Animal Companions, understanding and upgrading them


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


One of my players is a Ranger, and he chose to have a moray eel in Skull & Shackles. I have been studying the chart, and created the beastie, but it is a total wimp. I have already told my player to grab Boon Companion to advance it down the chart some more to where a Druid would be.

I have also looked up the various archetypes, and will recommend some of them. He wants to put a harness on it, and use it to speed himself up underwater. He can temporarily breath underwater via the Infiltrator Ranger archetype on aberrations.

I need help in upgrading the animal companion for him, as he doesn't know much about the game, and I don't know much about rangers and druids.

Handle Animal says you can give an animal a single general purpose, which has a lot of tricks in it. Do those tricks count against an animal's limit? I was thinking to tell him to have it trained as Combat Training as soon as it gets to Int 2. Until then, I figured just having him use his free trick to train it in riding, and then upgrade it later.

After that, he could train it to Seek, Fetch, and Work if necessary, as it would then know every trick in the book. It doesn't get Scent so it can't Track.

The only feats I know the Ranger can take to upgrade the animal companion is Boon Companion, Totem Beast, and various teamwork feats like Outflank.

I figure the moray eel can skate by armor proficiency by the ranger buying mithril chain shirt for it. I will show him the Dire Collar.

I saw a bunch of feats for the animal to take, but honestly most of them didn't seem like they benefited the creature much. I found
Devotion Against Unnatural (he hates aberrations)
Disruptive Companion
Tenacious Hunter
Greater Tenacious Hunter
Narrow Frame (might have to squeeze in a Large eel into a Medium space)
Lithe Attacker
Share Feature
Stable Gallop
Valiant Steed
Ferocious Feint maybe
the 3 armor profs, but the ACP would inhibit Swim a lot, as would Stealth be hit
Extra Item Slot, as the animal only gets 3 to start with.

I also know that if he gets the animal awakened via the spell, he's got to turn it into a sidekick via Leadership, and then it is no longer an animal companion. And there is a friendly Wizard in the party that could cast Mage Armor on the Eel.

Is this everything that he can do to upgrade his animal companion so it can stick with the party and not die instantly?

If it does die, how does the Ranger replace the Eel?


The biggest upgrade you can give the Eel is to bump its intelligence to 3 as quickly as possible (you get 1 point every 4hd it possesses). This frees up the companion to take any feat it qualifies for, not just the ones listed in the Companion entry. It also gives the Companion the ability to understand a language, not very well, but enough that Handle Animal attempts should be few and far between (usually only to "push" the creature).

The ranger could take the feat "Evolved Companion" to grant the Eel some nifty eidolon 1-pt evolutions.


I agree, bumping it's intelligence is huge in terms of making an animal companion more effective. Since the eel gets the grab ability I would recommend one of the following builds

Damage:
Improved Unarmed Strike(1st), Improved Grapple(2nd), Improved natural attack(5th), Deadly Grappler(8th), Greater Grapple(10th), Rapid Grappler(14th), Bushwhack(16th)

Grabbing:
Improved Unarmed Strike(1st), Improved Grapple(2nd), Snapping Turtle Style(5th), Snapping Turtle Clutch(8th), Greater Grapple(10th), Chokehold(14th), Bushwhack(16th)

as far as archetypes go, I'd recommend

Racer, Ambusher, or Charger

These synergize well with the above builds.

edit: It's a DM call as to whether an eel can make full use of the snapping turtle chain since the style feat only grants a bonus if you are in the stance and have a "free hand". But clutch doesn't state that you need a free hand to use it and it's the real reason to take the feat chain.


Why the first feat? It's totally useless to the monster. It's always considered to be armed. Even the Bestiary entry doesn't use that feat. Looks like a useless feat for a feat tax. That's going to be a hard sell to the player. Right now, the Moray eel only has one feat as the Ranger is 4th level.


Piccolo wrote:
Why the first feat? It's totally useless to the monster. It's always considered to be armed. Even the Bestiary entry doesn't use that feat. Looks like a useless feat for a feat tax. That's going to be a hard sell to the player. Right now, the Moray eel only has one feat as the Ranger is 4th level.

Improved unarmed strike can be considered a manufactured weapon. This means that the feat would allow the creature to make iterative unarmed attacks and use it's bite as a secondary natural attack. The upshot of all of this is that it gives it an extra attack. At higher levels it can get more attacks as it's BAB increases.


Mind explaining further? How does the ability to dish out nonlethal damage help his moray eel in a fight, since it just bites whatever and already has secondary attack if the first one hits and gets the auto grab?

Silver Crusade

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It can bite, then lash with its tail as the unarmed strike. Free attack, and don't forget Improved Unarmed Strike allows for either nonlethal OR lethal damage


Val'bryn2 wrote:
It can bite, then lash with its tail as the unarmed strike. Free attack, and don't forget Improved Unarmed Strike allows for either nonlethal OR lethal damage

I seriously doubt the Ranger will ever require the eel to do nonlethal, and it already gets a secondary attack due to the second set of jaws it has. The tail has no damage rating listed.


A few thoughts ...

Suggestion A - taking the following two Feats might be too intensive an investment but if able, they can change the Animal Companion's effectiveness/options for at least two Combats, plus possible scouting.

* [Feat] Stalker's Focus is Totem Beast's sibling, enabling an Animal Companion (or the P.C.) to benefit 1/day from a set Animal Focus for 1 minute, (progressing by Character Level as the effective Hunter Level). This might not seem like much but it is enough for one Encounter per day, and offers an additional option also granted by Totem Beast, (with a restricted usage). They progress at Ch. Lvl.s 8 and 15, including :

Some options:
- Bat : Darkvision 60ft/90ft/ + Blindsense 10ft
- Bear/Bull/Tiger : +2/4/6 Enhancement Bonus to Con/Str/Dex
- Mouse : Evasion/(Ch. Lvl. 12) Improved Evasion
- Owl : +4/6/8 Competence Bonus to Stealth
- Snake : +2/4/6 Untyped Bonus on A.o.O. Attack Rolls; +2/4/6 Dodge Bonus to AC v. A.o.O.

* [Feat]Spirit's Gift allows the P.C. to instantaneously grant the Animal Companion the ability to use a Shaman Spirit's "Spirit Animal" Ability for 1 min./Ranger Level every 24 hours. There are some small but pretty nifty things available (depending on your group's playstyle):

Some options:
- Ancestors : can now Speak and understand a number of Bonus Languages equal to the P.C.'s CHA. [Seems like a good option for teaching Tricks, giving more advanced instructions and better interactions with the entire Party]
- Battle : +2 Natural Armour Bonus to AC
- Bones : Attacks against it have a 20% miss chance
- Life : Gains Fast Healing 1, or increases any existing Fast Healing by +1
- Mammoth : +2 Inherent Bonus to Strength
- Stone : Gains DR 5/Adamantine
- Wind : Resistance 10 Electricity

Suggestion B - if the Animal Companion is difficult to redeem, why not focus on what benefits the P.C. can accrue simply by having an Animal Companion Class Feature? Firstly, the P.C. can utilize the aforementioned [Feat] Stalker's Focus; secondly, they can take [Feat] Animal Soul so that if a Spell/Effect is not able to Target both their original Type and the Animal Type, they have the choice over whether it affects them. For instance, the P.C. no longer needs to be affected by a hostile Charm Person, Charm Person (Mass), Hold Person, Hold Person (Mass), Dominate Person, Reduce Person, Reduce Person (Mass) and so on.


BENSLAYER wrote:

A few thoughts ...

Suggestion A - taking the following two Feats might be too intensive an investment but if able, they can change the Animal Companion's effectiveness/options for at least two Combats, plus possible scouting.

* [Feat] Stalker's Focus is Totem Beast's sibling, enabling an Animal Companion (or the P.C.) to benefit 1/day from a set Animal Focus for 1 minute, (progressing by Character Level as the effective Hunter Level). This might not seem like much but it is enough for one Encounter per day, and offers an additional option also granted by Totem Beast, (with a restricted usage). They progress at Ch. Lvl.s 8 and 15, including :

** spoiler omitted **

* [Feat]Spirit's Gift allows the P.C. to instantaneously grant the Animal Companion the ability to use a Shaman Spirit's "Spirit Animal" Ability for 1 min./Ranger Level every 24 hours. There are some small but pretty nifty things available (depending on your group's playstyle):

** spoiler omitted **...

Uhm, slight problem. This is a Skull & Shackles campaign, so he's choosing an aquatic creature, a moray eel. He mentioned that he wanted to use it to increase his swim speed, so I theorized that he could attach some sort of harness and hold onto it while it swims.


if he is not already set on the eel i would suggest changing to giant squid and here is why:
first, if he harness himself to it, then it's faster, also got 'jet' ;).
then there is the fact it has constrict as racial ability. which (when he get his int to 3+) allow him to get into the final embrace feat tree. ( links :I & II and actually doesn't have to take III to make this work unless he really want too, better use for grappling feats).
this feat tree is priceless when combined with grappling feats, especially rapid grappler .since if it hits twice in a round with it's constrict then the shaken condition (from ii - horror, as fear effects stack unless specifically said not to) is worsen into frightened. no save as well. so it can keep on crushing the enemy without it attacking back.

this works like magic. as when it grapple it draws the enemy close. so even if he break free (while frightened) and try to run he provoke aoo(as it's large and got reach so even with withdrawing - the 2nd 5 ft space that he move out provokes) and it get to hit again + grab + constrict. it can get brutal very fast...


Piccolo wrote:
BENSLAYER wrote:

A few thoughts ...

...
Uhm, slight problem. This is a Skull & Shackles campaign, so he's choosing an aquatic creature, a moray eel. He mentioned that he wanted to use it to increase his swim speed, so I theorized that he could attach some sort of harness and hold onto it while it swims.

D'oh, reading comprehension fail this morning! I focused on the 'wimp'/upgrade, Tricks/utility and Armour references, completely missing the actual question. O.o I can only think of taking the [Feat] Monstrous Companion so as to upgrade to a Hippocampus for its Swim 60ft/starting Large Size (to Ride)/higher Carrying Capacity (as it is treated as if a Quadruped for this)/reference to being easily trained and ridden as a Combat Mount, however its Aquatic/Water Dependency is only a situational upgrade on Aquatic, the +5 to D.C. on Handle Animal for a non-Animal is painful, and your Player is already invested in the Moray Eel. I am not much help today, time for a fizzy drink to wake me up, ha, ha.


Piccolo wrote:
Val'bryn2 wrote:
It can bite, then lash with its tail as the unarmed strike. Free attack, and don't forget Improved Unarmed Strike allows for either nonlethal OR lethal damage
I seriously doubt the Ranger will ever require the eel to do nonlethal, and it already gets a secondary attack due to the second set of jaws it has. The tail has no damage rating listed.

an eel lacks hands. As a result it can not normally wield manufactured weapons which means all it would have is a bite attack as a primary natural weapon.

Without the feat, in theory it could slap at an enemy with it's body as per unarmed strike. This attack would have the following traits.

DMG: 1d3+str non-lethal which provokes an AoO.

The feat makes it so that now the attack becomes

DMG: 1d3+str lethal or non-lethal which does not provoke an AoO.

Sure, it's not an impressive attack but it's in addition to everything else which the eel would normally get.

Edit: If the player still isn't sold on it, They could always take dodge or improved natural armor until the creature gets 2 feats. At that point they can release their current animal companion and pick up a new one, that has improved grapple. Which is arguably the eels' best offensive trick, thanks to gnaw and eventually grab.


I just noticed that the eel has reach. So, another route is to go a trip build with it.

Archetype: Bully

Feats: Power Attack(1st), Improved Trip(2nd), improved natural attack(6th), Greater Trip(8th), combat reflexes(10th), Improved Unarmed strike(13th), vicious stomp(16th)

This build has the advantage of not requiring the animal companion to have an improved int score until fairly late into the game.

To answer your other question about replacing an animal companion it just takes the character 24 hours and they can get a new animal companion if the old one has died or has been dismissed. Assuming a suitable replacement can be found in the area.

Downtime: Replace Your Animal Companion wrote:
If you lose or dismiss your animal companion, you can spend 1 day performing a ceremony to gain a new one. This ceremony requires 24 uninterrupted hours of prayer in the environment where the new companion typically lives (at the GM’s discretion, traveling might add to the downtime requirement if there’s no suitable environment near the settlement).


Something else being overlooked is having the Nonlethal Reach from Improved Unarmed Attack means it can be sneak ahead to knocked out the guard without incurring an AOO.

Also dont overlook equipping it, especially if the party has a Crafter. custom nose-ring/similar for mage armor to increase its Ac with an added Enlarged/Reduction on cmd to resize as needed, +int boost; etc. start where needed most and add-to as can.

Additionally, consider a 1-level Wizard dip and converting the eel to a Familiar: auto-intelligence boost, better scouting ability, etc. Being redefined as a Magical Beast means it can trade a subsequent Hp increase for a template or Class level; Brawler1 or Monk1 gets it the Improved Unarmed Attack free, but more importantly makes its entire -body- a considered a "manufactured weapon" which can then be enchanted per RAW overcoming the body slot limitations. Later adding Aerial Template not only makes it useful out of water but effectively gives the ranger a flying mount.


How the heck do you "trip" an enemy while the both of you are underwater?!


Piccolo wrote:
How the heck do you "trip" an enemy while the both of you are underwater?!

Flip em upside down so they have to spend a move action reorienting themselves.


Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:
Piccolo wrote:
How the heck do you "trip" an enemy while the both of you are underwater?!
Flip em upside down so they have to spend a move action reorienting themselves.

While one can attempt to make a RAW case that you can trip someone underwater in Pathfinder, we do have James Jacobs on record as saying it won't work. And we're not in the Rules forum, so I feel free to pay that.


You can be tripped underwater--so long as you're standing on the ground.


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blahpers wrote:
You can be tripped underwater--so long as you're standing on the ground.

or alternatively, if your opponent is standing in a rowboat and the eel is in the water, it can trip the opponent standing on the rowboat.

But even if the eel and the opponent are both underwater, successfully tripping them should probably cause them to gain the off-balanced condition as per the underwater combat rules.

Aquatic Terrain wrote:
An off-balance creature loses its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class, and opponents gain a +2 bonus on attacks against it.


There's always the straight forward damage build

Feats: Power attack(1st), cleave(2nd), improved natural attack (6th), Cleaving Finish(8th), Vital strike(10th)

and/or the shark style line of feats.


LordKailas wrote:

There's always the straight forward damage build

Feats: Power attack(1st), cleave(2nd), improved natural attack (6th), Cleaving Finish(8th), Vital strike(10th)

and/or the shark style line of feats.

He might go for this. He says he wants it primarily for combat, secondarily for boosting his Swim speed. So far, I've just given it Weapon Focus, but when he hits 5th level he's going to take Boon Companion to give it a huge power boost, and at the same time the eel is going to go Large and increase 10ft speed because of the Elemental Companion Water archetype.

He's considering whether or not to take Leadership or Monstrous Companion at 7th. If he does, he will have two NPC's, meaning we really likely don't need the party Fighter if the second NPC can go on land.

All of this took a huge amount of discussion, as he is picky and he didn't like all the choices. I told him there was a limited amount of aquatic animals and the templates really didn't have much for increasing Swim speed. Also, compared to a PC, most animal companions are speed bumps.


Has he thought about playing a hunter instead?
If the companion is that important, it's like a pet focused ranger. That may be a difference maker.

The Exchange

LordKailas wrote:
Piccolo wrote:
Why the first feat? It's totally useless to the monster. It's always considered to be armed. Even the Bestiary entry doesn't use that feat. Looks like a useless feat for a feat tax. That's going to be a hard sell to the player. Right now, the Moray eel only has one feat as the Ranger is 4th level.
Improved unarmed strike can be considered a manufactured weapon. This means that the feat would allow the creature to make iterative unarmed attacks and use it's bite as a secondary natural attack. The upshot of all of this is that it gives it an extra attack. At higher levels it can get more attacks as it's BAB increases.

The Improved Unarmed Strike feat does not make your natural attacks count as manufactured weapons. That is is a special ability of the monk class.

The eel would somehow need to gain a monk level to do what you are suggesting.


Belafon wrote:
LordKailas wrote:
Piccolo wrote:
Why the first feat? It's totally useless to the monster. It's always considered to be armed. Even the Bestiary entry doesn't use that feat. Looks like a useless feat for a feat tax. That's going to be a hard sell to the player. Right now, the Moray eel only has one feat as the Ranger is 4th level.
Improved unarmed strike can be considered a manufactured weapon. This means that the feat would allow the creature to make iterative unarmed attacks and use it's bite as a secondary natural attack. The upshot of all of this is that it gives it an extra attack. At higher levels it can get more attacks as it's BAB increases.

The Improved Unarmed Strike feat does not make your natural attacks count as manufactured weapons. That is is a special ability of the monk class.

The eel would somehow need to gain a monk level to do what you are suggesting.

I never said it would make it's natural attack count as a manufactured weapon. Even if it did, you can't make secondary attacks with a natural weapon if you've used that appendage associated with that weapon to make an attack with a manufactured weapon.

So, if it had say, both improved unarmed strike and feral combat training, it could make iterative attacks with it's bite, but it couldn't then use that same bite attack as a secondary natural weapon.


Piccolo wrote:
LordKailas wrote:

There's always the straight forward damage build

Feats: Power attack(1st), cleave(2nd), improved natural attack (6th), Cleaving Finish(8th), Vital strike(10th)

and/or the shark style line of feats.

He might go for this. He says he wants it primarily for combat, secondarily for boosting his Swim speed. So far, I've just given it Weapon Focus, but when he hits 5th level he's going to take Boon Companion to give it a huge power boost, and at the same time the eel is going to go Large and increase 10ft speed because of the Elemental Companion Water archetype.

He's considering whether or not to take Leadership or Monstrous Companion at 7th. If he does, he will have two NPC's, meaning we really likely don't need the party Fighter if the second NPC can go on land.

All of this took a huge amount of discussion, as he is picky and he didn't like all the choices. I told him there was a limited amount of aquatic animals and the templates really didn't have much for increasing Swim speed. Also, compared to a PC, most animal companions are speed bumps.

If he's taking the archetype elemental companion (water) anyway, then there's no reason he shouldn't just get a non-aquatic mount. The archetype gives the thing the ability to breathe underwater and a swim speed, putting it on a creature that already has these abilities is a waste.

At the very least, he could replace the mount when it would normally gain the benefits of the template, so he has an eel right now, but something better going forward. Besides, all the animal companion needs to do is pick up a Pearl of the Sirines. It's an unslotted magic item that grants a swim speed of 60. Though, if it has that, it probably doesn't even need the elemental companion template.

Depending on what the creature is expected to do, I would recommend looking at the following (some may not be options since plants and insects require special access)

Strikers
T-Rex (1 bite[2d6], str: 22, spd: 30, AC:+7/+2)[x2 str]
Dimetrodon (1 bite[2d8], str: 20, spd: 30, AC:+3/+2)[Imp Crit]
Ankylosaurus (1 tail[2d6], str: 18, spd: 30, AC: +11/+1)[Stun]
Mokele-Mbembe (1 bite[2d6], 1 tail[2d6], str:24, spd:30, AC:+9/+2)[15ft reach]
Spinosaurus (1 bite[1d8], 2 claw[1d6], str:26, spd:30, AC:+5/+1)
Dragonfly[medium](1 bite[2d6], str:17, spd:80{prft}, AC:+5/+2)[Flyby atk]
Yolubilis Heron[Large](1 bite[2d6], str:21, spd:30, AC:+4/+1)[fly 60{avg}]

Grabbers
Warcat (1 bite[1d8], 2 claw[1d6],rake[1d6], Str 23, spd: 40, AC:+6/+1)[Pounce]
Slithering Sundew (2 slams[1d6+1d3]+C[2d6], Str 20, spd: 20, AC:+3/+2)[Constrict (Acid)]

Rideable Flyers
Bustard[medium](1d6,1d4x2, str:15, spd:50{poor}, AC:+2/+2)
Giant Owl[Large](1d6x2, str:18, spd:60{avg},AC:+4/+2)[Rend]

non-Rideable Flyers
Falcon[small](1d4,1d3x2, str:10, spd:90{good},AC:+1/+3)
Whisper Vulture[small](1d6, str:14, spd:60{avg}, AC:+1/+2)

Swallowers
Gulper Plant (2 vines[1d6], str: 18, spd: 20, AC: +3/-1)[grab,swallow]

The Exchange

LordKailas wrote:
Belafon wrote:
LordKailas wrote:
Piccolo wrote:
Why the first feat? It's totally useless to the monster. It's always considered to be armed. Even the Bestiary entry doesn't use that feat. Looks like a useless feat for a feat tax. That's going to be a hard sell to the player. Right now, the Moray eel only has one feat as the Ranger is 4th level.
Improved unarmed strike can be considered a manufactured weapon. This means that the feat would allow the creature to make iterative unarmed attacks and use it's bite as a secondary natural attack. The upshot of all of this is that it gives it an extra attack. At higher levels it can get more attacks as it's BAB increases.

The Improved Unarmed Strike feat does not make your natural attacks count as manufactured weapons. That is is a special ability of the monk class.

The eel would somehow need to gain a monk level to do what you are suggesting.

I never said it would make it's natural attack count as a manufactured weapon. Even if it did, you can't make secondary attacks with a natural weapon if you've used that appendage associated with that weapon to make an attack with a manufactured weapon.

So, if it had say, both improved unarmed strike and feral combat training, it could make iterative attacks with it's bite, but it couldn't then use that same bite attack as a secondary natural weapon.

I just completely don’t understand what you think this is doing. Do you think that having Improved Unarmed Strike will let the moray eel make an attack with something other than its bite?


Cavall wrote:

Has he thought about playing a hunter instead?

If the companion is that important, it's like a pet focused ranger. That may be a difference maker.

I dunno. So far he's just taken a Moray Eel as of 4th level, and is gonna give up a feat to get Boon Companion to amp it up. He picked out Elemental Companion (water) to increase the speed to 40 Swim.

I think he's going after damage dealing as a primary need, with riding as secondary.

Handle Animal says you can give an animal a single general purpose, which has a lot of tricks in it.

Do those tricks count against an animal's limit?

I was thinking to tell him to have it trained as Combat Training as soon as it gets to Int 2. Until then, I figured just having him use his free trick to train it in riding, and then upgrade it later.

After that, he could train it to Seek, Fetch, and Work if necessary, as it would then know every trick in the book. It doesn't get Scent so it can't Track.


Yes general purposes count for as many tricks as there are in it. They are more just packages to be picked out to make things faster for players to make. A grab bag if you will.


Cavall wrote:
Yes general purposes count for as many tricks as there are in it. They are more just packages to be picked out to make things faster for players to make. A grab bag if you will.

You sure? What's your source?


Belafon wrote:
I just completely don’t understand what you think this is doing. Do you think that having Improved Unarmed Strike will let the moray eel make an attack with something other than its bite?

Yes, that is exactly what it does. In the same way it lets a human do the same. Without the feat a human could headbutt an enemy, but doing so will deal non-lethal damage and provoke an AoO from the enemy. The feat allows the headbutt to do lethal damage and not provoke.


Piccolo wrote:
Cavall wrote:
Yes general purposes count for as many tricks as there are in it. They are more just packages to be picked out to make things faster for players to make. A grab bag if you will.
You sure? What's your source?

It isn't explicitly stated, but it's strongly implied this is the case.

Handle Animal wrote:
An animal with an Intelligence score of 1 can learn a maximum of three tricks, while an animal with an Intelligence score of 2 can learn a maximum of six tricks.

and then later in the skill

Handle Animal: Train an Animal for a Purpose wrote:
If the package includes more than three tricks, the animal must have an Intelligence score of 2.


I'm positive. The source being the core book.

The only thing general purpose does is
A) make it easier for new players to just choose a package and go
B) it is slightly easier to train for general purpose than each trick by itself (a lower dc) though the times are not changed.

In other words the tricks have a common theme making it easier for a pet to understand.

If they didn't count against tricks known then everyone would simply take the best option with the most tricks for free and scam the system. Pathfinder doesn't give one thing for nothing.

In this case the benefit is lower DC to train tricks and the trade off would be that it's a set package of tricks.

The wording is pretty clear.

"Rather than teaching an animal individual tricks, you can simply train it for a general purpose. Essentially, an animal’s purpose represents a preselected set of known tricks that fit into a common scheme".

So yes. I am 100% positive.


Okay, I have been looking at Skull & Shackles, but only the first few books. Does anybody know when you are supposed to take the campaign underwater? There was a brief bit in the first book, but not much.

Also, how the heck do I take the PC's underwater? So far, I am researching various magic items for water use in UE, and trying to find spells to address the various problems of being underwater.

The players will likely need a swim speed, a means of breathing underwater, they have to deal with the cold and pressure of deep water, and a near total lack of light in deep water. All of that is just for survival, it doesn't take into account the huge penalties for fighting underwater (half damage for melee weapons, massive penalties to hit with missile weapons)..

How can the players address these problems? I know Touch of the Sea is available to the cleric and wizard, and that handles swim speed. Water Breathing handles the obvious. Freedom of Movement seems like a bit much to handle the half damage of melee weapons however.

I do have Aquatic Adventures, but they don't list what spells would help fix all the difficulties of adventuring underwater.


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I'll just leave this magic item I created here....

WINGS OF WATER
Aura faint transmutation; CL 5th; Slot shoulders; Price 1,000 gp; Weight —

DESCRIPTION
Long believed to have been gnome in origin, this clear pair of inflatable tubes features little brightly colored stylized fish and dolphins on it, worn on the upper arms.

The water wings grants their wearer a +5 competence bonus on Swim checks, and allows her to take 10 on such checks even if distracted or endangered. However, when the wearer is underwater, the +5 bonus is replaced with a -5 penalty to Swim checks, and the wearer has positive buoyancy. Thus the wearer can swim even in rough seas without much effort.
CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS Craft Wondrous Item, touch of the sea; Cost 500gp.


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The first two spells that come to mind are

Freedom of movement(4th)
Air bubble(1st)

pretty much any polymorph spell(some are even specific to underwater like gift of the deep) and/or alter self would also work.

It really depends on how long term the PC's need to be underwater. Some other spells that could be useful for underwater adventuring.

Batrachian Surge(1st)
Monkey Fish (1st)
Touch of the Sea(1st)
Aboleth’s Lung(2nd)
Animal Aspect(2nd)
Aquatic Cavalry(2nd)
Neutral Buoyancy(2nd)
Slipstream(2nd)
Wicker Horse(2nd)
Aquatic Trail(3rd)
Free Swim(3rd)
Silt Sphere(3rd)
Tail Current(3rd)
Temporary Graft(3rd)
Water Breathing(3rd)
Elemental Mastery(4th)
Life Bubble(4th)
Ride the Waves(4th)
Phantom Limb(5th)
Invoke Deity(6th)
Submerge Ship(7th)
Seamantle(8th)


Where did you get this list? I am going to save it, and check out the spells when I can.


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Piccolo wrote:
Where did you get this list? I am going to save it, and check out the spells when I can.

I put it together by using the d20pfsrd search function and looked for spells that contained the words "swim" and/or "underwater".


LordKailas wrote:
Belafon wrote:
I just completely don’t understand what you think this is doing. Do you think that having Improved Unarmed Strike will let the moray eel make an attack with something other than its bite?
Yes, that is exactly what it does. In the same way it lets a human do the same. Without the feat a human could headbutt an enemy, but doing so will deal non-lethal damage and provoke an AoO from the enemy. The feat allows the headbutt to do lethal damage and not provoke.

just smile and go, hmmm, interesting... 8^)

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