasy RPG based on the Seiken Densetsu series... alas, I lost my files, and I vaguely remember some of the things like races (Jumi for example, plus demi-humans like succubus). Oh my teen years LOL!

Stay safe people!

Oh, that's a shame!

I'm trying to run an FF RPG game on Discord based on a combination of Cortex Rules (ala the Firefly RPG), and FFT formulae, but in a world more (loosely) based on FF 13/7/15/8/10 (two of which I haven't run).

It's fun so far! (I'm just planning stuff.)

... though one of my two potential players dropped out, because, as much as he loves both FF and friends, he doesn't actually like PbP as gaming platform, so - legit, really! Alas for me!

Ran our first online game today! Worked out well, so far! We have... not gotten into a battle yet, though we’re about to! Fun times... fun times...


1 person marked this as a favorite.

(Also got another player.)


Hey, so, you FF5 fanbois, it seems I forgot something rather significant (as I was skimming the FF wiki for my game), and nothing really clarifies, but I'm asking:

Super Mega End of Game, like Post-Last-Battle, Ending Scene Stuff:

... do the worlds stay fused or one world or whatever?

For whatever reason, in my head I always remembered the separating (okay, if we're being honest, and we should, "we" should note that I actually somehow conflated memories of Chrono Trigger switching between worlds with the "fused world" of the end game and somehow thought the end game consisted of popping from world to world; this obviously isn't true, and I remember the final parts in the Void pretty well, but... look, okay, I just failed at this), but I cannot find any evidence of this.

It's funny, the ending script seems to imply (as they're all together and writing letters and such) that the worlds remain fused, but in my memory the two worlds separated, but everyone could go wherever 'cause meteor unlock powers.

Anyway, I know that's silly, it's just a thing and I was curious if anyone knew. Memory tricks are weeeeiiiiirrrrd.

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Tacticslion wrote:

Hey, so, you FF5 fanbois, it seems I forgot something rather significant (as I was skimming the FF wiki for my game), and nothing really clarifies, but I'm asking:

** spoiler omitted **

Anyway, I know that's silly, it's just a thing and I was curious if anyone knew. Memory tricks are weeeeiiiiirrrrd.

My recollection is that you reunify the worlds permanently, but it's been a hot minute since I last played.


That's fair! :D

I'm probably just wrong, and somehow conflating it with other things.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

How's Southeast handling this lockdown?

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Cole Deschain wrote:
How's Southeast handling this lockdown?

My folks are going a bit stir crazy, but doing well. Juneau, as far as I've heard from friends and family, is holding up relatively well but the other communities were struggling from shut down or diminished ferry service and having trouble getting food and amenities before the pandemic, so what I've heard from friends and family in Angoon, Sitka, and Petersburg hasn't been great. I know some folks were hoping the PFD would help them get their feet back under them and that's not looking very promising right now, as I'm sure you're aware.

So, not great it seems, though I've heard a few people mentioning that the stimulus might at least let them get a truck on a boat and up (or down, as the case may be) to Juneau so they can load up on essentials, and it seems like Juneau is stabilizing at this point. Though I don't really know how well it'll handle a run from the rest of the panhandle looking to stock up when they have some cash in their pockets.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

You guys are all very prayed for!


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Michael Sayre wrote:
So, not great it seems, though I've heard a few people mentioning that the stimulus might at least let them get a truck on a boat and up (or down, as the case may be) to Juneau so they can load up on essentials, and it seems like Juneau is stabilizing at this point. Though I don't really know how well it'll handle a run from the rest of the panhandle looking to stock up when they have some cash in their pockets.

Yeah, it's a little different here on the railbelt... our supply issues have all been self-inflicted

<Political commentary about certain budget vetoes redacted>


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Tacticslion wrote:
Hey, so, you FF5 fanbois, it seems I forgot something rather significant (as I was skimming the FF wiki for my game), and nothing really clarifies, but I'm asking:

Thing is... FF5 worlds were originally one, but was divides in the past. So when you merge them, you are actually returning the world to its natural state. By the way, something similar happens in FF Dimensions, one of the best cellphones/tablets games which are not on console or handheld. I really, really like it and has FF5 vibes.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Oh, and I played 13... the gameplay is awesome (Fang's my waifu by the way). But the rest of game is weird. No towns, heck not even people. No equipment. Summons are vehicles. I enjoyed it at first, and then I rushed to the end just to call it a day... and, and Lightning looked cool, you see? Oh, and the sequels? Thanks but no thanks. Only good thing is the Mass Effect suit you can use. (Now those are some good damned rpgs if there were ever ones. Western rpg at its finest, specially ME2)

I don't play MMORPG so 11 or 14 are a no go for me. 12... I owned it on ps2, my ps2 died along the cards, had to start from scratch in my ps3... it is good, if different. And 15... no thanks. I hear it is good though.


the xiao wrote:
Tacticslion wrote:
Hey, so, you FF5 fanbois, it seems I forgot something rather significant (as I was skimming the FF wiki for my game), and nothing really clarifies, but I'm asking:
Thing is... FF5 worlds were originally one, but was divides in the past. So when you merge them, you are actually returning the world to its natural state. By the way, something similar happens in FF Dimensions, one of the best cellphones/tablets games which are not on console or handheld. I really, really like it and has FF5 vibes.

Sure. That much I remembered! I just somehow thought that the act of

Spoiler:
sealing away the evil required them to be separate (with the reestablishment of the crystals and all and sealing away the void). I mean, I wasn't certain - it was just an impression I had. Obviously not! Just funny memory error.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

(I'm guessing I somehow conflated it with FR's big Sundering or something.)

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

2 people marked this as a favorite.
the xiao wrote:
And 15... no thanks. I hear it is good though.

I actually really enjoyed 15. My wife watched me play it through from start to finish and really enjoyed it as well. It's different than the older FFs, but it was neat to see some of the best innovations it introduced make it into FF7:Remake accompanied by a retro-inclusive ATB system.

At this moment in time, my top 5 FF games (with the caveat that there's a fair bit of fluidity in this list based on which games I've played most recently) 8are:

FF4
FF6
FF7
FF15
FF7:R

Tactics gets honorable mention as strong runner-up; the main thing keeping it off the list is that I love grid-based tactical RPGs, but there are other games of that style I like more than FFT.

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Tactics Ogre maybe?

Fell Seal has gotten praise for being in the spirit.

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

1 person marked this as a favorite.
TriOmegaZero wrote:

Tactics Ogre maybe?

Tactics Ogre is good. I also like the OG Shining Force games, a healthy swath of the Fore Emblem games, and as recently mentioned I played the Langrisser remasters on Switch and really appreciated their approach to tactical combat and well. It's a style of game where there are just so many ways for a given team of developers to mold the format and make it their own. I recently started Grand Guilds on the Switch after backing the Kickstarter, and they also do the grid-based tactical RPG formula with some cool hooks, including attack options with movement components and a car-based ability system.

Shining Force on the Sega Genesis was the game that made me realize how much I love grid-based combat and fantasy settings way back when I was like 8 years old though, so it'll always have a special place in my heart.

Oh, and on a completely different but ancillary topic, anyone want to chat about why I think Final Fantasy 13 was the first entry in the main franchise (not including the Tactics and MMO entries) where the hero of the story and the player-controlled protagonist were the same person?

Grand Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

I downloaded Langrisser for iPad but it hasn't really grabbed me. Maybe it's the format change.

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

1 person marked this as a favorite.
TriOmegaZero wrote:
I downloaded Langrisser for iPad but it hasn't really grabbed me. Maybe it's the format change.

I like that it uses simplicity to create depth. Making your class changes also unlock new unit types you can recruit is a really simple but clever way to introduce tactical variation and variety. I also like that one of the things that separates the grunts from the main characters is that the main characters all have command auras you can stack various effects on. I'm big on battle leaders, warlords, etc. whose primary power is "I make other people better in specific, customizable ways."

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Have you played any of the FF Tactics: Advance games?

Grand Lodge

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

I love them all.


Michael Sayre wrote:
Oh, and on a completely different but ancillary topic, anyone want to chat about why I think Final Fantasy 13 was the first entry in the main franchise (not including the Tactics and MMO entries) where the hero of the story and the player-controlled protagonist were the same person?

I’d certainly love to hear your thoughts, even if I don’t agree! (At present - we must see how convincing you are! Also, does this compare to other similar games’ story narratives, both differing and similarities? Also, - something else, I got distracted by children passing through and asking questions, but maybe later!)

Could be a really cool concept, and even if I disagree, nothing wrong with that! :D


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Meh... sorry Michael but the only good thing about Lightning is her design.

For Tactics games, I really enjoyed Tactics Ogre for the PSP, although like many jrpgs it is incredibly broken the longer you play.

My fave game, however, is Wild Arms XF, it has the best class system, hands down, at least in my opinion.

Newer games... I played Regalia and man oh man I didn't want it to end. It is so, sooo well made. Banner Saga's simplicity and brutality is appreciated. And while I have Fell Seal, I haven't played it yet, since I'm waiting for the expansion to get released.

Aaaand... the one I'm the most excited about, is Iron Oath.

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

2 people marked this as a favorite.
the xiao wrote:
Meh... sorry Michael but the only good thing about Lightning is her design.

Oh, I don't particularly care for Lightning, but structurally she's the first time that the primary character you actually control is also the hero of the story.

In FF1, there is no primary protagonist. FF2 and FF3 are largely the same boat. FF4 you're tricked into thinking Cecil is the hero, but he's not, Rydia is (with Rosa making a strong play for second). FF5 Bartz and the crew are just finishing up what the real heroes started; Galuf is the closest thing to the hero of that run. In FF6, Terra, Celes, and Edgar are all close to being the main hero, but the structure of the game means there's no clear winner. Aerith is the hero of FF7. Squall is *not* the hero of FF8. Dagger is the hero of FF9, not Zidane. Yuna is the hero of FF10, not Tidus. Ashe is the hero of FF12, not Vaan. Lightning in FF13 is the first time where the person you spend the largest amount of time controlling is also the person the story is actually about and the person whose actions make them the hero of the story portrayed.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Oh I get it now.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

If you could play with a full 4-character party (in PF1), what race/class combos would you use?

If you were to game-master a 1 race campaign, what race would it be and why?


4 people marked this as a favorite.

Before we begin, allow me to clarify, that, though I lay down arguments and disagreements, that in no way undermines anyone's particular views or concepts. Rather, it's meant to be a mutual discussion of rationalization and enlightenment, and whether an agreement is ever reached or not, that's fine: this is happy fun-time story enjoyment, not "Grarg, I right!" (at least to me, by intent and feeling) - and I apologize if it comes off differently!

UGH: walls of text, sorry. I've spoiled some of it, but, uh... sorry.

Dialogue leading up to here:
Michael Sayre wrote:
Oh, and on a completely different but ancillary topic, anyone want to chat about why I think Final Fantasy 13 was the first entry in the main franchise (not including the Tactics and MMO entries) where the hero of the story and the player-controlled protagonist were the same person?

I wanted to hear it!

And I think it's a cool concept worth exploring!

the xiao wrote:
Meh... sorry Michael but the only good thing about Lightning is her design.
Michael Sayre wrote:
Oh, I don't particularly care for Lightning, but structurally she's the first time that the primary character you actually control is also the hero of the story.

Interesting take!

Before anything else, I'm going to point to this being important:

Michael Sayre wrote:
Lightning in FF13 is the first time where the person you spend the largest amount of time controlling is also the person the story is actually about and the person whose actions make them the hero of the story portrayed.

As that, I think, was the main point of contention I first had when thinking about thing - we're using a different definition of here.

While I'm very okay with using that term for "hero" but also, it's worth keeping in mind that a,

Google search:

hero

Quote:

the chief male character in a book, play, or movie, who is typically identified with good qualities, and with whom the reader is expected to sympathize.

the chief male character in a book, play, or movie, who is typically identified with good qualities, and with whom the reader is expected to sympathize.

(in mythology and folklore) a person of superhuman qualities and often semidivine origin, in particular one whose exploits were the subject of ancient Greek myths.

heroine

Quote:

a woman admired or idealized for her courage, outstanding achievements, or noble qualities.

the chief female character in a book, play, or movie, who is typically identified with good qualities, and with whom the reader is expected to sympathize.

(in mythology and folklore) a woman of superhuman qualities and often semidivine origin, in particular one whose deeds were the subject of ancient Greek myths.

... which expands it, and is more along the lines of what I was thinking of. I'm willing to set that aside, though, as the concept invoked by Michael is an interesting one and worth pondering.

Even sticking with,

Quote:
the person the story is actually about and the person whose actions make them the hero of the story portrayed.

... however, I don't exactly agree, or I'm going to need some amount of expansion to get there!

Michael Sayre wrote:
In FF1, there is no primary protagonist. FF2 and FF3 are largely the same boat.

I find this to be a kind of hand-wavy, "if there's not a singular protagonist, all are discounted"... but I also understand it. I do still think that four in FF1 (though not "characters" in a sense, unless you imagine concepts on them), are certainly the people the story is about and whose actions make them the hero of the story portrayed.

There is a similarly strong argument for 3 at least as individuals (though collectively they express human emotions and reactions, individually they are effectively identical): but, as I understand it, in the re-release they gave them individual personalities - ensemble casting aside, the original makes it hard to define "a" character as a protagonist, though you control the protagonists; I couldn't say for the remake. That said, to some extent, it's akin to arguing about who is the hero in Ninja Turtles (it's the turtles all the way down, by the way).

For two, though, each person is definitive and unique - they have their own traits and elements and characteristics. Each goes through a version of the hero's journey, to some extent, and I could see an argument for any of them. While characterization is light in the game, characterization is solid enough that I'd designate an ensemble cast of heroes. That said, I definitely submit that Firion is "more" the "main character" (as opposed to "protagonist") than Maria and Guy, which allows for the interpretation of "main character/character you play as (most)" =/= "the protagonist-hero" argument (because you play more as Firion, and he's really only 1/3 of the protagonists/heroes).

Regardless of any of this, it's hard to deny any of these people the title of heroism or being heroes.

Admittedly, FF2 is littered with "heroes" - people who are more than willing to sacrifice all to make the world function. That said, I agree that this makes it difficult to posit that anyone is "the" hero.

Michael Sayre wrote:
FF4 you're tricked into thinking Cecil is the hero, but he's not, Rydia is (with Rosa making a strong play for second).

I'd actually love for you to elaborate on this. I can see the argument for Rydia and entirely acknowledge it, but I don't think that excludes Cecil, in particular.

Discounting Cecil's arc as starting as an unwilling villain but transition to leader and hero of the journey feels odd to me (especially as he follows the Hero's Journey^. Further, his actions are definitively who the game is about - you may not "agree" with his actions concerning duty instead of morality, but the purpose of that initial start is to leave the concept of duty for the concept of morality - you are meant to follow through with that and agree are heroic, and they are. Cecil repeatedly undergoes effort to change who he is to be a better person, and his flaws are fundamentally based on caring about others (to the detriment of showing them equality and respect - this is the lesson he submits to, and learns, first respecting the moral agency his king to the point of holding him accountable, then the independence of Rosa and Rydia enough to open to helping them): it is a flaw, but born from his care of those individuals and desire to do no harm to them. The entire conceit about Lunarians (and the plot that spiral from that) fundamentally ties to... everything that's happening, along side his inner darkness, redemption, and ascension.

I'm especially interested in the concept of elaboration about Rosa being a secondary main hero, though!

Again, though, there is ensemble element to the heroism (including Rosa, but also Tellah, Edward, Palom and Porom, Yang, Cid, and Edge), I honestly struggle to see Rosa's from a narrative point of view - there is no denying she is heroic, but her role is often an assistant, support, or objective rather than a "heroic" (general, non-specific, vague term) one, in particular. If she can be defined as a "hero" role, though, I would point that others in the series hold the same distinction.

^ no, literally, this is just me listing the hero's journey, why did I dooooo this:
Call to adventure, refusal of the call {"duty"}, supernatural aid, crossing the threshold, belly of the whale (literally and figuratively), road of trials, meeting a goddess crystal, atonement with the father ambiguous crystal parent, apotheosis, the ultimate boon, the magic flight, rescue from without, crossing the return threshold, and master of two worlds, freedom to live - basically everything but temptation and refusal of the return. Rydia has much the same, which is why I can understand you suggesting her as a hero.

Michael Sayre wrote:
FF5 Bartz and the crew are just finishing up what the real heroes started; Galuf is the closest thing to the hero of that run.

As my memory of this game has recently proven spotty, I'm going to have to ask what you mean, here!

I agree that Galuf is awesome, but Butts is undoubtedly the protagonist. So you've got some agreement there.

That said, Butts has the name "Butts," and also (and possibly even more importantly, if you can believe it), he follows the Hero's Journey to a "T" - starting with refusing the call to adventure, then following, and the game is pretty much a spot-for-spot use of Hero's Journey motifs (very much so like with Cecil and Rydia, though more broadly in several cases) only with Butts.

I would see a solid argument for Lenna or even Faris being heroes of their own individual stories in different ways, following heroes' journeys on their own arcs, but I don't know that it qualifies them as the "hero" of the story. Galuf is in an odd spot of being both mentor and deuteragonist - he's not exactly a mentor to everyone else, but he does given them guidance, focus, and something akin to leadership, leveraging his apparent-experience to help everyone through; similarly his struggle with amnesia and unwillingness to put others in danger (this latter much like Cecil above) solidly lends him toward the heroic role. Further, he does take it upon himself to investigate a new threat or problem - the problem, though, is he-

Spoiler:
... never "finishes" the adventure: instead, his, death, is, much like any mentor, that which-

... inspires and guides the remaining protagonists assisting and inspiring them to fight through to the end.

Krile is a little too "final hour" to really be considered the hero of the story, though she is heroic. Her role is far more similar to Casey Jones in the Ninja Turtles, or T.G. Cid in FFT (who is certainly a hero, but not the protagonist of the story, nor the protagonist of that story), or other similar late-story arrivals who are heroic and aid the heroes, but are not, themselves, of the same quality or same connection to the plot.

Heehee, there's an obvious joke in this (because I'm twelve):
... it's the name Boco. G'night e'rrybody~!

Also Boco is the true hero of the story.

Michael Sayre wrote:
In FF6, Terra, Celes, and Edgar are all close to being the main hero, but the structure of the game means there's no clear winner.

Again, I'd posit that the existence of an ensemble cast doesn't posit a lack of hero that you play. It would hinder the use of the word "the" but not the use of protagonist or hero together.

In general, you broadly agree to the term of hero for whoever it is that you're controlling while you control them (the exception being Terra while slave-controlled, but you're not entirely certain at that point what, exactly, is happening).

On the basis of no "one" hero I'll allow it, though - it would be hard to cite a single individual for the entirety of the story whose actions drive the plot. If we allowed for ensembles I would be less prone to agreeing, but it is honestly hard to posit, as, even though they often act as a group, within the narrative no one in particular is "the" hero, and as a group they are often separated and differently functional at different times: Terra start of driving the plot, Edgar, and eventually Celes join in doing so, but the heroes themselves are "off" for extended periods of time, as others drive it entirely, so it's more of a broad story than able to be focused to a singular point, even more-so than with most "hero" stories in FF.

Michael Sayre wrote:
Aerith is the hero of FF7.

... eeeeeehhhhhhhhhh...

I would allow that the game's story is about her (in a sense) and that her actions are broadly those you're meant to empathize with, but I don't think that it makes her the hero of the story.

She much more serves as a symbol or impetus for things, but she, herself, never really holds up as the central figure around whose actions the story revolves - if it weren't for Cloud, she wouldn't really have been a part of the story at all.

The opening with AVALANCHE aside, morality generally and broadly favors Cloud et. al. (which includes Aerith, but doesn't preclude the others) - there are definitively quibbles within the narrative over whether you are meant to agree with all their actions, but that's more a side-effect of setting and narrative - each of the people are broken, in some way, by the events they go through, though that hardly negates them from being heroes, and a large part of the journey is making up for the mistakes of the past and becoming better people.

The only "unnecessary" characters (for motivations) are Red13, Yuffie, and Vincent. But though Barret and Tifa drive Cloud toward the heroic spotlight, he is not the hero. Cid kind of takes over for a while, but the role always ill-fits him (by his own admission), and it's mostly just a matter of convenience until he can return the mantle to Cloud.

Michael Sayre wrote:
Squall is *not* the hero of FF8.

Heh.

... but neither is Rinoa "we tried mild protests, but no one took us seriously, so let's pay dudes money to kill a man" Heartily.

(What I'm saying is the FF8 narrative is a right mess. I still love the game, though. I do think that Squall is intended as the hero-protag., but, uh... hm. At least he looks cool, though!)

Michael Sayre wrote:
Dagger is the hero of FF9, not Zidane.

I'll accept that, though I've not played through it myself.

Michael Sayre wrote:
Yuna is the hero of FF10, not Tidus.

Hey! That's the tagline! :V

(Also it's fundamentally true.)

Michael Sayre wrote:
Ashe is the hero of FF12, not Vaan.

Well, Ashe, Balthier/Fran, and Basch!

... Vaan is mostly just kind of along for the ride.

(From everything I know and have experienced so far.)

Michael Sayre wrote:
Lightning in FF13 is the first time where the person you spend the largest amount of time controlling is also the person the story is actually about and the person whose actions make them the hero of the story portrayed.

I'll take your word for it! That said,

Spoiler:
... just in reading things, Lightning comes off as the MC, but the heroes come off as the two Oerbas - Fang and Vanille - who, due to their sacrifice end up saving everyone.

... but that's purely and outsider perspective, and isn't informed by in-play experiences.

I would argue that the Warriors of Light for 1 and 3 and Firion et. al. in 2 apply; but even ignoring ensembles, Cecil (albeit with Rydia), and Cloud certainly apply as MC/Protagonist-Heroes, and I feel that you dismiss some other things a bit too freely for my thinking, at present. Fortunately, it actually doesn't matter too much because this is all funtime game talk, rather than serious.

I'd love to hear you expand on some of your ideas. I haven't been talked around, yet, obviously, but I definitely see where you're coming from in several cases. I'd also love for you to use any other comparative examples you can think of to help broaden the ideas you present.

... or don't. I've just been kind of pecking at this post all day while working with kids. It might not be fun to respond, and that's mostly what this is for - fun dialogue. :D

EDIT: several times for coding, word-choice, and to try to get my point or emotion or both across better.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Wall of Text? More like Great Wall of China as text! Too much to comment, but I mostly agree with you, Tacticslion.

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Tacticslion wrote:
I would argue that the Warriors of Light for 1 and 3 and Firion et. al. in 2 apply; but even ignoring ensembles, Cecil (albeit with Rydia), and Cloud certainly apply as MC/Protagonist-Heroes, and I feel that you dismiss some other things a bit too freely for my thinking, at present. Fortunately, it actually doesn't matter too much because this is all funtime game talk, rather than serious.

Oh yeah, I was doing a quick and dirty "establish the hypothesis" laying down of framework rather than a deep dive on making my case. To that effect (and I'm not going to have time to lay the whole argument out here, but I can add a few talking points) :

To start with, I consider the hero to be the person who saves the day. This is the main qualifier for me when considering how I want to answer "Who is the hero?"

To maximize my word count during the time I have available, I'll use the original FF7 as both an example of what I mean and a chance to state why I don't think the hero is Cloud. In FF7, you have a primary threat of "Parties whose actions will destroy the world" in the form of Shinra and Sephiroth. The thing at risk in Final Fantasy 7, as eloquently stated by Barret and others over the course of the game, is the survival of the planet itself. When we look at the cast, Cloud is a hyper-strong amnesiac who is constantly struggling not to be a puppet for one of the world-destroying forces; mostly, he fails at this. Aerith is the last living member of an ancient bloodline who can hear the voice of the world itself, leading her to ultimately activate a materia that only she can use which saves the planet from Meteor. Cloud's primary role in the story is acting as the connection between Aerith and the surviving members of Avalanche, as well as the other dissidents they bring into the fold. If Barret or Tifa falls off the bridge after bombing the reactor, you have almost the same story, sans a love triangle and a huge series of complications. If you make the (admittedly arguable) assumption that Aerith never decides to leave the party if Cloud's not around to abuse her while under Sephiroth's influence, then it's harder for Sephiroth to kill her and mostly the team just wins after Aerith summons Holy.

Now, Cloud has evolved a bit over the years as FF7 has seen technology rise and enable more expression and viable formats for continuing a video game story, but his confusion about who and what he is is part of a clever storytelling device commonly used in RPGs. In an RPG, you need the player to buy into the story both so that they're emotionally engaged and so that they're willing to suspend their disbelief for the twists and turn a magical setting demands. Cloud exists right at the crux of the transition between storytelling styles; previously, if you had a primary character you viewed the story through, they had to have a limited enough personality that their opinions didn't come into conflict with your own. That's one of the reasons Crono in Chrono Trigger is just a blob of pixels; Chrono is defined by the people around him, his personality not an aspect of himself, but determined by your emotional responses to the characters he engages with. Cloud is a little bit of both; at first, he's a name and a sword with very little personality who you interact with the other characters with. He, in fact, doesn't even gain a personality until the story's actual hero (per my argument) is no longer "on screen" and the game needs someone else for you to pin your hopes on. Even then, most of the game after Aerith's death is about Cloud fixing the thing he screwed up so that Aerith's saving of the day doesn't go to waste. Even here, Cloud's regaining of his memories and personality, any contribution he makes that isn't just suffocating in the Lifestream, is due to TIfa's care for him. Tifa and Aerith are ultimately far more key to the plot than Cloud, and Cloud's primary addition to the game is being the guy who got injected with super solider serum that makes him the only one who can beat Sephiroth, who might not be such a big deal if the party's heavy-hitter wasn't an occasional puppet for the bad guy.

So if you strip the story down to its component parts and look at who you can subtract without seeing major changes to the outcomes, most early Final Fantasies with a fixed main character do not have that character as being the one whose actions lead to the desired result, unless maybe they throw most of the complications in first. In FF5, Galuf has been fighting for years before Bartz and the princesses get involved, and they're drawn into the story specifically because they're the fill-ins for Galuf's teammates who are no longer active or alive. If it were a tabletop RPG, they'd be the two new players who came in halfway through a campaign Galuf's player started 5 years ago (which doesn't mean they're not heroes, just that they're not *the* hero, the person who the story revolves around and who serves as the primary method by which the adventure's danger is resolved; Galuf is arguably the one who saves the day and the one the story simply doesn't work without.)


1 person marked this as a favorite.
the xiao wrote:

If you could play with a full 4-character party (in PF1), what race/class combos would you use?

If you were to game-master a 1 race campaign, what race would it be and why?

Le bump? LOL!

Fighter: Sphere-Using Zodiac
Mage: Sphere Caster
Cleric: Radiant
Thief: Interjection Games Assassin

And race... Dwarf and Elf, or children of the night (skinwalker, dhampir, tiefling etc.)


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Tales From the Loop rpg, have you seen it? What do you think?

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

1 person marked this as a favorite.
the xiao wrote:
the xiao wrote:

If you could play with a full 4-character party (in PF1), what race/class combos would you use?

If you were to game-master a 1 race campaign, what race would it be and why?

Le bump? LOL!

Fighter: Sphere-Using Zodiac
Mage: Sphere Caster
Cleric: Radiant
Thief: Interjection Games Assassin

And race... Dwarf and Elf, or children of the night (skinwalker, dhampir, tiefling etc.)

Fighter: Zodiac (solar)

Mage: Abjurer (Grimoire Arcane: Book of Eight Schools variant)
Cleric: Radiant
Thief: Eclipse

Ancestry/Race: Depends on the adventure. I'm a big fan of environmental themes, so if I were to take the above party into any environment of my choice, I might do an adventure set in a world of floating islands and choose a flying race like the suqur from Akashic Mysteries.

captain yesterday wrote:
Tales From the Loop rpg, have you seen it? What do you think?

I have seen it, I like the art style and premise, I have not played it and thus don't have an informed opinion about the mechanics or how it feels for the player to interact with it.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

You sure like your own designs Michael LOL. While a full akashic party is awesome, I would love to see lots of systems in play.

Interjection Games is my stop for weird, innovative systems. And for awesome reworks of stuff already there, Sayre Inc.

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

2 people marked this as a favorite.
the xiao wrote:

You sure like your own designs Michael LOL. While a full akashic party is awesome, I would love to see lots of systems in play.

That's not full akashic! Just three out of four :P

And I mostly just design stuff I want to play, so it's probably not surprising I skew towards that stuff! Especially since I design content way faster than I get to play with it all, lol. I've got a PF2 luchador in my Monday night "office" game so I'm actually getting to enjoy that class in the new system already. Getting to play with your own designs is the reward for putting in the initial design work :)

My new Friday game I'm playing an elf hunter. Not a single piece of that character uses a mechanic I designed, so I don't only play my stuff :P


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I didn't say that, I mentioned you REALLY liked your stuff LOL. Anyway, don't lie, you would have ended picking an akashic race and akashic feats with that abjurer.

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

2 people marked this as a favorite.
the xiao wrote:

I didn't say that, I mentioned you REALLY liked your stuff LOL. Anyway, don't lie, you would have ended picking an akashic race and akashic feats with that abjurer.

I mean, maybe. Timelines are important! I just finished up a (non-akashic) 3pp PF2 ancestry that I'm kind of loving at the moment, so the temptation to backport that for this dream game would be high. Flipside, I have fewer opportunities to play with the stuff I design than I have stuff I designed and want to play with more, so you could be right. A creeper abjurer would be awesome. Then again, I also like dwarves and they have a cool FCB for abjurer... And I'm controlling all 4 of these theoretical characters, right? If I'm controlling all 4 then the abjurer probably isn't akashic, just because I'll definitely have at least two other characters with both akashic races and classes. Gotta maximize my variety and opportunity to play with different mechanics!


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Who is your favorite game designer and why? Where do you get your inspiration from when designing stuff? When you make a new character, do you start with the concept (a noble woodland creature that harnesses magic from nature) or the rules (elf radiant)?

201 to 250 of 421 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Gamer Life / Off-Topic Discussions / >>Ask *Michael Sayre* ALL your Questions Here!<< All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.